Home | Community | Message Board


Zamnesia.com
Please support our sponsors.

General Interest >> Political Discussion

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Jump to first unread post. Pages: 1 | 2 | Next >  [ show all ]
InvisibleEdame
gone

Registered: 01/14/03
Posts: 1,270
Loc: outta here
"There is no W.M.D.?
    #2028501 - 10/21/03 01:34 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

It's fairly long, but I thought it was a well written piece that discusses the state of intelligence that lead to the war. Here are a couple of the more telling quotes:


The notes said that Jafar was then asked, ?But this doesn?t mean all W.M.D.? How can you be certain?? His answer was clear: ?I know all the scientists involved, and they chat. There is no W.M.D.?
...
Jafar had his own explanation, according to the notes, for one of the enduring mysteries of the U.N. inspection process?the six-thousand-warhead discrepancy between the number of chemical weapons thought to have been manufactured by Iraq before 1991 and the number that were accounted for by the U.N. inspection teams. It was this discrepancy which led Western intelligence officials and military planners to make the worst-case assumptions. Jafar told his interrogators that the Iraqi government had simply lied to the United Nations about the number of chemical weapons used against Iran during the brutal Iran-Iraq war in the nineteen-eighties. Iraq, he said, dropped thousands more warheads on the Iranians than it acknowledged. For that reason, Saddam preferred not to account for the weapons at all.


http://www.newyorker.com/printable/?fact/031027fa_fact


--------------------
The above is an extract from my fictional novel, "The random postings of Edame".
:tongue:

In the beginning was the word. And man could not handle the word, and the hearing of the word, and he asked God to take away his ears so that he might live in peace without having to hear words which might upset his equinamity or corrupt the unblemished purity of his conscience.

And God, hearing this desperate plea from His creation, wrinkled His mighty brow for a moment and then leaned down toward man, beckoning that he should come close so as to hear all that was about to be revealed to him.

"Fuck you," He whispered, and frowned upon the pathetic supplicant before retreating to His heavens.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinewingnutx
Registered: 09/25/00
Posts: 2,268
Last seen: 6 years, 1 month
Re: "There is no W.M.D.? [Re: Edame]
    #2028532 - 10/21/03 01:47 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

What happend to the anthrax that the UN catalogued before being driven out of Iraq? Some of it was verified destroyed.

Did Iraq secretly destroy the rest?

It cannot simply cease to exist.



Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinewingnutx
Registered: 09/25/00
Posts: 2,268
Last seen: 6 years, 1 month
Re: "There is no W.M.D.? [Re: Edame]
    #2028538 - 10/21/03 01:48 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Unscom was forced to quit Iraq in December 1998, with the team believing it had destroyed most of the 8,500 litres of concentrated anthrax and 19,000 litres of undiluted botulinum toxin that Saddam admitted he had after years denying a biological weapons programme. Anthrax production began in June 1990, on the eve of the invasion of Kuwait.


http://observer.guardian.co.uk/waronterrorism/story/0,1373,578030,00.html






Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinewingnutx
Registered: 09/25/00
Posts: 2,268
Last seen: 6 years, 1 month
Re: "There is no W.M.D.? [Re: Edame]
    #2028566 - 10/21/03 01:56 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

The article briefly aknowledges that a biological weapons program existed, then ignores it for the rest of the article.

Where did it go?


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinewingnutx
Registered: 09/25/00
Posts: 2,268
Last seen: 6 years, 1 month
Re: "There is no W.M.D.? [Re: Edame]
    #2028590 - 10/21/03 02:03 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

From your article:

"we are not yet at the point where we can say definitively either that such weapon stocks do not exist "

Sorry, this article cherry-picks facts to support it's pre-drawn conclusion.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleEdame
gone

Registered: 01/14/03
Posts: 1,270
Loc: outta here
Re: "There is no W.M.D.? [Re: wingnutx]
    #2028612 - 10/21/03 02:09 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

What did the 'program' consist of? What exactly are they looking for?


--------------------
The above is an extract from my fictional novel, "The random postings of Edame".
:tongue:

In the beginning was the word. And man could not handle the word, and the hearing of the word, and he asked God to take away his ears so that he might live in peace without having to hear words which might upset his equinamity or corrupt the unblemished purity of his conscience.

And God, hearing this desperate plea from His creation, wrinkled His mighty brow for a moment and then leaned down toward man, beckoning that he should come close so as to hear all that was about to be revealed to him.

"Fuck you," He whispered, and frowned upon the pathetic supplicant before retreating to His heavens.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineRonoS
DSYSB since '01
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/26/01
Posts: 16,243
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Last seen: 5 months, 15 days
Re: "There is no W.M.D.? [Re: wingnutx]
    #2028618 - 10/21/03 02:12 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

wingnutx said:
From your article:

"we are not yet at the point where we can say definitively either that such weapon stocks do not exist "

Sorry, this article cherry-picks facts to support it's pre-drawn conclusion.




If that's the best argument that you can come up with then you're gonna need to do better...

Of course they can't say for 100% certainty that they do not exist....just like you can't say for 100% certainty that they DO exist.


--------------------
"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleEdame
gone

Registered: 01/14/03
Posts: 1,270
Loc: outta here
Re: "There is no W.M.D.? [Re: wingnutx]
    #2028624 - 10/21/03 02:13 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

wingnutx said:
From your article:

"we are not yet at the point where we can say definitively either that such weapon stocks do not exist "

Sorry, this article cherry-picks facts to support it's pre-drawn conclusion.




How so? Can you elaborate?
I felt that the article was more about how intelligence was used to support the case for war.


--------------------
The above is an extract from my fictional novel, "The random postings of Edame".
:tongue:

In the beginning was the word. And man could not handle the word, and the hearing of the word, and he asked God to take away his ears so that he might live in peace without having to hear words which might upset his equinamity or corrupt the unblemished purity of his conscience.

And God, hearing this desperate plea from His creation, wrinkled His mighty brow for a moment and then leaned down toward man, beckoning that he should come close so as to hear all that was about to be revealed to him.

"Fuck you," He whispered, and frowned upon the pathetic supplicant before retreating to His heavens.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinewingnutx
Registered: 09/25/00
Posts: 2,268
Last seen: 6 years, 1 month
Re: "There is no W.M.D.? [Re: Rono]
    #2028627 - 10/21/03 02:14 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)


Yes, but they were proven to exist at one time, or else UN inspections regime was a fraud from the start. Do you believe that it was?

If so, then why should the reconstituted inspections regime under Blix be any different?

Either the UN has been lying the entire time, or the anthrax existed.

If it existed at one point, and was not verified destroyed, then where did it go?



Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinewingnutx
Registered: 09/25/00
Posts: 2,268
Last seen: 6 years, 1 month
Re: "There is no W.M.D.? [Re: Edame]
    #2028632 - 10/21/03 02:16 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

It ignores their biological weapons, ones physically tested and catalogued by UNSCOM. It also fails to mention the clandestine labs listed in the Kay report.

8500 liters is a lot of anthrax. Some of it was destroyed. Where is the rest of it?


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineRonoS
DSYSB since '01
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/26/01
Posts: 16,243
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Last seen: 5 months, 15 days
Re: "There is no W.M.D.? [Re: wingnutx]
    #2028639 - 10/21/03 02:18 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Like I said previously...no one is saying that the Anthrax never existed, it obviously did.

The majority has been destroyed...and even if there was some small remaining amounts left, the odds are that it is useless now...and even if it isn't, they have no means of deployment...so what point are you trying to make?


--------------------
"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleEdame
gone

Registered: 01/14/03
Posts: 1,270
Loc: outta here
Re: "There is no W.M.D.? [Re: wingnutx]
    #2028640 - 10/21/03 02:18 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

As far as I recall, most of the weapons were 'unaccounted for' rather than proven to exist, which Blix stated all along was not the same thing as saying that the weapons ever existed in the first place.


--------------------
The above is an extract from my fictional novel, "The random postings of Edame".
:tongue:

In the beginning was the word. And man could not handle the word, and the hearing of the word, and he asked God to take away his ears so that he might live in peace without having to hear words which might upset his equinamity or corrupt the unblemished purity of his conscience.

And God, hearing this desperate plea from His creation, wrinkled His mighty brow for a moment and then leaned down toward man, beckoning that he should come close so as to hear all that was about to be revealed to him.

"Fuck you," He whispered, and frowned upon the pathetic supplicant before retreating to His heavens.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinewingnutx
Registered: 09/25/00
Posts: 2,268
Last seen: 6 years, 1 month
Re: "There is no W.M.D.? [Re: Rono]
    #2028678 - 10/21/03 02:28 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Anthrax has an unlimited shelf life in spore form.

How much is left? 500 liters? 50?

Deliver system is a pair of sneakers. Dump a liter into the air duct of a Grand Central Station and you will have mass casualties and complete chaos.

If they kept any of their anthrax then they are in posession of WMDs that they were obligated to divulge and destroy.

Either they have them or they don't. 'Probably is expired' does not cut it.

UNSCOM proved that they had them at one point, then some of them disappeared, and Iraq refused to divulge what happened to them.

Either Iraq decided to secretly destroy them or they still exist.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineRonoS
DSYSB since '01
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/26/01
Posts: 16,243
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Last seen: 5 months, 15 days
Re: "There is no W.M.D.? [Re: wingnutx]
    #2028740 - 10/21/03 02:45 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

And you know for a fact that the Anthrax in question was in spore form?

By your logic, the U.S. should invade any country that has the capability of making anthrax?....Look out Canada....'cause I hear them sneaky Canucks have sneakers that carry anthrax as well...

My point is, that this whole Anthrax bullshit is a non-issue...and I'm not sure why you seem to keep focusing on it. Did Iraq have Anthrax?..Yes...so does the U.S. and Isreal and any other developed nation with a science lab.
Does Iraq have Anthrax now?...Highly unlikely...no it's not a definite answer, but given how much time the U.S. has been in Iraq, the chances of them finding anything lessens every day.


--------------------
"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisiblePsiloKitten
Ganja Goddess

Registered: 02/13/99
Posts: 1,617
Re: "There is no W.M.D.? [Re: Rono]
    #2028959 - 10/21/03 03:52 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Of course the Anthrax existed, we gave it to them.


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineLearyfan
It's the psychedelic movement!
Male User Gallery

Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 30,127
Loc: High pride!
Last seen: 7 hours, 18 minutes
Re: "There is no W.M.D.? [Re: Rono]
    #2028977 - 10/21/03 04:00 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

There must be some real justification for this war Rono.

I can not come to terms with the idea that my government would take us to war for no real reason.





--------------------
--------------------------------


Mp3 of the month: The Dovers - The Third Eye



Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: "There is no W.M.D.? [Re: wingnutx]
    #2028987 - 10/21/03 04:04 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Dump a liter into the air duct of a Grand Central Station and you will have mass casualties and complete chaos.

Nah, they dumped poison gas into a crowded tube station in Tokyo and the damage was negligble. It's a lot harder to use biological and chemical weapons effectively than you think.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineRonoS
DSYSB since '01
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/26/01
Posts: 16,243
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Last seen: 5 months, 15 days
Re: "There is no W.M.D.? [Re: Learyfan]
    #2029051 - 10/21/03 04:32 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

There must be some real justification for this war Rono.

I can not come to terms with the idea that my government would take us to war for no real reason.




...to secure oil reserves for the next generation of Americans...To tell the truth, I can't think of a better reason. I just wish they would just be honest about it.


--------------------
"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineLearyfan
It's the psychedelic movement!
Male User Gallery

Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 30,127
Loc: High pride!
Last seen: 7 hours, 18 minutes
Re: "There is no W.M.D.? [Re: Xlea321]
    #2029061 - 10/21/03 04:38 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

There must be some reason we invaded them then.

The government only does what is in the best interest of the people. Look at all the pot smokers in jail. That's 700,000 people per year that won't be selling drugs to kids in elementary schools.





--------------------
--------------------------------


Mp3 of the month: The Dovers - The Third Eye



Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineLearyfan
It's the psychedelic movement!
Male User Gallery

Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 30,127
Loc: High pride!
Last seen: 7 hours, 18 minutes
Re: "There is no W.M.D.? [Re: Rono]
    #2029064 - 10/21/03 04:40 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

We don't need petrolium. We should have moved away from it a long time ago.

Unfortunately the companies who own this country would lose a lot of money if we did that.





--------------------
--------------------------------


Mp3 of the month: The Dovers - The Third Eye



Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Jump to top. Pages: 1 | 2 | Next >  [ show all ]

General Interest >> Political Discussion

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* CENTCOM Sergeant Details Traitorous Stand Down Orders On 9/11 buckwheat 897 7 09/27/06 03:13 PM
by kotik
* Military Jury Convicts Sergeant of Murder
RandalFlagg
1,014 15 04/29/05 10:30 AM
by RandalFlagg
* Al-Jazeera Web Site Hacked, U.S. Flag Placed on Homepage
( 1 2 3 4 5 all )
LanaM 2,962 91 03/30/03 01:11 PM
by silversoul7
* Interviews with US veterans show for the first time the pattern of brutality in Iraq kotik 1,088 11 07/16/07 04:21 AM
by beatnicknick
* Police Caught On Tape Threatening To Destroy And Invent Evidence
( 1 2 3 all )
kotik 3,674 57 09/30/07 05:39 PM
by Crystal G
* SCOTUS upholds MCA....police state now law...
Annapurna1
1,845 16 04/05/07 06:02 AM
by Annapurna1
* Soldiers are voting with their feet FrankieJustTrypt 524 8 05/28/04 05:38 PM
by Tao
* *Ding! Ding!* We have a winner!
( 1 2 3 4 all )
Swami 2,106 71 07/12/04 04:24 PM
by Evolving

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Enlil
837 topic views. 1 members, 1 guests and 2 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Toggle Favorite | Print Topic | Stats ]
Search this thread:
Myco Supply
Please support our sponsors.

Copyright 1997-2017 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.044 seconds spending 0.006 seconds on 21 queries.