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Offlineimachavel
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Israels criminal shelling of gaza
    #20304998 - 07/21/14 08:37 AM (9 years, 6 months ago)

http://www.marxist.com/israels-criminal-shelling-of-gaza-and-imperialist-hypocrisy.htm

" A storm of bombs and fire grotesquely denominated “Operation Protective Edge” has been unleashed by the Israeli government on the civilian population of Gaza. Over the last days more than 400 tonnes of high potential bombs have hit targets within the densely populated Gaza Strip, killing at least 100 civilians, including many children, and injuring hundreds.
Meanwhile, Gaza is cut off from medical supplies and any form of aid, because of the Egyptian government’s decision to close down all tunnels through the border, which were used for smuggling in arms, but also food, fuel, medicines and almost all that is needed for the survival of the population, with the result of making the civilian casualties even worse. This attack launched by the Israeli army has no justification, in spite of all the excuses made up by the international media."

Do you agree with the article at all? Why or why not? Discuss


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Israels criminal shelling of gaza [Re: imachavel]
    #20305397 - 07/21/14 11:05 AM (9 years, 6 months ago)

Agree with the article.

Three Israelis killed. Ok, they found the dudes.


There is absolutely no justification for Israel's actions.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Israels criminal shelling of gaza [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #20305534 - 07/21/14 11:51 AM (9 years, 6 months ago)

You mean there's no justification you agree with.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Offlinepsilynut
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Re: Israels criminal shelling of gaza [Re: imachavel] * 1
    #20305677 - 07/21/14 12:37 PM (9 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

But these rockets have proven to be totally ineffective and easy for the sophisticated Israeli military defence to detect and destroy after they have been launched. Israeli towns which could be targeted by these rockets are secured and safe refuges are available in case of emergency. Proof of this is that so far civilian casualties in Israel have amounted to zero, compared to over 100 victims among the Palestinians. These figures alone speak clearly on who the real aggressor is and the disproportionate amount of firepower between the two sides



 
  So I guess the author of this article is saying Israel should not do anything until the rockets are more sophisticated , more accurate , more deadly and produce an appropriate amount of casualties .
And the people who live where the rockets land are good at hiding from rockets anyway so....
  If you are just really nice to the people who believe you have no right to exist no matter what,  perhaps they will change their mind.


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Offlineimachavel
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Re: Israels criminal shelling of gaza [Re: psilynut]
    #20305816 - 07/21/14 01:21 PM (9 years, 6 months ago)

Actually, let me edit. I believe I'd defend Israels right to defend itself if Gaza was allowed free trade and unblocked immigration. Its hard for me to defend Gaza either, why is Hama's representing them? To me it seems it'd make more sense if insurgents did not represent Gaza's intentions. But more or less Israel to me over decades, if not today, seems to justify its actions saying they are religiously persecuted. Its ignorance to me to use the Jewish persecution defense crutch.

Oh well, w/e whats the damn use. The entire middle east is like a blister on the face of the earth that needs to be popped with a few nukes.

I may even go too far saying this, but to me no religion that exists in that country should even be recognized anymore :shrug: I'm sorry religion that justifies murder should be abolished


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:kingcrankey: I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!

:facepalm: I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk


Edited by imachavel (07/21/14 01:49 PM)


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Israels criminal shelling of gaza [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #20305864 - 07/21/14 01:33 PM (9 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
You mean there's no justification you agree with.




Their reasons are not justifiable for their actions.


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Offlineimachavel
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Re: Israels criminal shelling of gaza [Re: imachavel]
    #20305881 - 07/21/14 01:36 PM (9 years, 6 months ago)

For too long

http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/20436092

And what is Obama doing?

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN0FQ1JC20140721?irpc=932

A ceasefire? Oh wait I mean, yeah a ceasefire. The right decision. For some reason I thought we might be secretly assisting Israel. With air strikes. Like when Gadaffi was found and raped and killed without a trial.

Ok so anyway I'm not saying we will eventually intervene like always but if we did, who do you think we would assist? Israel right? We see Hamas like insurgents, which they are, but what makes one side more innocent then the other? I should post facts but would like further input on this discussion before I continue to describe why I think both sides are equally guilty fighting a pointless war


--------------------
:kingcrankey: I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!

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Offlineimachavel
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Re: Israels criminal shelling of gaza [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #20305885 - 07/21/14 01:36 PM (9 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Their reasons are not justifiable for their actions.




Agreed


--------------------
:kingcrankey: I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!

:facepalm: I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Israels criminal shelling of gaza [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #20306138 - 07/21/14 02:38 PM (9 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
You mean there's no justification you agree with.




Their reasons are not justifiable for their actions.




According to you. Many disagree. I'm surprised they waited this long. This is how they should respond each and every time a rocket is fired at them.

I doubt many other nations would have put up with what the Israelis have. China wouldn't. Russia wouldn't. The US sure wouldn't.

Why should the Israelis?


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Israels criminal shelling of gaza [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #20306323 - 07/21/14 03:31 PM (9 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
I'm surprised they waited this long. This is how they should respond each and every time a rocket is fired at them.



Every rocket launch fired against Israel is in response to something Israel did, which was in resonse to something Palestine did, which was in response to...

Neither side is ever willing to say "you got the last shot, not let's stop".


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I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Offlineimachavel
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Re: Israels criminal shelling of gaza [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #20306371 - 07/21/14 03:40 PM (9 years, 6 months ago)

Of course not, that would require maturity. And murder does not represent maturity.

I could sit here and say, "well if Israel allowed Gaza to do this....... Then no fighting would amount to much because......" But that would indicate rationality. Muslims and Jews hate each other. Its that simple, unfortunately

I wish it wasn't. Sad times for people in sad places, is all that can be said


--------------------
:kingcrankey: I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!

:facepalm: I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Israels criminal shelling of gaza [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #20306427 - 07/21/14 03:51 PM (9 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
I'm surprised they waited this long. This is how they should respond each and every time a rocket is fired at them.



Every rocket launch fired against Israel is in response to something Israel did, which was in resonse to something Palestine did, which was in response to...

Neither side is ever willing to say "you got the last shot, not let's stop".




Yet Israel does, until Hamas or the others start up again. They choose not to respond, they release prisoners, they gave Gaza to people that hate Israel. Despite that, Hamas (and others) seem to always start shit again.

Frankly, I wouldn't care if the Earth opened up and swallowed that entire region but one side is clearly the aggressor.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Israels criminal shelling of gaza [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #20306577 - 07/21/14 04:20 PM (9 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
You mean there's no justification you agree with.




Their reasons are not justifiable for their actions.




According to you. Many disagree. I'm surprised they waited this long. This is how they should respond each and every time a rocket is fired at them.

I doubt many other nations would have put up with what the Israelis have. China wouldn't. Russia wouldn't. The US sure wouldn't.

Why should the Israelis?





More people die in the US from vending machines than Israelis die because of Hamas.

Should we start shelling PepsiCo with warheads?


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Israels criminal shelling of gaza [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #20306659 - 07/21/14 04:35 PM (9 years, 6 months ago)

If they start using catapults to willy-nilly shoot their machines into population centers, then yes.

In the meantime the harm the machines cause is generally self inflicted. Much like the harm that befalls those who are stupid enough to lob unguided missiles into population centers.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineSmokey420
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Re: Israels criminal shelling of gaza [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #20306700 - 07/21/14 04:41 PM (9 years, 6 months ago)

The hundreds of innocent civilians killed in this conflict had no part in shooting rockets into Israeli. Disgusting how some people will try to justify what is essentially genocide.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Israels criminal shelling of gaza [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #20306723 - 07/21/14 04:48 PM (9 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Yet Israel does.



When was that?

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
They choose not to respond, they release prisoners, they gave Gaza to people that hate Israel. Despite that, Hamas (and others) seem to always start shit again.



You don't think there's a list of grievances from Palestine?

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Frankly, I wouldn't care if the Earth opened up and swallowed that entire region but one side is clearly the aggressor.



Clearly.



--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Israels criminal shelling of gaza [Re: Smokey420]
    #20306728 - 07/21/14 04:49 PM (9 years, 6 months ago)

You should go look up genocide. It doesn't apply.

Those in Gaza know how to stop the attacks. They choose not to.

I find wanton acts of terror, like shooting unguided missiles into population centers, to be what is disgusting. How do you justify that?


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Israels criminal shelling of gaza [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #20306751 - 07/21/14 04:53 PM (9 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Yet Israel does.



When was that?

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
They choose not to respond, they release prisoners, they gave Gaza to people that hate Israel. Despite that, Hamas (and others) seem to always start shit again.



You don't think there's a list of grievances from Palestine?

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Frankly, I wouldn't care if the Earth opened up and swallowed that entire region but one side is clearly the aggressor.



Clearly.






Last week. Actually, a better answer is "repeatedly".

I don't give a shit about both sides list. My issue is with the rockets.

Your map is in error. There never was a Palestine.

As long as one side launches unguided rockets at civilian areas, they are the aggressors. And as long as they continue to do so, Israel is completely justified in responding.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


Edited by luvdemshrooms (07/21/14 04:53 PM)


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Israels criminal shelling of gaza [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #20306911 - 07/21/14 05:23 PM (9 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
You should go look up genocide. It doesn't apply.

Those in Gaza know how to stop the attacks. They choose not to.

I find wanton acts of terror, like shooting unguided missiles into population centers, to be what is disgusting. How do you justify that?




What the fuck kind of logic is that?

Should US citizens be responsible for all the criminals around them? Should they have to pay with their lives if they don't?


How many of the 520+ dead were Hamas? Israel doesn't know, Palestinians don't know, and you sure as shit don't know.


By the way here's the definition of genocide:


gen·o·cide/ˈjenəˌsīd/
noun

    the deliberate killing of a large group of people, especially those of a particular ethnic group or nation.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Israels criminal shelling of gaza [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #20306933 - 07/21/14 05:26 PM (9 years, 6 months ago)

It's what you called it. Logic.

No rockets into Israel, no Israel bombs or troops into Gaza. It's quite a simple concept. How is it that it escapes you?


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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