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Chronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
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Re: Untainted happiness being our nature [Re: circastes]
#20330660 - 07/26/14 05:04 AM (9 years, 6 months ago) |
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circastes said: Is this the essence of spirituality? The bliss of godliness, your own Self revealed, never lost never forgotten only journeying within itself with the use of the illusion of mind - some power it has to play with itself... finally, one day, rediscovers itself, usually in the later twilight years of life but in the true religious seeker comes early, these eager and thirsty souls, these sons of God... maybe in their twenties or thirties, they find out that...
...it is but your own nature that you have sought long after, your own essence... the eternal untainted happiness of nothing but what you essentially are.
Is that the essence of spirituality, is it the ultimate spiritual prize? Yourself, eternal and free, surely playing some trick on yourself... finally comes home and that's that.
Is there anything more spiritual?
All words miss the mark but that's pretty much it, realizing beyond belief that 'it', what you seek, however you word it, love, truth, peace, happiness, bliss, awareness, the universe, the source, infinity, is what you essentially are
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deCypher said: Nope, disagree entirely.
Our true "nature" isn't any kind of emotion. Happiness is an emotion, bliss is an emotion, so is pain and so is suffering.
If truth exists then in my opinion it must be true all the time, it must be lasting, permanent, and existent/true unto itself so beyond dependence on opposites for its existence, like DeCypher pointed out above it can't really be an emotion as no emotion lasts for very long and they all have opposites
So truth can't be an emotion, but that's not to say it isn't happiness/bliss, as strictly speaking is bliss even an emotion? is bliss a form of energy in motion? does bliss itself come & go? Sure our attention can move, come & go, so our experience of different states comes & goes, but that's not proof that bliss itself comes & goes and therefore proof that bliss isn't synonymous with truth
The happiness we usually experience appears to come & go as it is usually in reference to some temporary thing having brought about the feeling of bliss, so when the desired thing goes or we no longer desire it the happiness appears to go along with it, so from that perspective calling our true nature happiness isn't right, as what lasting bliss is there in temporary things? That isn't proof that bliss itself is a temporary thing, just that our attribution of it is
We use language to describe what we feel and experience, and in this sense happiness is an emotion, but only for the sake of language, if we look closer at it, when we feel bliss is that feeling on the move? Is bliss found in mental motion? Or isit felt/experienced/realized in and as stillness?
I like the term unalloyed happiness, as it is the same apparently moving/shapeshifting happiness we temporarily feel from worldly objects that come & go, but it is unalloyed, unmixed, untainted, distilled, straight up no mixer
No words are ever right when talking about truth, they are limited to pointers, signposts, if someone mistakes a signpost for the destination then they won't get anywhere
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HeartAndMind said: I don't really know. That's what I'm pondering lately on. I really don't know, but I'm sure as hell that all this suffering and sense of needing something is not true. I don't know now if I just stop striving for things, for the things that are essential for survival and overall physical well being I will be OK. Something tells me that I won't. But life will show anyway. There's that neediness to make things better or correct them for me. It's really driving me nuts. So I think that there's no thing that is spiritual. That's ever going to make me peaceful when I'll get it. Maybe when I'll recognize something which always was and I'll have no doubt that it will be. Maybe if there is such thing, then it must be here as well. Not as a thing.
Excuse me for my rant, just felt like that. And your thread was there, very related. 
What else can you do that you're not already doing? You seem to be surviving pretty fine to me, you're working towards a sustainable future and also have time to contemplate existence
Maybe if you gave full attention to attaining things of the world you could have surplus to survival, but you don't strike me as the kinda guy that would find those things satisfying for long... you tend to have your sights set higher
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Chronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
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Re: Untainted happiness being our nature [Re: HeartAndMind]
#20330673 - 07/26/14 05:12 AM (9 years, 6 months ago) |
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HeartAndMind said:
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What else can you do that you're not already doing?
That got me pondering over my so called problems. Thank you.
You're welcome
My next question is - are you the doer of anything?
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Chronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
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Re: Untainted happiness being our nature [Re: HeartAndMind]
#20330779 - 07/26/14 06:27 AM (9 years, 6 months ago) |
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A few people have said the only choice you have is to inquire into reality or not, i say that even that is predetermined
If anyone looks within themselves and can find a doer, let me know
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Chronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
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Re: Untainted happiness being our nature [Re: HeartAndMind]
#20331189 - 07/26/14 09:14 AM (9 years, 6 months ago) |
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HeartAndMind said:
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The Chronic said:
If anyone looks within themselves and can find a doer, let me know
Oh, there's no such entity as doer.
Do you feel the freedom in that or is it intellectual knowledge?
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Chronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
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Re: Untainted happiness being our nature [Re: deff]
#20359465 - 08/01/14 08:55 AM (9 years, 5 months ago) |
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The way i see it is that your identity dissolves/merges into Ananda to the point that you are that, til there's no differentiation anymore, no more ups & downs, so total peace, you go through all the blissfull experiences to keep you on the right track or even sometimes throw you off it but when you've arrived you're no longer chasing blissfull experiences, you've become an emobodyment/beacon of bliss, there's no differentiation between bliss & yourself, experience & experiencer
That being said it can be good to aim for equanimity, neutrality etc when seeking truth, so as to really go all the way beyond conviction, it can be good to reject blissfull experiences in favor of stable truth, but most people would be kidding themselves saying they don't chase after bliss
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Chronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
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Re: Untainted happiness being our nature [Re: deCypher]
#20363525 - 08/02/14 04:45 AM (9 years, 5 months ago) |
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Deviate said:
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The Chronic said: The way i see it is that your identity dissolves/merges into Ananda to the point that you are that, til there's no differentiation anymore, no more ups & downs, so total peace, you go through all the blissfull experiences to keep you on the right track or even sometimes throw you off it but when you've arrived you're no longer chasing blissfull experiences, you've become an emobodyment/beacon of bliss, there's no differentiation between bliss & yourself, experience & experiencer
That being said it can be good to aim for equanimity, neutrality etc when seeking truth, so as to really go all the way beyond conviction, it can be good to reject blissfull experiences in favor of stable truth, but most people would be kidding themselves saying they don't chase after bliss
Do you think it would be correct to say that relative to the physical world or the worlds of form, in which there appears to be a duality between those worlds and the one who perceives them, the perceiver is in fact nothing and neutral but further examination reveals that the seer and seen are actually not separate but together form one thing and the nature of this thing is love and bliss?
I don't think it would ever be 100% correct to say anything about anything, we just give it our best shot, but i don't think what you said there was way off the mark
Your comment made me think of something i started becoming aware of while having an orgasm a few years ago, that love/bliss/happiness is felt in unity, whether that be unity with food, the opposite sex, an activity, or unity of the seer & the seen, when we unify it feels good, to me this implied something fundamental about the universe and the nature of separation/unity and spurred me on the great search
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deCypher said:
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The Chronic said: it can be good to reject blissfull experiences in favor of stable truth
This is what I strive for.
I have tried chasing bliss and it led me nowhere but downwards. Ultimately I still believe the true nature of Reality is inapplicable for any of our human labels, including "love" and "bliss". Neutrality is the best word I can think of to describe it, but of course even that is a human label in the end.
Ah, well, mysticism + language... what can you do? Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must remain silent. 
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