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Anonymous

self-defense?
    #2036533 - 10/23/03 04:13 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

lets say a cop is trying to arrest you for a drug offense and you shoot him. self defense?


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: self-defense? [Re: ]
    #2036623 - 10/23/03 04:42 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Nope...Cop Killer.


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: self-defense? [Re: ]
    #2036645 - 10/23/03 04:50 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

He's trying to arrest you, which is not a life-threatening condition.

If a cop started shooting at you and you shot him, then I'd say it's self defense as long as he/she shot first.


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Anonymous

Re: self-defense? [Re: trendal]
    #2036816 - 10/23/03 06:07 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

i'd say it's tantamount to armed kidnapping and robbery.


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OfflineLeviathan1854Z
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Re: self-defense? [Re: ]
    #2036988 - 10/23/03 06:56 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Well, according to the Model Penal Code (MPC) which has been adopted in whole or part by most states in the U.S., "the use of force upon or toward another person i justifiable when the actor believes that such force is immediately necessary for the purpose of protecting himself against the use of unlawful force by such other person on the present occasion" (MPC Secion 3.04(1))

But the MPC provides exceptions where force is not justifiable including "to resist an arrest that the actor knows is being made by a peace officer, although the arrest is unlawful." (MPC Section 3.04(2a1)) So for this reason you would be a cop killer.  :smile:

In terms of if the police officer shoots at you first, another exception where force is not justified is when "the actor, with the purpose of causing death or serious bodily injury, provoked the use of force against himself in the same encounter." (MPC 3.04 (2b1)) Thus is the police officer had a reasonable belief (and the court is almost always going to take the cops word to this) that you were going to attempt to cause him great bodily harm (maybe if he saw your weapon) then you would have been said to have provoked his action and thus could not claim self-defense if he shot at you.

Yea, law school.


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Anonymous

Re: self-defense? [Re: Leviathan1854Z]
    #2039359 - 10/24/03 02:14 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

i'm not really talking about what the exact legal definitions may be.... i'm quite certain that by the law, it would not be considered an act of self-defense. i mean it more of an ethical question.

i think it is an act of self-defense.

i don't like it how the drug war, etc. puts cops in that position... honestly, i know a few cops, and alot of them are good people- but if one of them was intent on forcefully taking away my liberty while enforcing such unjust laws, and i had a decent chance of defending myself in that way, i'd do it, and with a clear conscience.

the fact that perhaps our hypothetical cop was only doing his job and enforcing majority-approved laws, and might be a good guy, maybe with a family at home, is sad, but his blood is on the hands of those that sent him out to enforce their tyranny, and on his own for agreeing to do so.


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: self-defense? [Re: ]
    #2039368 - 10/24/03 02:16 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Nope, what Rono said


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Anonymous

Re: self-defense? [Re: Innvertigo]
    #2039375 - 10/24/03 02:19 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

what if you were a jew shooting a nazi stormtrooper?


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: self-defense? [Re: ]
    #2039380 - 10/24/03 02:21 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

that's quite a leap, don't you think?


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Anonymous

Re: self-defense? [Re: afoaf]
    #2039385 - 10/24/03 02:23 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

because the nazis murdered jews, while in america, drug offenders are only imprisoned temporarily?

what if the penalty for drug use was death, as it is in some nations? then would it be ok?


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: self-defense? [Re: ]
    #2039396 - 10/24/03 02:27 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

did you just call me a jew? :smirk:

if in that circumstance it would be self defense.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Offlinehongomon
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Re: self-defense? [Re: ]
    #2039433 - 10/24/03 02:41 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

And since I am possessing drugs I should probably shoot them preemptively, before the danger becomes imminent...


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: self-defense? [Re: hongomon]
    #2039494 - 10/24/03 03:00 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

try to use that defense in court, it'll get a chuckle at least.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Offlinehongomon
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Re: self-defense? [Re: Innvertigo]
    #2039511 - 10/24/03 03:02 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I might even get quoted on the news.


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: self-defense? [Re: hongomon]
    #2039569 - 10/24/03 03:15 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

that it would.....under the "anti-american" heading


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineEchoVortex
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Re: self-defense? [Re: ]
    #2039580 - 10/24/03 03:16 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

mushmaster said:
i'd say it's tantamount to armed kidnapping and robbery.





Welcome to . . . The Libertarian Zone

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Offlinepattern
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Re: self-defense? [Re: ]
    #2039653 - 10/24/03 03:27 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

mushmaster said:
i'd say it's tantamount to armed kidnapping and robbery.
 




I agree with someone on this board for once.  :thumbup: 


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OfflineBhairabas
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Re: self-defense? [Re: ]
    #2040138 - 10/24/03 05:31 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

mushmaster said:
i'd say it's tantamount to armed kidnapping and robbery.




I tried to explain that to the last cop I shot and he didn't seem to get it..


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Offlinehongomon
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Re: self-defense? [Re: Innvertigo]
    #2040418 - 10/24/03 06:55 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Innvertigo said:
that it would.....under the "anti-american" heading




Never heard of that...is ot something new at Fox News?


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Offlinepattern
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Re: self-defense? [Re: Innvertigo]
    #2040902 - 10/24/03 10:13 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I wonder how many people in here have been busted by cops for drugs?

:rolleyes: 


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