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Offlinesarahnya
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Ayahusca Safe with Sertraline SSRI?
    #20395983 - 08/09/14 02:05 PM (9 years, 5 months ago)

My best friend would like to try Ayahusca but she is on Sertraline, she hasn't taken it for the last 2 days but will it have any bad interactions if it's still in her system?


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InvisibleStygianKnight
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Re: Ayahusca Safe with Sertraline SSRI? [Re: sarahnya]
    #20396013 - 08/09/14 02:14 PM (9 years, 5 months ago)

Possibly.
MAOI-B in 'standard' Aya is less active with serotonin than MAOI-A.
But I still wouldn't screw around with any MAOI and an SSRI.

The half life of sertraline is a bit over 24 hours so you are looking at 5-7 days for decent elimination.
Which if she is on it for specific reasons I wouldn't recommend.

Her best bet is to try smoking DMT first, it's much shorter but less risky, and can provide an idea to if she would want to do the fast for the longer experience.


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Offlinesarahnya
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Re: Ayahusca Safe with Sertraline SSRI? [Re: StygianKnight]
    #20396040 - 08/09/14 02:21 PM (9 years, 5 months ago)

Hmm I have ordered most of the stuff for DMT extraction but I'm still a little scared about doing it wrong and inhaling caustic soda lol


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OfflineSabnock
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Re: Ayahusca Safe with Sertraline SSRI? [Re: sarahnya]
    #20396183 - 08/09/14 03:00 PM (9 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

sarahnya said:
Hmm I have ordered most of the stuff for DMT extraction but I'm still a little scared about doing it wrong and inhaling caustic soda lol




Use washing soda, fuck lye.


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Re: Ayahusca Safe with Sertraline SSRI? [Re: Sabnock]
    #20396275 - 08/09/14 03:39 PM (9 years, 5 months ago)

Sabnock, I'm dumbfounded that you didn't correct StygianKnight's terrible misinformation, c.f. your knowledge on MAOis, e.g. your comments in this thread: http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/20356285#20356285


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Re: Ayahusca Safe with Sertraline SSRI? [Re: s240779]
    #20396376 - 08/09/14 04:15 PM (9 years, 5 months ago)

That post you linked went over my head. I don't think it would be wise to let her try it despite coming off the anti depressants.


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Re: Ayahusca Safe with Sertraline SSRI? [Re: s240779]
    #20396461 - 08/09/14 04:44 PM (9 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Da2ra said:
Sabnock, I'm dumbfounded that you didn't correct StygianKnight's terrible misinformation, c.f. your knowledge on MAOis, e.g. your comments in this thread: http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/20356285#20356285




Huh? I didn't come here to talk about MAOI's though, my post had to do with the OP saying "Hmm I have ordered most of the stuff for DMT extraction but I'm still a little scared about doing it wrong and inhaling caustic soda", to which i replied "use washings soda, fuck lye".

And what misinformation are you referring to exactly? Everyone knows you're not supposed to take MAOI's or even RIMA's with SSRI's... even though there's two studies here: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8294388?dopt=Abstract&holding=npg - and here: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7675971 - that show SSRI's can be used safely, apparently, in the right doses with atleast Moclobemide, and i've even heard it said in some lectures i've watched here recently and even i think Dennis McKenna has said it, that the latest news is that we just simply do not know for sure if SSRI's can be mixed with RIMA's or not but that some existing evidence shows that perhaps there isn't as much danger as most originally thought with the combo. Though i'm not sure which lectures i watched or who all exactly said that, i just remember hearing about it from a few different researchers during their lectures and decided to look it up which is when i found those two links. My brother is even on Zoloft and he's taken the Rue a few times when trying Ayahuasca, but nothing ever happened, probably because he needed a bigger dose of the DMT since SSRI's compete with Psychedelics due to the extra Serotonin floating around.



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Re: Ayahusca Safe with Sertraline SSRI? [Re: Sabnock]
    #20396492 - 08/09/14 04:51 PM (9 years, 5 months ago)

I'm not talking about whether or not it's safe to take SSRIs with MAOIs. Talking about something else he said. I shouldn't have used the word terrible, though. Sorry, Stygian.


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Re: Ayahusca Safe with Sertraline SSRI? [Re: s240779]
    #20396551 - 08/09/14 05:08 PM (9 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Da2ra said:
I'm not talking about whether or not it's safe to take SSRIs with MAOIs. Talking about something else he said. I shouldn't have used the word terrible, though. Sorry, Stygian.




What, this? "MAOI-B in 'standard' Aya is less active with serotonin than MAOI-A."

MAO-B plays no role in Ayahuasca, and i don't think Serotonin has any affinity for MAO-B, but MAO-B mainly deals with Dopamine and PEA if i'm not mistaken.


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InvisibleStygianKnight
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Re: Ayahusca Safe with Sertraline SSRI? [Re: Sabnock]
    #20396714 - 08/09/14 06:00 PM (9 years, 5 months ago)

Indeed you're right, I got my MAOIs mixed up.
Of course MAOI-A is even worse to mix with SSRIs.


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OfflineSabnock
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Re: Ayahusca Safe with Sertraline SSRI? [Re: StygianKnight]
    #20396748 - 08/09/14 06:09 PM (9 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

StygianKnight said:
Indeed you're right, I got my MAOIs mixed up.
Of course MAOI-A is even worse to mix with SSRIs.




Well that's the thing though, we don't know that for a fact, it's only rumor until scientifically proven. No doubt, caution should be expressed significantly when talking about RIMA's and SSRI's, but we just don't know for sure if there is for sure a negative reaction or not. I certainly wouldn't recommend one combine the two though, but if one knows their stuff then by all means experimentation should never be discouraged if all the safety standards are in place.


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InvisibleStygianKnight
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Re: Ayahusca Safe with Sertraline SSRI? [Re: Sabnock]
    #20396849 - 08/09/14 06:37 PM (9 years, 5 months ago)

Interesting, do you mean we don't know for a fact that harmaline is a RIMA?  Or just whether or not the combination itself is dangerous?

I know that while many worry about Serotonin syndrome, SSRIs, mushrooms, MDMA, etc. that the vast majority of known cases of SS (as opposed to the assumed cases) have included an MAOI in the mix.  I unfortunately don't remember if there have been any specifically with SSRIs and harmaline (since there are few documented cases that SS positively diagnosed) but it would certainly seem to be a concern.


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Re: Ayahusca Safe with Sertraline SSRI? [Re: StygianKnight]
    #20396946 - 08/09/14 07:02 PM (9 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

StygianKnight said:
Interesting, do you mean we don't know for a fact that harmaline is a RIMA?  Or just whether or not the combination itself is dangerous?

I know that while many worry about Serotonin syndrome, SSRIs, mushrooms, MDMA, etc. that the vast majority of known cases of SS (as opposed to the assumed cases) have included an MAOI in the mix.  I unfortunately don't remember if there have been any specifically with SSRIs and harmaline (since there are few documented cases that SS positively diagnosed) but it would certainly seem to be a concern.




We don't know for sure what the combination of SSRI and RIMA might do. With MAOI's, as in irreversible and non-selective MAOI's, SSRI's are NOT a good thing to mix in, but RIMA's, because they are reversible, may actually do some good in combination with an SSRI, IF the dosage for both are worked out and agreed upon by medical professionals. Once again though, i am in no way advocating the combination of a RIMA and an SSRI, and it is a very cautious topic, so unless someone really knows what they are doing, i personally wouldn't mess around with it.

And speaking of Serotonin Syndrome, alot of people seem to speak continuously of SS but while it can happen, SS from Psychedelic use, as far as i know, is rarely reported, even with an MAO-A inhibitor in the mix. I myself, went through SS once due to pharmaceutical anti-depressants and anti-psychotics the psychiatrist had me on during my teen years, and it wasn't pleasant, but it's highly unlikely one would suffer SS from Ayahuasca or other Psychedelics with Ayahuasca.


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OfflineShroomin Capote
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Re: Ayahusca Safe with Sertraline SSRI? [Re: sarahnya]
    #20397101 - 08/09/14 07:51 PM (9 years, 5 months ago)

I heard that was a lethal combo and that someone in the past few years died from that.  I could be wrong but I would highly recommend you do not attempt this combo


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:leaf::leaf:


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Re: Ayahusca Safe with Sertraline SSRI? [Re: Shroomin Capote]
    #20397769 - 08/09/14 11:32 PM (9 years, 5 months ago)

I'm going to tell her to stick to trying the mushrooms.  If she is totally clean and off the anti depressants next year we plan to goto Peru and try the real thing anyhow.

Thanks people :smile:


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Re: Ayahusca Safe with Sertraline SSRI? [Re: sarahnya]
    #20398119 - 08/10/14 02:16 AM (9 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

sarahnya said:
I'm going to tell her to stick to trying the mushrooms.  If she is totally clean and off the anti depressants next year we plan to goto Peru and try the real thing anyhow.

Thanks people :smile:




You should really try Ayahuasca in the comfort of your own home first, before you would wanna travel to Peru, trust me on this sir. I'm well outside the traditionary road when it comes to Ayahuasca, and use it for what benefits me. If you experiment around with it yourself and have your own experience, rather than having someone else's experience (like a shaman who has his or her own structure or rules they go by), then you'll start to understand things like never before, things that the traditional experiences do not offer. Ayahuasca can be used in MANY ways, and i truly do believe people would get way more out of the Ayahuasca experiences, if they experimented with it themselves, instead of thinking it's necessary for a shaman to direct/guide you... you can guide/direct yourself, it's awesome.


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Re: Ayahusca Safe with Sertraline SSRI? [Re: Sabnock]
    #20398340 - 08/10/14 04:53 AM (9 years, 5 months ago)

Well she has to come off it.  I will try before but I need to know correct amounts to brew as I have powdered mimosa root bark and powdered caapi and all the recipes say to use whole ingredients.


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Re: Ayahusca Safe with Sertraline SSRI? [Re: sarahnya]
    #20398762 - 08/10/14 09:46 AM (9 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

sarahnya said:
Well she has to come off it.  I will try before but I need to know correct amounts to brew as I have powdered mimosa root bark and powdered caapi and all the recipes say to use whole ingredients.




Yeah, make sure she's off the SSRI before Ayahuasca use. As for using powered Mimosa and Caapi, they should work fine, you don't need whole bark or vine, though whole bark/vine is probably better though it would take longer to brew up. Plus with powdered stuff, you'll most likely have to allow each boil to sit for awhile so that the sediment and bark falls to the bottom, and then you're able to decant. Doing it that way, ensures an easier filtering, as we all know powdered stuff can be a pain to filter.

But yeah, you should be fine with powdered material. Powdered Mimosa works fine. And if you're really wanting Ayahuasca to work as fully as possible, then you should take the Caapi first, wait about 45 minutes to an hour and then take the Mimosa, that ensures that MAO-A will be inhibited before you drink the Mimosa.


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Re: Ayahusca Safe with Sertraline SSRI? [Re: Sabnock]
    #20398774 - 08/10/14 09:52 AM (9 years, 5 months ago)

Powdered is proper! Maximum infusion efficiency. I would imagine that with non-powdered material, a significant amount of the alkaloids remain lodged in the material. Even if that's not the case, the alkaloids certainly move into the water quicker with powdered.


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Re: Ayahusca Safe with Sertraline SSRI? [Re: s240779]
    #20398836 - 08/10/14 10:18 AM (9 years, 5 months ago)

How much do you have to use of mimosa/capi?  The recipes I can find are all for while ingredients.


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Re: Ayahusca Safe with Sertraline SSRI? [Re: sarahnya]
    #20399701 - 08/10/14 10:18 AM (9 years, 5 months ago)

This thread has been closed.

Reason:
Sorry. This topic is against the rules and some bad info has been given. It will be locked.


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