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eatyualive
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Registered: 08/17/01
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P2G 123 (Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) 6
#20410651 - 08/12/14 08:52 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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This is part of my Easy Series

Brought to you by THE TRIBE
The goal is to have fully colonized jars ready for spawn in 7 days.
Easier to type P2G than Pf jar to Grain Transfer.
A key point to this method is that the pf mix is a bit drier than regular pf mix.
Recipe for 24 Pf jars: 12 cups verm 6 cups brf 5.5 cups water
one half cup less water is used compared to regular pf tek mix. This is intentionally done for liquid inoculations. The pf jars are stored as masters in the fridge for later use. The lower moisture content helps keep the pf cakes longer in the fridge. The idea is that when the colonized pf jar stores its a bit drier so you don't encounter moisture building up in the jar. the consistency of most of my cakes ends up crumbling into small particles that allow me to break up with a fork easily. This allows more inoculation points when forked into a grain jar.
regular 24 pf jar recipe 12 cups verm 6 cups brf 6 cups water
Here are some closeups of the drier mix. you will notice that the chunks are larger. this allows the pf jar to colonize much faster.
  
Illustration below using a shmuvbox for the clean work with APE. Spores are from 2009 sitting in a spore syringe in a fridge.
You can use a Shmuvbox a SAB/Glovebox or a flowhood to do your clean work.
Shmuvbox

SAB

Lets get to it, prep your clean work area and emplore clean principle. I will skip this part and just show the basics of this.
I only wipe my fork with rubbing alc. I loosen lids on all jars. I remove the pf cake lid and scrape off the verm into the bottom of my shmuvbox. I then keep the pf cake in the jar and scrape the pf cake into small pieces so that there are multiple inoculation points. You can do the entire cake, then open each lid real quick and dump the mycelia in. Or you can scrape enough for a few jars, open up the lid and dump. The key is to open the lid on your grain jars as quickly as possible and close them as quickly as you dump in the mycelia. I find it easier to do it jar by jar. If you keep your grain jar lids closed and only open them right before you dump in the mycelia you shouldn't have any problems. This is assuming your using and following clean/sterile technique.


This is what the mycelia should look like when you fork it using a smaller tipped fork. you want all the pieces small and tiny. You want many of them so there are many inoculation points.
Also a good POINTER is to use a fork with smaller size ends. this will allow you to break the pf cake up into small pieces. the more pieces the better. and also sometimes you can slip up and accidentally break the pf cake. this sometimes results in big chunks like one of the pics above. ideally you don't want this but sometimes you can't avoid it.

here are some better macros of the batch i did today. you can see what the texture and particle size of the scraped pf jar looks like.

GOOD EXAMPLE: THIS IS HOW IT SHOULD LOOK here are two different jars after a shake. notice how the mycelia is everywhere. this makes colonization very quick.
 
BAD EXAMPLE OF SCRAPE TECHNIQUE:this image below is not a great job. ideally you don't want big chunks like this because it will take longer to colonize. however, sometimes you are left at the end with the extra mycelia because you didn't quite evenly distribute all the mycelia into quart jars. so i end up dumping all the extra into the last jar. and sometimes your cake will break if you aren't careful or you use 2 year old pf cakes that are bone dry like i do.

I used Fooman's Grain Tek to prepare the grain in less than 2 hours. So I was already P2G'ing the pf jars into the quart jars before a 24 hour grain soak would be complete.
HERE IS A 6-7 DAY PICTORIAL OF 3 DIFFERENT CUBES USING THIS METHOD
THAI LIPA YAI Day 2-6:
     
R44
Day 2-6:
     
APE(Albino Penis Envy) and the spores are over 5 years old. All transfers done with the above method. (slower than most strains): If you use more pf jar mycelia per jar you can colonize the jars in as little as 3 days. But this works to get jars colonized from 5-7 days. you can do around 10-15 quart grain jars with one pf cake.
Day 2-6:
      
It looks like it will be under 7 days after inoculation for full colonization. This is extremely simple and easy. It works well and its quick if your using pf jars with anything from 9er tek clones, liquid cultures, liquid inoculants or even multispore.
Fivel's Results: 8 Days
   
Quote:
Fivel said: Final update #1
I spawned 2 tubs from those. I got 1 flush out of one of them and it triched out on me during second flush. I dug out the substrate and fruited it in another house to finish the flush and ended up with 5 1/2 oz dry the second tub I got 3 flushes out of and about 8 3/4 oz out of it. The first flush on that one was a few grams shy of 6 ounces  Here is the picture of the first flush before I cut anything and before it had a chance to fully mature 

I pulled a cake out the fridge and spawned P2G another 12 quarts 4 days ago. I'm shaking them today. I expect a 7 day colonization. 
you can see that most of the cube varieties have a similar growth speed. some are faster like thai lipa yai, some are slower like APE. Either way you can have jars colonized in 7 days or less.
After you have colonized your jars its time to spawn to bulk substrates.
You can also do a similar method if you want to make your jars colonize even faster in 3 DAYS!
3 Day Jar Colonization
Easy Bulk Subs 123
Grow Example
Quote:
eatyualive said: ok so here is an update. this was a multispore pf jar that was inoculated on 7.24.2014. once colonized, the jar was stored in the fridge until a new p2g transfer was done on 7.12.2015 almost a full year later. growth is not as fast but here is 7 days growth. the jars were shaken around day 3. one is finished the rest are almost there.
1 pf jar was p2ged to 10 quarts of wbs grain.
intending to take some clone material to keep this cube variety.

Quote:
eatyualive said: here is the year old pf jar p2g transfer. colonized after 9 days. a little slower than normal speeds but not too bad for a jar sitting in the fridge a whole year. ill grow out this spawn and update the thread when the grow is complete.

update.
this is R44 from a year old multispore pf jar. it was sitting in the fridge for over a year. p2ged into 10 quarts then spawned to bulk with a casing. it looks ropey. pinning very fast. going to attempt to take some clones of this one. tore through that casing layer in a day. extremely vigorous growth for being stored for so long. impressive genetics.

Edited by eatyualive (08/06/15 09:38 PM)
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Sockadin



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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: eatyualive]
#20410653 - 08/12/14 08:53 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Edit: I stand corrected. When I first looked at this post there was not any pictures LOL.(or text) Nice Job eatyualive. It is always a pleasure watching you work.
Edited by Sockadin (08/13/14 04:44 AM)
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shaymisco
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: Sockadin]
#20410687 - 08/12/14 09:00 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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I have a friend that does this, I think it is dumb and tried to argue but he still does. LC to PF without the dry verm layer (grain style lid) to grain. I do not recommend that though.
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eatyualive
Eat's You Alive :)



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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: Sockadin]
#20410706 - 08/12/14 09:06 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Sockadin said:

i just posted pics. believe what you want to believe. ive done it literally thousands of times.
Edited by eatyualive (08/12/14 09:08 PM)
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wowimflabbergasted
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: eatyualive]
#20411082 - 08/12/14 10:48 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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What's your contam rate with this?
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blindingleaf
blue collar underworld


Registered: 07/19/13
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wow thats fast!! can u post a pic of ur jar at 8/7? ur inoculation was 8/6, and the pic u have of 8/8 is amazing!! i have never seen leap off like that. edit: also wondering, the pics u have of the BRF dropped in grain jar (inoculation) look really low on grains (2/3-3/4 full), but the next pic is a grain jar totally full? am i missing something? sorry if i am
Edited by blindingleaf (08/12/14 10:59 PM)
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Quexl


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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: blindingleaf]
#20411261 - 08/12/14 11:40 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Very interesting tek I can see how the procedure avoids contamination that's typically associated with cakes by using one that hasn't been birthed yet, seems valid to me. Essentially it's just being used like G2G. Seems like it would be great for someone who's only done cakes before to start spawning grain to bulk.
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Sockadin



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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: Quexl]
#20411741 - 08/13/14 04:46 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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I agree this is a great way for new growers to start to get into grain.
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eatyualive
Eat's You Alive :)



Registered: 08/17/01
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Quote:
blindingleaf said: wow thats fast!! can u post a pic of ur jar at 8/7? ur inoculation was 8/6, and the pic u have of 8/8 is amazing!! i have never seen leap off like that. edit: also wondering, the pics u have of the BRF dropped in grain jar (inoculation) look really low on grains (2/3-3/4 full), but the next pic is a grain jar totally full? am i missing something? sorry if i am
unfortunately i didn't look at the jars or take any pictures until 2 days after i P2G'ed them. the first few pictures are a really old post that i had taken the procedure on in 2003. so thats old, but i recently took pictures of the jars that grew using the same method. so that was probably a really old camera. your correct, i was running out of grain to fill a total of 10-15 quarts at the time so the one i happened to take pictures of was a little low. I generally fill them as high as you see in the pictures with the growth.
Quote:
wowimflabbergasted said: What's your contam rate with this?
not any higher than if I used agar with a flowhood. 97% plus. And its been years since I have had a contam in grain to grain transfers using this method.
Quote:
Quexl said: Very interesting tek I can see how the procedure avoids contamination that's typically associated with cakes by using one that hasn't been birthed yet, seems valid to me. Essentially it's just being used like G2G. Seems like it would be great for someone who's only done cakes before to start spawning grain to bulk.
yes exactly i use pf jars as my masters. ill also take clone tissue blend it in a blendar attachment to a pf jar, suck it into a syringe and inject it into a pf jar. ill generally do 1 syringe pr jar or two jars and then i have a cloned pf jar in less than a week. everyone has a pf jar laying around. pf jars are simple enough and if you can fruit off a cake, you can make grain in 2 hours and then use a fork to P2G and have 10 quarts grain.
also remember that you could use that pf in 4 quart jars and have full colonization even faster. you can see how in day 2 the jar was almost fully colonized. that jar might have had more in it than what i distribute per jar. sometimes at the end of the pf jar i misjudged and i have quite a bit extra leftover, ill then dump the remaining pieces of the cake into that last jar. also a good POINTER is to use a fork with smaller size ends. this will allow you to break the pf cake up into small pieces. the more pieces the better. and also sometimes you can slip up and accidentally break the pf cake. this sometimes results in big chunks like one of the pics above. ideally you don't want this but sometimes you can avoid it.
so this method has over 10 years of my personal testing on it. and it works full proof. if you do have issues or contams its just a matter of improving your clean technique. a long time ago i had a little higher contam ratio but once i practiced a little more with my shmuvbox i have it down to a science now. all my movements are very fast and clean. you know from time to time you bump into things and screw things up its nature. no one is perfect or maybe ill take that back, stamets probably is. or folks that have a commercially available lab with hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of equipment. it cost me under 100$ for supplies to get fruits. fair deal.
Edited by eatyualive (08/13/14 05:09 PM)
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eatyualive
Eat's You Alive :)



Registered: 08/17/01
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: Sockadin]
#20411812 - 08/13/14 05:49 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Sockadin said:

Edit: I stand corrected. When I first looked at this post there was not any pictures LOL.(or text) Nice Job eatyualive. It is always a pleasure watching you work.
no worries man i was in the middle of posting it haha. sometimes i save the post if its very long because ive lost many posts that i spent an hour on without saving.
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eatyualive
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: eatyualive]
#20414570 - 08/13/14 06:54 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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today, updated op.
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Dilated
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: eatyualive]
#20414641 - 08/13/14 07:16 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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mushpunx
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: Dilated]
#20414728 - 08/13/14 07:37 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Cool tek
What is the benifit to this over just MS inoculation of the grain jars?
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eatyualive
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: mushpunx]
#20414786 - 08/13/14 07:55 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
mushpunx said: Cool tek
What is the benifit to this over just MS inoculation of the grain jars?
its not really a benefit. just something to start with if you only do or have pf jars. ive had issues over the years inoculating grain with syringes. sometimes if i inject too much ill get wetspot bacteria. my contam rate is actually higher using spore syringes directly into quart grain jars. pf jars are just about 100% contam free and super easy to make. its extremely fail safe. for me personally, i store the pf jars in a small fridge for masters opposed to storing the large quart jars. so really for me the benefit is space. i can fit maybe 4 total quart jars in that fridge compared to fitting 24 different pf jars. so i can run lets say i do 1 strain per 4 jars. thats 6 strains at once. each pf jar can turn into 100 quarts. the jars will usually last a year at minimum with an ok transfer. ive had one strain(Tasmanian) last two years in the fridge on a pf cake with a successful transfer. but grain lasts much longer in the fridge for sure.
also, with age, time isn't plentiful, life gets in the way, its a way of managing your crop and postponing it to fit your schedule.
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Dilated
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: eatyualive]
#20414805 - 08/13/14 08:00 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
eatyualive said:
Quote:
mushpunx said: Cool tek
What is the benifit to this over just MS inoculation of the grain jars?
its not really a benefit. just something to start with if you only do or have pf jars. ive had issues over the years inoculating grain with syringes. sometimes if i inject too much ill get wetspot bacteria. my contam rate is actually higher using spore syringes directly into quart grain jars. pf jars are just about 100% contam free and super easy to make. its extremely fail safe. for me personally, i store the pf jars in a small fridge for masters opposed to storing the large quart jars. so really for me the benefit is space. i can fit maybe 4 total quart jars in that fridge compared to fitting 24 different pf jars. so i can run lets say i do 1 strain per 4 jars. thats 6 strains at once. each pf jar can turn into 100 quarts. the jars will usually last a year at minimum with an ok transfer. ive had one strain(Tasmanian) last two years in the fridge on a pf cake with a successful transfer. but grain lasts much longer in the fridge for sure.
also, with age, time isn't plentiful, life gets in the way, its a way of managing your crop and postponing it to fit your schedule.
Great info thanks
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SpitballJedi
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: eatyualive]
#20414836 - 08/13/14 08:07 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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I have never got a grain jar to colonize as fast as yours do. I think my grains are a little on the dry side.
Nice work dude. It's good to see old farts, I mean long time TC's posting regularly like you do.
I've actually been going back and reading some old posts. I think a lot of good stuff may have been forgotten and/or brushed off.
Quote:
eatyualive said: also, with age, time isn't plentiful, life gets in the way, its a way of managing your crop and postponing it to fit your schedule.
I've certainly wasted some time, material, and energy because life interrupted my cultivation at the wrong time.
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eatyualive
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: SpitballJedi]
#20414853 - 08/13/14 08:14 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
SpitballJedi said: I have never got a grain jar to colonize as fast as yours do. I think my grains are a little on the dry side.
Nice work dude. It's good to see old farts, I mean long time TC's posting regularly like you do.
I've actually been going back and reading some old posts. I think a lot of good stuff may have been forgotten and/or brushed off.
Quote:
eatyualive said: also, with age, time isn't plentiful, life gets in the way, its a way of managing your crop and postponing it to fit your schedule.
I've certainly wasted some time, material, and energy because life interrupted my cultivation at the wrong time.
have you tried fooman's grain tek? are you soaking your grain?
i just follow foos tek to the t and it works out really well. actually i didn't really measure out my grain perfectly. i just fill two bowls i have and i know by eye what fills my 10 quart jars to the top. i guess i could measure it out but i always forget to do that when im doing grain. you know some of its outdated, but you have to put it into perspective. at the time, everyone was against half the things i did. well, times change. hard works prevails. i just like simple hard work. so whatever i can do to minimize complicating things is the method i pick.
there might be 10 ways to skin a cat, but whatever skins that cat the fastest is usually the one i go with.
you would probably laugh but i used to soak my grain. thats so like 1980 isn't it? lmao
Edited by eatyualive (08/13/14 08:20 PM)
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Dilated
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: SpitballJedi]
#20414902 - 08/13/14 08:23 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Ok so I been using Frank's WBS prep ever since I moved to bulk and it takes 24+ hours to get them into the PC. You really get your's into the PC from soak to PC in under an hour?! I maybe changing how I do things........

over course correct me if I'm wrong..
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eatyualive
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: Dilated]
#20414923 - 08/13/14 08:27 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Dilated said: Ok so I been using Frank's WBS prep ever since I moved to bulk and it takes 24+ hours to get them into the PC. You really get your's into the PC from soak to PC in under an hour?! I maybe changing how I do things........

over course correct me if I'm wrong..
2 hours.
basically it takes 30 minutes to soak in boiled water. you strain it out for 30 minutes. then you load and pc an hour. so it takes 2 hours and your jars are pced. you then allow it to cool and spawn after.
Fooman's Grain Tek
although i think foo just strains it out real quick, rinses it and then loads up the jars. so you can take out 30 minutes from that process. i do the 2 hour thing. and mostly becuase im way blazed when im letting the grain strain so sometimes i forget.
and its always good to allow the pressure to release from the pressure cooker and once the jars are cool enough to touch, give them a shake so that the moisture is distributed through the jars evenly.
Edited by eatyualive (08/13/14 08:37 PM)
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Dilated
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Re: P2G(Pf Jar to Grain Transfer) [Re: eatyualive]
#20414948 - 08/13/14 08:34 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Yeah I read it and was blown away. I'm definitely going to try this. Grain prep for me takes up way too much time! Glad I found that. I usually remove my jars as soon as the PC is depressurized using an oven mit.. give it a quick shake and let them cool outside the PC. I know most people don't do that but do you see a major fault in doing it that way?
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