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Offlineasdfasd
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Psilocin and Moclobemide
    #10612681 - 07/02/09 11:03 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Hi,

I've had some dried mushrooms sitting around for a while now (psilocybe subaeruginosa) and am thinking of taking them soon. I ate half of the bunch (1.5 grams dried) a few weeks ago and had a great time, tripped for about 2-3 hours.

The only problem is that since then I've started taking Moclobemide (450mg daily). Some sources say that Moclobemide potentiates Psilocin, and other sources say that it reduces the effects of Psilocin.

I'm just curious if anyone knows anything about this combination. I've done a google search and a search on this board, and neither have turned up any detailed information.


Thanks for your help :smile:

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InvisibleMufungo
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Re: Psilocin and Moclobemide [Re: asdfasd]
    #10612727 - 07/02/09 11:18 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Moclobemide is an MAOI so I'd expect it to increase the effects of the shrooms.


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Offlineasdfasd
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Re: Psilocin and Moclobemide [Re: Mufungo]
    #10613082 - 07/03/09 12:34 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

It's an MAOI, but it's a reversible one, so it's an RIMA. Would this change anything?

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Offlineaus2canabasiva
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Re: Psilocin and Moclobemide [Re: asdfasd] * 1
    #20315204 - 07/23/14 09:49 AM (9 years, 7 months ago)

From what I understand, being that Moclobemide is a reversible MAOI, it isn't as dangerous as a irreversible MAOI.

If you use Moclobemide on a regular basis i believe it will dampen the psychedelic effects of Psilocin.  " if an MAOI is taken too frequently, then the clinical effects (increased concentration of monoamines all over the brain) will actually block the desired effects of the psychedelic"

If you use Moclobemide as a once off with your Psylocibe's it will potentiate the effects.


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D ivine M oments of T ruth :mushroom2: :shroompick: :mushroom2: :ganja:
It's paradise, for mine is a generation, that circles the globe in search of something we haven't tried before, so never refuse an invitation never resist the unfamiliar, never fail to be polite and never outstay your welcome, Just Keep your mind open and suck in the experience and if it hurts its's probably worth it.

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OfflineSabnock
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Re: Psilocin and Moclobemide [Re: aus2canabasiva]
    #20315586 - 07/23/14 11:53 AM (9 years, 7 months ago)

How will it dampen the effects of Psilocin? I haven't worked with Shrooms, but i do take Ayahuasca quite frequently and haven't noticed a dampening on the DMT's effects, but i'd imagine Psilohuasca wouldn't be much different whether it's with Harmalas or Moclobemide.


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Offlines240779
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Re: Psilocin and Moclobemide [Re: Sabnock]
    #20316312 - 07/23/14 03:01 PM (9 years, 7 months ago)

Yeah, I've heard that long-term MAOi use can affect serotonin in such a way that psychedelics will, paradoxially, be dampened, contrary to the intensifying effects that MAOis provide to the trip when a person isn't medicating with the MAOi but rather just taking it in combination with the psychedelic.

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OfflineSabnock
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Re: Psilocin and Moclobemide [Re: s240779]
    #20319558 - 07/24/14 01:28 AM (9 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Da2ra said:
Yeah, I've heard that long-term MAOi use can affect serotonin in such a way that psychedelics will, paradoxially, be dampened, contrary to the intensifying effects that MAOis provide to the trip when a person isn't medicating with the MAOi but rather just taking it in combination with the psychedelic.




Actually i think it's the opposite. It's been proven that regular use of Ayahuasca causes up-regulation and receptor sensitization, thus causing a reverse tolerance, while taking something like Shrooms on their own, they build up a tolerance due to down-regulation and receptor de-sensitization.

Whether it's Moclobemide or Harmalas, MAO-A inhibition makes you more sensitive to the Shrooms or DMT.

I take Ayahuasca pretty much on a nightly basis, i haven't noticed any dampening of it's effects.


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Offlines240779
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Re: Psilocin and Moclobemide [Re: Sabnock]
    #20320359 - 07/24/14 07:58 AM (9 years, 7 months ago)

Big difference between frequent ayahuasca use (DMT + MAOI) and once-twice daily MAOi use. Equating the two is completely ridiculous.

I was aware of that ayahuasca thing you mentioned, by the way: http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showthreaded.php/Number/19609355/vc/1

Edited by s240779 (07/24/14 09:11 AM)

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OfflineSabnock
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Re: Psilocin and Moclobemide [Re: s240779]
    #20321083 - 07/24/14 12:00 PM (9 years, 7 months ago)

Well i've never seen anything that has ever mentioned a dampening of a Psychedelics effects by the long term use of reversible MAO-A inhibition. If someone has a single case of this happening, i would like to know.

Btw, it's not MAOI, it's RIMA. People seriously need to get that straight.

What i have heard of that dampens Psychedelic effects though, is long term use of SSRI's and of course anti-psychotics, but i've never heard of long term RIMA's doing that.


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Re: Psilocin and Moclobemide [Re: Sabnock]
    #20321120 - 07/24/14 12:11 PM (9 years, 7 months ago)
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Quote:

Sabnock said:
Well i've never seen anything that has ever mentioned a dampening of a Psychedelics effects by the long term use of reversible MAO-A inhibition. If someone has a single case of this happening, i would like to know.




The reference is Jonathan Ott. I used to have it, but I lost it in a hard drive crash.


edit

Might be in this document: Ayahuasca Analogues. Jonathan Ott, 1994.


edit 2

Nope, it's not in that book. I remember reading about it, distinctly. That's how I was familiar with what was brought up in this thread, after all. It was in an essay or something written by Jonathan Ott and what he said was that he had seen evidence that people on MAOIs, which used to be popular antidepresssants, had greatly diminished trips and he thought it was remarkable when he found out that people were actually using MAOIs to enhance e.g. shroom trips. I don't remember if he made the statement about the long term effect vs. the short term effect or if it was something I surmised.

Here's one source for the claim that long term MAOI use diminishes effects. Scroll to the end of the article:

The Interactions between Hallucinogens and Antidepressants: Summary of Results from Online Survey and Online Interviews. Kit Bonson, Oct 3, 1994


Quote:

Sabnock said:
Btw, it's not MAOI, it's RIMA. People seriously need to get that straight.




RIMA is just a minor specification in the MAOI category. You don't know what you're talking about. RIMA is just something that can be used within a technical document for specification purposes.


β-Carboline alkaloids in Peganum harmala and inhibition of human monoamine oxidase (MAO). T. Herraiz, D. González, C. Ancín-Azpilicueta, V.J. Arán, H. Guillén. Food and Chemical Toxicology, Volume 48, Issue 3, March 2010, Pages 839-845, ISSN 0278-6915, DOI: 10.1016/j.fct.2009.12.019. download

Edited by s240779 (07/24/14 01:11 PM)

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OfflineSabnock
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Re: Psilocin and Moclobemide [Re: s240779]
    #20321823 - 07/24/14 03:21 PM (9 years, 7 months ago)

Da2ra, with all due respect, i do not agree with you. And btw, RIMA's are NOT MAOI's, RIMA's inhibit MAO-A, BIG DIFFERENCE. I am so effing tired of having to point this out to people, because there IS a difference, a MAJOR difference, between RIMA's and MAOI's. Irreversible MAOI's or non-selective MAOI's, could very well potentially dampen the effects of Psychedelics through long term use of the MAOI's, because of how irreversible MAOI's work, which is different than how RIMA's work (especially because of duration of action)... i don't know that for a fact, but i've never seen information regarding long term RIMA use leading to diminished Psychedelic effects.

And btw, i know exactly what i'm talking about, i've done an "extensive" amount of research on the matter back in 2012, i've never before heard of any of this until just these last few days from this thread. Once again, there IS a distinction between RIMA's and MAOI's, they are NOT the same, and anyone who says they are, obviously doesn't know their shit and needs to hit the books again.


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Offlines240779
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Re: Psilocin and Moclobemide [Re: Sabnock]
    #20322652 - 07/24/14 06:01 PM (9 years, 7 months ago)

Oh, I know there's a difference, it's just that I don't necessarily think one has to call RIMAs RIMAs

I fail to see why only constant use of an irreversible MAOI would be the only situation in which one's sensitivity to psychedelics would be decreased. Constant use of a reversible MAOI is practically equivalent to use of an irreversible, because it's being used constantly.

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OfflineSabnock
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Re: Psilocin and Moclobemide [Re: s240779]
    #20323080 - 07/24/14 07:10 PM (9 years, 7 months ago)

Idk, i just don't have the answer. The only things i've ever known that kill or dampen Psychedelics, are SSRI's and anti-psychotics. I've never heard of MAOI's, more specifically RIMA's, negatively affecting the use of a Psychedelic.


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Offlineaus2canabasiva
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Re: Psilocin and Moclobemide [Re: Sabnock]
    #20325392 - 07/25/14 05:39 AM (9 years, 7 months ago)

This is the thread I quoted from if anyone is interested, http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/512679-Moclobemide-converting-psilocybin-into-DMT
'POST 13'

And to clarify "reversible MAOI, it isn't as dangerous as a irreversible MAOI." I should say not as long lasting not "as dangerous"

I'm no scientist but i found this subject interesting and thought I'd cross some info over for anyone looking into trying Moclobemide and Psilocybin.

I am looking for the essay by Jonathan Ott, I think the guy who I quoted also may have read the article.

Peace.


--------------------
D ivine M oments of T ruth :mushroom2: :shroompick: :mushroom2: :ganja:
It's paradise, for mine is a generation, that circles the globe in search of something we haven't tried before, so never refuse an invitation never resist the unfamiliar, never fail to be polite and never outstay your welcome, Just Keep your mind open and suck in the experience and if it hurts its's probably worth it.

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Offlineallnamestaken
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Re: Psilocin and Moclobemide [Re: aus2canabasiva]
    #20364132 - 08/02/14 10:16 AM (9 years, 6 months ago)

Will it potentiate if taken weekly?

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