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Shins
Fun guy



Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 16,337
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Re: When people say that McDonald's, for example, should up their wages to 15/hr.. [Re: Shins]
#20391379 - 08/08/14 10:53 AM (9 years, 5 months ago) |
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http://wmbriggs.com/blog/?p=10224
To act on the belief that we possess the knowledge and the power which enable us to shape the processes of society entirely to our liking, knowledge which in fact we do not possess, is likely to make us do much harm. In the physical sciences there may be little objection to trying to do the impossible; one might even feel that one ought not to discourage the over-confident because their experiments may after all produce some new insights. But in the social field the erroneous belief that the exercise of some power would have beneficial consequences is likely to lead to a new power to coerce other men being conferred on some authority.
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Xingu
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Re: When people say that McDonald's, for example, should up their wages to 15/hr.. [Re: Shins]
#20391405 - 08/08/14 11:04 AM (9 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shins said: So why not raise it to $20 an hour? $50? $100? $1000? What is the magic number?
This is what is called "pretense of knowledge" there's no way to know the "right" number..
Because that's not stability. Relative to consumer price index, the effective minimum wage has been falling for decades. If the minimum wage isn't going to be effectively stable, then it's pointless to exist at all. Aside from that route, The number wouldn't be magic, it would be derived from economics. There are measurable impacts of moving the minimum wage, and a point at which negatives will outweigh positives. Saying there's no way to know the "right" number completely dismisses an entire field of study. It's hardly different than us saying that there's no way to know that any knowledge derived in Biology is magical pretense.
Quote:
Shins said: To act on the belief that we possess the knowledge and the power which enable us to shape the processes of society entirely to our liking, knowledge which in fact we do not possess, is likely to make us do much harm. In the physical sciences there may be little objection to trying to do the impossible; one might even feel that one ought not to discourage the over-confident because their experiments may after all produce some new insights. But in the social field the erroneous belief that the exercise of some power would have beneficial consequences is likely to lead to a new power to coerce other men being conferred on some authority.
Ya, sorry, but that is more rhetoric than logic. You're just favoring one authority over another rather than bringing critical thinking into the picture. Favoring the employer over the employee, OR the employee over the employer is simple anti-intellectualism. To find out what really produces optimal results, you can't simply make a statement like that and continue business as usual. If we followed that logic, psychology and sociology, as well as economics, should be regarded as useless and coercive sciences.
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qman
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Re: When people say that McDonald's, for example, should up their wages to 15/hr.. [Re: BIGS]
#20391414 - 08/08/14 11:07 AM (9 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
BIGS said: So now all of those college kids the decided to work HARD for a degree they now paid 50-80k, come out into the work force. Whats there motivational drive to get a 12h job at some fancy company that uses there degree. When MCdonalds is hiring at 15h....
Doesn't make sense. It all has to do with inflation. 15h is an outrageous increase in wages. People need to fucking work hard and stop there bitching. Look at ur life and prioritize what you can and cannot do. If you make 8-9h, you shouldnt be out at the bar buying 10$ drink left and right, hour after hour.
AMERICANS feel entitled to free money. Give me, Give me, its my american right. Well FUCK YOU. If i see Mcdonalds or anything motherfucker start handing out 15h raises for a bullshit job flipping a burger, i might as well do nothing with my life and start sucking at the government tit, because fuck it right.
I know people who have degrees in engineering/health care, that barely make 14h, and they had to go to school study and be diligent to get where they are... Why do fast food employees feel the need to bitch about having a job in the first place. If you chose not to achieve a higher education, thats ur problem, not societies problem.
"If you chose not to achieve a higher education, thats ur problem, not societies problem"
Only 30% of the population has a higher education, what about the other 70% of worker bees, if the low skilled jobs don't pay enough, that's a problem for everyone.
Also, there are only so many jobs for people with a higher education, we have already flooded the job market with college graduates and we don't need anymore, it doesn't solve anything.
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Grewsome


Registered: 10/22/13
Posts: 65
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Re: When people say that McDonald's, for example, should up their wages to 15/hr.. [Re: qman]
#20391542 - 08/08/14 11:49 AM (9 years, 5 months ago) |
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Unionize mcdonalds?
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tyrannicalrex
Strange R



Registered: 04/24/03
Posts: 38,323
Loc: subtropics
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Re: When people say that McDonald's, for example, should up their wages to 15/hr.. [Re: qman]
#20391558 - 08/08/14 11:56 AM (9 years, 5 months ago) |
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...and some people DO NOT want to progress academically at all. They may see it as BS and have no drive beyond simple minimum wage jobs. Some people see college as a waste of time/money. They are perfectly content with having minimal lifestyles. I saw this out in rural OK when I went to get my RN degree. The mothers of the girls I went to school with told me they were pressuring them into having kids before they are "too old" and before 25!!!
I met some people that thought Paris Texas was a "big city" compared to Broken Bow. It was frightening, enlightening, and sickening all at the same time. The people that live in what some would consider a poor neighborhood or in poverty is OK to them. Not all of them, but a lot of them want/like it that way. Places like Broken Bow will never change because the people that live there and own the land/businesses etc... keep it that way for themselves and their families.
I also heard from some people out there that the business/land owners will never sell to anyone that is not of their ilk (religious, doesn't want any chain restaurants, no progress beyond what is there). Some people just do not want any of the BS that cities provide. I personally think/know there is a happy medium for me.
Edited by tyrannicalrex (08/08/14 11:57 AM)
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ShiVersblood
VAmPiRES HELLA ❤


Registered: 08/18/07
Posts: 115,620
Loc: United States of America
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Re: When people say that McDonald's, for example, should up their wages to 15/hr.. [Re: tyrannicalrex]
#20391861 - 08/08/14 01:23 PM (9 years, 5 months ago) |
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college is too hard costs too much money and takes too long. I tried going once and flunked out.
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fapjack
Title



Registered: 07/26/07
Posts: 16,574
Loc: Central New Jersey
Last seen: 3 years, 10 months
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Re: When people say that McDonald's, for example, should up their wages to 15/hr.. [Re: TheMule73]
#20392061 - 08/08/14 02:18 PM (9 years, 5 months ago) |
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If they are going to raise their wages, maybe they should get some workers that actually know how to cook, replace their shitty products with ones that contain quality ingredients, and why not change their name because they no longer make a shitty product. I expect shitty workers at that shitty restaurant because they make a shitty product that makes you feel shitty after eating it and make you shit soon afterwards. Fuck McDonalds.
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ShiVersblood
VAmPiRES HELLA ❤


Registered: 08/18/07
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Re: When people say that McDonald's, for example, should up their wages to 15/hr.. [Re: fapjack]
#20392097 - 08/08/14 02:31 PM (9 years, 5 months ago) |
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mcdonalds certainly has enough money to do something like that. but it would cost them money to do something like that so they wont.
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Shins
Fun guy



Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 16,337
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Re: When people say that McDonald's, for example, should up their wages to 15/hr.. [Re: ShiVersblood]
#20392679 - 08/08/14 05:23 PM (9 years, 5 months ago) |
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If the CPI is raising faster than wages than lower the CPI. Inflation is the real problem that liberals always fail to address. We all see the cost of living increasing and it's well meaning to see that the wages of the bottom brackets are being eaten up more and more by the raising cost of living
Its well meaning to want wages to go further instead of less, and its probably well intentioned to think raising the minimum wage might improve a wages-to-CPI statistic. It does not address the real issue of the raising cost of living though which will continue to raise regardless of minimum wage.
If we want a lower cost of living we need less inflation, or more precisely, we'd need deflation. Deflation would mean that the current minimum wage would buy more stuff. Deflation and balance is being prevented and manipulated by the banking and investor class and their political cronies.
Honest business owners and people are not the ones scamming poor people, they help people out with employment and experience. The investment bankers and their hired politiciand are. They have interest that the market prices never deflate.. they want to see the cost of living INCREASE because then they can sell their investments for more! The problem is that they have infested government with their stolen profits and are perpetuating a cycle of government enabled financial fraud.
Liberals tend to be easily manipulated by the "devil's deal" and allow the government to inflate the market... as long as they get a sliver of the fraud pie
to nalance wages with cost of living the solution is to stop the fraud and coercion between the government and the investment bankers. The markets want to deflate but the Federal reserve and the government are preventing it to protect the value of the investments of the super-fraudster bankers and lazy investor minions. All at the expense of the poor, working man, and yes, event at the expense of the small employer. Large corporations however benifit by having their stock priced artificially inflated by monetary "stimulus"
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my3rdeye



Registered: 08/10/12
Posts: 4,354
Loc: Canada
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Re: When people say that McDonald's, for example, should up their wages to 15/hr.. [Re: trekie] 1
#20393649 - 08/08/14 09:49 PM (9 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
trekie said: Fast food is easy no skill work and deserves shit pay.
No way in hell should some one flipping burgers get nearly the same pay as a construction worker.
If you think fast food is hard work life is going to be very difficult for you.
I have done both construction and Mcdonalds. Yes construction may be harder on your body but you take more breaks. I hated the job of fast food way more than construction. I would actually say fast food is harder. Yes it's unskilled, but that doesn't make it easy. Construction was also less rushed, I never had someone screaming to do it faster. Yeah you get the occasional lecture on speed but the pace of construction was much more leisurely in my experience. If you can't afford to pay people 15 bucks an hour don't start a business. Maybe the garment factory should be able to pay people 5 bucks so they can compete with India? People say hell no to that but accept it when mega corporations cry poor.
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twighead
mͯó



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Re: When people say that McDonald's, for example, should up their wages to 15/hr.. [Re: my3rdeye]
#20393662 - 08/08/14 09:51 PM (9 years, 5 months ago) |
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We should just keep people making 7.50 forever while the price of everything rises substantially consistently!
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fapjack
Title



Registered: 07/26/07
Posts: 16,574
Loc: Central New Jersey
Last seen: 3 years, 10 months
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Re: When people say that McDonald's, for example, should up their wages to 15/hr.. [Re: twighead]
#20393683 - 08/08/14 09:56 PM (9 years, 5 months ago) |
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.
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Edited by Prisoner#1 (08/08/14 10:24 PM)
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Shins
Fun guy



Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 16,337
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Re: When people say that McDonald's, for example, should up their wages to 15/hr.. [Re: fapjack]
#20393749 - 08/08/14 10:19 PM (9 years, 5 months ago) |
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It'll keep getting worse unless the monetary / banking system is changed, minimum wage won't fix it, stop inflation.
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ThatKidWithTheFace
R.I.P. ZIG R.I.P. Sloth


Registered: 09/30/12
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Re: When people say that McDonald's, for example, should up their wages to 15/hr.. [Re: my3rdeye]
#20395699 - 08/09/14 12:43 PM (9 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
my3rdeye said:
Quote:
trekie said: Fast food is easy no skill work and deserves shit pay.
No way in hell should some one flipping burgers get nearly the same pay as a construction worker.
If you think fast food is hard work life is going to be very difficult for you.
I have done both construction and Mcdonalds. Yes construction may be harder on your body but you take more breaks. I hated the job of fast food way more than construction. I would actually say fast food is harder. Yes it's unskilled, but that doesn't make it easy. Construction was also less rushed, I never had someone screaming to do it faster. Yeah you get the occasional lecture on speed but the pace of construction was much more leisurely in my experience. If you can't afford to pay people 15 bucks an hour don't start a business. Maybe the garment factory should be able to pay people 5 bucks so they can compete with India? People say hell no to that but accept it when mega corporations cry poor.
Exactly.
The tile's gonna get laid when it gets laid.
But they want that taco yesterday.
-------------------- Check Out My Beats SoundCloud
[quote]Sheekle said: [quote]ThatKidWithTheFace said: Is this the same aunt that fucks dogs?[/quote] u bet ur ass it is.[/quote]
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specialpeopleclub



Registered: 04/10/14
Posts: 5,584
Loc: Mitten
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Re: When people say that McDonald's, for example, should up their wages to 15/hr.. [Re: Shining Cosmos]
#20395765 - 08/09/14 01:02 PM (9 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shining Cosmos said: I agree. Fast food jobs are shitty jobs by design. It's not like it was an accident. Shitty food too. How is that service WORTH fifteen dollars an hour...absurd. In my opinion 12 is a miracle just for fast food.
It's about the time and being able to live off it. You can only work what you are given, and even then, your time is limited.
If you are so stuck up that you would tell someone working a menial job, that you arent worth thr rate of inflation, you have a problem, weather it be perceptual or moral.
They werent just 'designed' magically to be shit jobs.If they were, it's time for a change. I don't care that they were ment to be stepping stones for kids in the fucking 80's. The 80's are dead people, thirty year olds and grammas work there now, and if you give an employer fourty hours a week, you should be able to eat decent, have a roof, internet, heating, things that conservative snobs nowdays think the lower class doesn't deserve because of the defemation campagn by the right wing.
people will always presume the context of others though, based on stupid things like skin color and money
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Re: When people say that McDonald's, for example, should up their wages to 15/hr.. [Re: ThatKidWithTheFace]
#20396032 - 08/09/14 02:19 PM (9 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
ThatKidWithTheFace said:
Quote:
my3rdeye said:
Quote:
trekie said: Fast food is easy no skill work and deserves shit pay.
No way in hell should some one flipping burgers get nearly the same pay as a construction worker.
If you think fast food is hard work life is going to be very difficult for you.
I have done both construction and Mcdonalds. Yes construction may be harder on your body but you take more breaks. I hated the job of fast food way more than construction. I would actually say fast food is harder. Yes it's unskilled, but that doesn't make it easy. Construction was also less rushed, I never had someone screaming to do it faster. Yeah you get the occasional lecture on speed but the pace of construction was much more leisurely in my experience. If you can't afford to pay people 15 bucks an hour don't start a business. Maybe the garment factory should be able to pay people 5 bucks so they can compete with India? People say hell no to that but accept it when mega corporations cry poor.
Exactly.
The tile's gonna get laid when it gets laid.
But they want that taco yesterday.
That is most definitely NOT my experience with construction and I have almost 40 years of it.
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blackdust


Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 8,327
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Re: When people say that McDonald's, for example, should up their wages to 15/hr.. [Re: zappaisgod]
#20396124 - 08/09/14 02:44 PM (9 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: How does welfare decrease crime and pestilence? It has seemed to have the opposite effect.
fuck dude, if i was broke and needed to feed my family and their were NO ALTERNATIVES, I would cheat, steal, and con to feed my family. Survival of the fittest.
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blackdust


Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 8,327
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Re: When people say that McDonald's, for example, should up their wages to 15/hr.. [Re: Shins]
#20396150 - 08/09/14 02:51 PM (9 years, 5 months ago) |
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and I do not understand why people bitch about wage. If their are no jobs then you gotta fucking move to where the jobs are. For fucks sake, i just posted my resume online and got 8 phone calls wanting me for interviews and I did not fill out one application. This is for general labor jobs that pay 11 - 20 hr depending on experience. If people want more money than they have to fucking earn it.
Edited by blackdust (08/09/14 02:51 PM)
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Re: When people say that McDonald's, for example, should up their wages to 15/hr.. [Re: blackdust]
#20396174 - 08/09/14 02:58 PM (9 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
blackdust said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: How does welfare decrease crime and pestilence? It has seemed to have the opposite effect.
fuck dude, if i was broke and needed to feed my family and their were NO ALTERNATIVES, I would cheat, steal, and con to feed my family. Survival of the fittest.
What the fuck are you doing with a family if you are a loser with no job? Really, get a vasectomy or your tubes tied
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Re: When people say that McDonald's, for example, should up their wages to 15/hr.. [Re: blackdust]
#20396178 - 08/09/14 02:59 PM (9 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
blackdust said: and I do not understand why people bitch about wage. If their are no jobs then you gotta fucking move to where the jobs are. For fucks sake, i just posted my resume online and got 8 phone calls wanting me for interviews and I did not fill out one application. This is for general labor jobs that pay 11 - 20 hr depending on experience. If people want more money than they have to fucking earn it.
Why didn't you fill out an application?
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