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Offlinemushpunx
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: Dilated]
    #20414965 - 08/13/14 08:39 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Ok I totally get it now. Its basically like adding a clean agar wedge to grains for a better shot at clean spawn
Very cool


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Invisibleeatyualive
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: Dilated]
    #20414974 - 08/13/14 08:42 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Dilated said:
Yeah I read it and was blown away.  I'm definitely going to try this.  Grain prep for me takes up way too much time!  Glad I found that.  I usually remove my jars as soon as the PC is depressurized using an oven mit.. give it a quick shake and let them cool outside the PC.  I know most people don't do that but do you see a major fault in doing it that way?




nope. i do this if there is going to be a long time that the jars will sit prior to me g2g or P2ging the jars. sometimes if i let quart grain jars sit too long, the moisture builds up at the bottom of the jars and i get clumping. most of the time ill take them right out of the pressure cooker straight into the shmuvbox as soon as the pc is cool enough to do so. ill usually shake the jar when i take it out of the pc, loosen the lid and load my shmuvbox. and by that time ive already prepped all my clean area and master for transfer.


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Edited by eatyualive (08/13/14 08:45 PM)

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OfflineDilated
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: eatyualive]
    #20414988 - 08/13/14 08:44 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Do grains need to be @ room temp before noc'n up?  Using any type of method?

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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: eatyualive]
    #20414996 - 08/13/14 08:46 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I soak my rye and WBS, but I don't simmer my WBS. WBS gets soaked, drained, and PC'c. Rye gets soaked boiled, drained/dried, PC'd.

I haven't really put Fooman's to the test, but my prelimenary experiments seem promising, at least with WBS. And your results leave little room for doubt.

I will also try your suggestion with soaking the rye a little longer for Fooman's. I'll just keep watching it to make sure the grains don't start to pop.

I'll be playing around with it this weekend some more. I'm waiting for other stuff anyway.

Being able to prep grains this way would be a Godsend for my schedule.


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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: Dilated]
    #20415005 - 08/13/14 08:48 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I usually wait until the temperature is near incubation temps. which is room temps for me around 78 degrees. yes. others may do it differently. it depends on timing. if its very late at night and i just finished a batch of jars. ill wait till the morning and do the spawning. its usually cool by then. if i know that i have a day gap or so, i don't want the jars to sit in my pc that long in case the grain clumps up. ill wait until the pc is cool enough to touch with the hand, then shake the jars and store in a clean draft free area.


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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: SpitballJedi]
    #20415017 - 08/13/14 08:50 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

SpitballJedi said:
I soak my rye and WBS, but I don't simmer my WBS. WBS gets soaked, drained, and PC'c. Rye gets soaked boiled, drained/dried, PC'd.

I haven't really put Fooman's to the test, but my prelimenary experiments seem promising, at least with WBS. And your results leave little room for doubt.

I will also try your suggestion with soaking the rye a little longer for Fooman's. I'll just keep watching it to make sure the grains don't start to pop.

I'll be playing around with it this weekend some more. I'm waiting for other stuff anyway.

Being able to prep grains this way would be a Godsend for my schedule.




foomans isn't a simmer tek. you bring the water to a rolling boil. then dump the grain in, take it off the heat, put a time on 30 mins. strain out, then load pc. its a hot water bath tek. as far as the rye grain i don't know if it will work. it may take some trial and error on that one. if i were you, id keep things going the way you normally do to keep things fully stocked and just do some small test runs on other stuff your willing to lose. if that makes sense. ive never tried that tek with rye grain and the grain is much thicker. there may be a limit to how long it can withstand the boiled water. i don't know until someone figures it out. wbs works perfectly though.

YEAH DON'T BE A SLAVE TO THE GRAIN



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Edited by eatyualive (08/13/14 08:57 PM)

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InvisibleMush 4 Brains
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: eatyualive] * 1
    #20415028 - 08/13/14 08:52 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I always used to do pf to grain for MS grows, it works great!  I'm glad you posted this, I've seen so many say "Oh that won't work or its risky."  Bullshit!  I've done this throughout the years too many times to count.  Often times I wouldn't even use a SAB for the transfers. 

I'd use two spoons that were merely wiped down with some ISO.  The first spoon would be used to scoop out the dry verm layer, after which it was set aside.  The second spoon would be used for the actual transfer.

IME pf tek jars colonize from spores much quicker than grain, so that's one benefit of this tek.  Anyone who doesn't believe that fact I encourage to take the pepsi challenge and get back to me.  Noc up a pint grain jar and a pint brf jar.

My basic procedure for years would be to knock up 10 pf jars, pick out the fastest colonizer(s) and use it as a master to transfer to grain.

But since I don't have TC next to my name, my 8 years of experience and success isn't valid you see.  Always some noob know it all, freshly registered with no real experience would tell me how it doesn't work or is extremely risky.  My style of growing has always boiled down to practicality, if it works and works well why change?

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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: Mush 4 Brains]
    #20426981 - 08/16/14 12:03 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

here are some better macros of the batch i did today. you can see what the texture and particle size of the scraped pf jar looks like.


here are two different jars after a shake.notice how the mycelia is everywhere. this makes colonization very quick.




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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: eatyualive]
    #20432211 - 08/17/14 11:00 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Here is a day 1 picture of the mycelia from the post above. ill update the original post. this can help you see the growth for the first day. this is 3 different jars for an example.



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Edited by eatyualive (08/17/14 11:00 AM)

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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: eatyualive]
    #20432430 - 08/17/14 12:05 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

eatyualive said:
Quote:

mushpunx said:
Cool tek

What is the benifit to this over just MS inoculation of the grain jars?




its not really a benefit. just something to start with if you only do or have pf jars. ive had issues over the years inoculating grain with syringes. sometimes if i inject too much ill get wetspot bacteria. my contam rate is actually higher using spore syringes directly into quart grain jars. pf jars are just about 100% contam free and super easy to make. its extremely fail safe. for me personally, i store the pf jars in a small fridge for masters opposed to storing the large quart jars. so really for me the benefit is space. i can fit maybe 4 total quart jars in that fridge compared to fitting 24 different pf jars. so i can run lets say i do 1 strain per 4 jars. thats 6 strains at once. each pf jar can turn into 100 quarts.  the jars will usually last a year at minimum with an ok transfer. ive had one strain(Tasmanian) last two years in the fridge on a pf cake with a successful transfer. but grain lasts much longer in the fridge for sure.

also, with age, time isn't plentiful, life gets in the way, its a way of managing your crop and postponing it to fit your schedule.




Time is expensive, you have some great ideas here . Respect for sharing

Edit: just saw your post with the growth after a day of myc.
P2g looks so much diff than G2g or A2g :P guess its the vermiculite

Edited by pawnzy (08/17/14 12:07 PM)

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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: pawnzy]
    #20432488 - 08/17/14 12:18 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

the particles are smaller. yes all the glitter looking speckles are verm. that will disappear after a day.


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Edited by eatyualive (08/17/14 12:44 PM)

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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: eatyualive]
    #20432818 - 08/17/14 01:32 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Thank you for documenting this. I have said in the past that this could be done, but requires skill. Do you think this takes a lot of experience and practice? Would you consider it "noob friendly"?

Personally, I would only recommend P2G if using a lid with a filtered GE hole instead of the dry vermiculite barrier. But, you are a skilled cultivator and if anyone can do it, it would be you.

Are you going to continue to post results all the way to harvest?


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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: SpitballJedi]
    #20432862 - 08/17/14 01:43 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Wow! I thought this was with modified proper lids.

One thing that came to mind, are you doing all this in a schmuvbox?
I thought they operated on the principles of a FH and that you shouldn't
open contamed plates etc in front of the air flow?

Am I missing something vital? :stoner:

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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: spacechildo]
    #20438310 - 08/18/14 04:45 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

day 2 burma



updated op.


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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: SpitballJedi]
    #20438323 - 08/18/14 04:48 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

SpitballJedi said:
Thank you for documenting this. I have said in the past that this could be done, but requires skill. Do you think this takes a lot of experience and practice? Would you consider it "noob friendly"?

Personally, I would only recommend P2G if using a lid with a filtered GE hole instead of the dry vermiculite barrier. But, you are a skilled cultivator and if anyone can do it, it would be you.

Are you going to continue to post results all the way to harvest?




agar work is harder than this. this is simple. thats the point.
the dry vermiculite barrier is irrelevant. if you have a colonized pf cake then you can use this method. it makes no difference what lid your using. This is more "noob friendly" than agar work.

if time permits yes. if life gets in the way i may miss some things but ill try to keep it up to date so you can see a day by day. its the only way to show this works. and i have no issues doing that. in fact, its fun showing the day by day its just time consuming with life and all.

Quote:

spacechildo said:
Wow! I thought this was with modified proper lids.

One thing that came to mind, are you doing all this in a schmuvbox?
I thought they operated on the principles of a FH and that you shouldn't
open contamed plates etc in front of the air flow?

Am I missing something vital? :stoner:




to be honest i keep hearing all this discussion about lids with ports ect. if you have a colonized cake, then this method is where you begin. plain and simple. the lids don't matter.

im not opening a contaminated jar into my shmuvbox. im opening a fully colonized uncontaminated pf jar in the shmuv. if the jar is questionable i just chunk it out.
i've everything for the last 11 years in a shmuvbox since 2003.

I did one round of jars recently in a glove box in the last 11 years so i wouldn't stir the contam i had into the air. i tried to salvage some partially contaminated jars to grain.

other than that, i do prints, clones, g2g, p2g, agar, multispore syringes in a shmuvbox. i have a glovebox or SAB or whatever you want to call it, i just prefere the shmuv. it has more room to work in and freedom of movement.

what your missing is that this is even easier than you think it is. naysayers don't try it. that is it. its easy to make excuses not to try things. when reality is, it works just fine. also, i don't soak my grain for 24 hours. i do a 2 hour grain prep and i can spawn the jars once they cool. so while most people are waiting 12 to 24 hours to soak their grain. ive already pressure cooked, spawned and have 3 batches of jars incubating. and then ill be blazing a big fat spliff when everyone else is waiting to begin pressure cooking. or i might eat some leg steak wit my teef :eek:


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Edited by eatyualive (08/18/14 05:24 PM)

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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: eatyualive]
    #20438374 - 08/18/14 05:03 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

:thumbup:


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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: eatyualive]
    #20438528 - 08/18/14 05:40 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

agar work is harder than this. this is simple. thats the point.
the dry vermiculite barrier is irrelevant. if you have a colonized pf cake then you can use this method. it makes no difference what lid your using. This is more "noob friendly" than agar work.



:kaneclap:

  It's the perfect next step for a beginner.  I remember one particular thread doc t criticizes me for suggesting it.  It's certainly nothing new, and I can name a few other posters here who have been doing P2G for years as well.

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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: Mush 4 Brains]
    #20438563 - 08/18/14 05:48 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Excuse me if I'm missing something painfully obvious but, I think SBJ and space were thinking the same thing I am. If you do this with verm barrier and pf style lids is there not a chance that contams trapped in the dry verm layer could end up in the mix? They would not be a concern if fruiting or spawning but to inoculate grain spawn is a different beast.

I know a lot of the old School think us noobs are too paranoid about contams and that things like open air LC inoculations are an acceptable and measured risk or taking prints on the counter and making syringes with them is fine but, IME if I get even a little careless with my sterile tek or try to cut a corner it always seems to bite me in the ass. Hence why I would be hesitant to try something like this and even more reluctant to recommend it.  Thoughts?

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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #20438670 - 08/18/14 06:10 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

:whathesaid: exactly.


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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #20438683 - 08/18/14 06:14 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I can't say for sure why it works, though I know it does work.  If I had to take an educated guess, I'd attribute my personal success to a few different ideas/procedures.  (I'd be very interested on what eatyu has to say on this as well.)

1) If a pftek jar is able to make it to full colonization from MS, with the typical four open wholes and verm barrier...  Why wouldn't it be able to be used for g2g.  I mean if it's suitable/clean(sterile) enough for germination> full colonization, why wouldn't it be suitable for g2g (p2g) transfer?

2) I think over all there is a certain level of sterility that'll work, you have a bit of leeway sometimes.  Having a young vigorous culture goes a long way as well.  Think about people who use pins from their MS grows to knock up LC or grain by simply dropping the pin in.  There's plenty of evidence here that THAT works.  The pin growing in a tub isnt in 100% sterile conditions, it's getting ambient air flow from a clean however not sterile grow room.

3) I like to use a lot of spawn for transfers which I believe helps too.

4) My grow room is relatively small and cleaned very frequently.

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