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InvisibleLazerouth
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The mysteries at eleusis
    #2030752 - 10/22/03 12:13 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Wrong forum


Edited by Lazerouth (10/22/03 02:52 AM)


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Offlineneuro
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Re: The mysteries at eleusis [Re: Lazerouth]
    #2031885 - 10/22/03 11:30 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Eleusis was place where a secret religion of Greece congregated to eat rye infected with ergot fungus to produce visions. Many prominent greeks attended these ceremonies including Cicero. It is even referred to in the bible in John:12 20-24.


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InvisibleHermes_br
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Re: The mysteries at eleusis [Re: Lazerouth]
    #2032072 - 10/22/03 12:47 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)



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Offlinemr_minds_eye
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Re: The mysteries at eleusis [Re: neuro]
    #2032289 - 10/22/03 02:08 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

I was under the impression that it was ergot infected barley. Ergot is supposed to grow on just about any cerial grain. Small detail though...


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Our quest for discovery fuels our creativity in all fields, not just science. If we reached the end of the line, the human spirit would shrivel and die. But I don't think we will ever stand still: we shall increase in complexity, if not in depth, and shall always be the center on an expanding horizon of possibilities.
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Offlineneuro
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Re: The mysteries at eleusis [Re: mr_minds_eye]
    #2033627 - 10/22/03 08:49 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

well whatever it was.. i just wrote that up from what i knew/remember from my head. Rye, barley.. whatever it is, it's grain/wheat


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InvisibleLazerouth
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Re: The mysteries at eleusis [Re: neuro]
    #2034297 - 10/23/03 12:10 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

i dont think its ergot. people say that because demeter is pictured with barley at the festivals but she is the goddess of agriculture and barley is her symbol. plus ergot is deadly an no one was sposed to have died at eleusis.


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Offlinegnrm23
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Re: The mysteries at eleusis [Re: Lazerouth]
    #2035366 - 10/23/03 08:46 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)



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Offlinegnrm23
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Re: The mysteries at eleusis [Re: gnrm23]
    #2035368 - 10/23/03 08:48 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)



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InvisibleHermes_br
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Re: The mysteries at eleusis [Re: gnrm23]
    #2035456 - 10/23/03 09:42 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

here's what the link i gave above is about:

Mixing the Kykeon
Summary Text of a Presentation Delivered to
The Italian Society for the Study of States Of Consciousness
Perinaldo, Italy, August 29, 2003
By Peter Webster

" There are two texts:

Mixing the kykeon summary text.rtf
this one is a condensed version of the text of the lecture

Mixing the kykeon final draft.pdf
this one is our paper in the journal ELEUSIS to which the lecture refers.

The .jpg files are the illustrations, and you will need to download them to disc to view them as they are larger resolution than can be shown in IE or Netscape. "



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Offlineneuro
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Re: The mysteries at eleusis [Re: Lazerouth]
    #2035505 - 10/23/03 10:13 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Ergot doesn't kill normal healthy people.


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Offlinesantashroom
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Re: The mysteries at eleusis [Re: neuro]
    #2035546 - 10/23/03 10:47 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

It can give them gangrene though.


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Offlinesantashroom
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Re: The mysteries at eleusis [Re: santashroom]
    #2035572 - 10/23/03 11:03 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

John 12 20-25 doesn't refer to the ceremonies but is a parable were jesus tries to explain to the disciples that he must die so that many others can take his place to spread the religion.

A seed of rye has to die so a plant can be born to produce even more seeds! So jesus must die so his seeds(the disciples) can spread more seeds and so on and so on.

There's no way the Catholic church would allow such references in the book.



Edited by santashroom (10/23/03 11:06 AM)


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Offlinemr_minds_eye
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Re: The mysteries at eleusis [Re: santashroom]
    #2035765 - 10/23/03 12:31 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

santashroom said:
It can give them gangrene though.




I think that is from prolonged exposure. Plus think about all of the uses of tropain alkaloid containing plants through out history. I know it's a little different, but I feel that it is a similar situation. I think the reason why Holfman was looking for ergotamine compounds for medical purposes is because ergot has been used in folk medicines.


--------------------
Our quest for discovery fuels our creativity in all fields, not just science. If we reached the end of the line, the human spirit would shrivel and die. But I don't think we will ever stand still: we shall increase in complexity, if not in depth, and shall always be the center on an expanding horizon of possibilities.
-Stephen Hawking


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Offlinethe man
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Re: The mysteries at eleusis [Re: mr_minds_eye]
    #2035856 - 10/23/03 01:07 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

no ergot doesnt kill people even though it is toxic. it is belived ergot poisoning in rye bread was where the werewolf story comes from. people would be come poisoned and they would get "crazy" and wouldnt sleep and such. i belive they where killed because of their demonic acts.

ergotomine is perscribed for skitzophrenia no? or some other thing i belive. anyoen clear that up?


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Offlineneuro
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Re: The mysteries at eleusis [Re: santashroom]
    #2035881 - 10/23/03 01:13 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

It doesn't directly refer to the ceremonies at eleusis but it is an indirect reference to it. Greece, walking to a feast, and grain consumption. The ceremonies at eleusis were described as a feast of grain. Jesus seems to be using that as a quantifier for his position. Predicting his own death and an explanation as to why he must die.


Also ergot poisoning of bread in the new world was said to be a contributing factor of Witch hysteria.


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Offlineneuro
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Re: The mysteries at eleusis [Re: the man]
    #2035887 - 10/23/03 01:14 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

I also know only of ergotamine compounds used in treating migraine headaches.


Schizophrenia treatment relies mainly on anti-psychotics/sedatives and dopeamine pathway inhibitors.


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Offlinethe man
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Re: The mysteries at eleusis [Re: neuro]
    #2036048 - 10/23/03 01:56 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

but i belive teh poisoning would ruin your gums making your teeth look bigger and thats where the werewolf came from. oh course i dotn know the action on teh gums but this is what i read somewhere


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InvisibleXochitl
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Re: The mysteries at eleusis [Re: neuro]
    #2036217 - 10/23/03 02:41 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Also ergot poisoning of bread in the new world was said to be a contributing factor of Witch hysteria.




And supposedly the inspiration of Hieronymus Bosch as well.


--------------------
As we know, there are known knowns. There are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns. That is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns, the ones we don't know we don't know.

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InvisibleLazerouth
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Re: The mysteries at eleusis [Re: Xochitl]
    #2038951 - 10/24/03 04:10 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

St. anthony's fire isnt our friend. If it is really not deadly then why aren't people trying to eat the stuff? I've heard of people getting high off some stupid shit but never ergot.

Speaking of stupid drugs another candidate is honey made from nightshade nectar.



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Offlinecanid
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Re: The mysteries at eleusis [Re: Lazerouth]
    #2039029 - 10/24/03 04:59 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

it is my understanding that ergotism is primarily dangerous with prolnged, repeated ingestion. this is what causes gangrenous ergotism at any rate.

sa far as the connection between germanic superstition and erogt, there was a ducumkentary at one point showing a really interesting overlay of a graph of dated, documented witchcraft/wherewolf reports and seasonal conditions supportive of largescale infestation of grain crops with ergot.

i don't remember verry well.

ergotamine and other ergot alkaloids are not our friends at all.


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