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Offlinewaffams
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First time: SGFC question--so fine perlite restricts airflow..
    #20273416 - 07/14/14 08:39 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Hey all,

Before I had done a lot of research I bought that fine Miracle Grow perlite--I've read from some that it works with just a bit worse results than coarse perlite, but the general consensus seems to be that it won't work. I'll be picking up coarse perlite as soon as money comes in, within 3-4 days at the very most. More if I can't find a store around here and have to order it online.

For now, I birthed a few small cakes into the chamber with the perlite. I washed it as well as I could and got all the finest stuff out, but it still probably isn't optimal.

My question is, would having a (very) small fan underneath the SGFC running on low strengh counteract my problem for a while? I know a lot of people suggest against having fans so close to the FC at all because it can dry it out, but since that applies to a properly constructed SGFC and the finer perlite restricts airflow through the bottom, maybe a small fan could counteract that in this case. Right now I have it a couple feet underneath the FC.

Any feedback?

I think it might be working decently, I have a few pins. Pics of the cakes and the fan for reference (cakes were fruited from between 3-5 days ago):





The fan:


Also, I think my hygrometer was too cheap. It has no adjustment knob and after trying calibrating it with a wet towel for an hour, and later, when I tried again, a couple hours, it read 60 each time. Any suggestions?



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Re: First time: SGFC question--so fine perlite restricts airflow.. [Re: waffams]
    #20273491 - 07/14/14 08:52 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

You'll be ok... there was a time we made cake bins without the SGFC.  Probably didn't work as well, but it still worked.  I wouldn't fret too much about it. :thumbup:

faht

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Re: First time: SGFC question--so fine perlite restricts airflow.. *DELETED* [Re: fahtster]
    #20273541 - 07/14/14 08:59 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

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Re: First time: SGFC question--so fine perlite restricts airflow.. [Re: fahtster]
    #20273543 - 07/14/14 08:59 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Ive always used miracle grow fine perlite. Thats all i can find.in my area, and it works just fine.

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Offlinewaffams
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Re: First time: SGFC question--so fine perlite restricts airflow.. [Re: Sanguin3]
    #20273609 - 07/14/14 09:11 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Sanguin3 said:
I wouldn't worry about the fan, I've used the miracle grow perlite before and it worked fine. Home depot or lowes should carry big bags of the coarse stuff. If you're worried just pick some up when you've got the money and you can swap it out, but your cakes should be fine until then without the fan.

Looks like you've got some decent pins with your current setup anyway though so you're fine either way. :thumbup:





Thanks everyone for your reassurance. I actually went to Home Depot and all they had was the miracle grow stuff. The reason I was worried was because of the humidity and how it seems to be really low, but I think that might just be my meter for the reasons stated in my original post.. that and the fact that there has been some standing water lingering on one of the pins, but it's probably just paranoia.

Thanks again everyone. Will update if anything significantly interesting happens :thumbup:


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Re: First time: SGFC question--so fine perlite restricts airflow.. *DELETED* [Re: waffams]
    #20273645 - 07/14/14 09:16 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

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Offlinewaffams
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Re: First time: SGFC question--so fine perlite restricts airflow.. [Re: Sanguin3]
    #20273721 - 07/14/14 09:28 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Looked first, only found miracle grow stuff, asked someone about it and they took me to the same place and that was all they had. It was the outdoors section. I'm going to try some specialty hydroponics shops around the city and hope they won't be too expensive.


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Re: First time: SGFC question--so fine perlite restricts airflow.. [Re: waffams]
    #20273819 - 07/14/14 09:45 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Forget about the perlite- its not an issue. Lose the fan and hygrometer- that's your issue. That hygrometer sucks- all of em do, honestly.

Mist the sides of the sgfc a few times a day and fan the hell out of it.

Besides that, you're on track.

GL and cheers

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Re: First time: SGFC question--so fine perlite restricts airflow.. *DELETED* [Re: Mykes logos]
    #20273846 - 07/14/14 09:49 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

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Offlinewaffams
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Re: First time: SGFC question--so fine perlite restricts airflow.. [Re: Sanguin3]
    #20274015 - 07/14/14 10:14 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Sanguin3 said:
Quote:

Mykes logos said:
Mist the sides of the sgfc a few times a day and fan the hell out of it.





:nojustno:

Mist the cakes and perlite directly. Misting the walls does very little if anything.




I typically mist a foot or so above the tub and let it fall evenly. I'm afraid that without enough FAE the water is standing on the pins, and there are little white spots on one or two that are making me worry a little too much.


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Re: First time: SGFC question--so fine perlite restricts airflow.. [Re: waffams]
    #20274135 - 07/14/14 10:35 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

a sgfc is riddled with holes...it' gets plenty of fae:thumbup:, to boot pins can be dunked with your cake and often double in size or more during that time so don't sweat it


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Offlinewaffams
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Re: First time: SGFC question--so fine perlite restricts airflow.. [Re: cronicr]
    #20274156 - 07/14/14 10:38 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

cronicr said:
a sgfc is riddled with holes...it' gets plenty of fae:thumbup:, to boot pins can be dunked with your cake and often double in size or more during that time so don't sweat it




Are you saying to dunk them again? Would that increase my yield?


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Re: First time: SGFC question--so fine perlite restricts airflow.. *DELETED* [Re: waffams]
    #20274171 - 07/14/14 10:40 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

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Re: First time: SGFC question--so fine perlite restricts airflow.. [Re: waffams]
    #20274181 - 07/14/14 10:42 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

gimme a minute lol, i haven't read the thread yet just responding to the  last post but in general yield and fruit size is gonna be dependant on genetics and available moisture from the sub and good conditions so if ever your cakes feel light before your first flush i'd say it's safe to dunk them again if needed but if there not too light just let it go and you can always sit it in a saucer of water over night even with pins on it


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Offlinewaffams
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Re: First time: SGFC question--so fine perlite restricts airflow.. [Re: Sanguin3]
    #20274183 - 07/14/14 10:43 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Sanguin3 said:
Quote:

waffams said:
Quote:

cronicr said:
a sgfc is riddled with holes...it' gets plenty of fae:thumbup:, to boot pins can be dunked with your cake and often double in size or more during that time so don't sweat it




Are you saying to dunk them again? Would that increase my yield?




He was just saying them getting a little wet isn't going to hurt. :thumbup:





Cool, appreciate all the patience guys. Guess I need to try some myself :rolleyes:


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Re: First time: SGFC question--so fine perlite restricts airflow.. [Re: waffams]
    #20274196 - 07/14/14 10:45 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

yeah  those look great,and the issues i see have been addressed just  mist as needed and you won't need the hygrometer


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Re: First time: SGFC question--so fine perlite restricts airflow.. [Re: Sanguin3]
    #20274225 - 07/14/14 10:51 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Sanguin3 said:
Quote:

Mykes logos said:
Mist the sides of the sgfc a few times a day and fan the hell out of it.





:nojustno:

Mist the cakes and perlite directly. Misting the walls does very little if anything.




I disagree- misting the walls will help you indicate when you need to mist again when you no longer see any condensation on the sides... you're trying to get 100% rH here. I don't know how big your SGFC is, but can you mist the walls without misting the cakes? Give it a whirl. Bet you get the whole damn thing all nice and moist :wink:

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Re: First time: SGFC question--so fine perlite restricts airflow.. *DELETED* [Re: Mykes logos]
    #20274241 - 07/14/14 10:53 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

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Edited by Sanguin3 (07/14/14 10:59 PM)

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Re: First time: SGFC question--so fine perlite restricts airflow.. [Re: Mykes logos]
    #20274248 - 07/14/14 10:55 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

:shake:sorry but your wrong, a sgfc will never have condensation or at least it shouldnb't because of the mass amounts of fae it takes in, we don't want 100% humidity in the chamber we want it on the surface of the cakes where it matters and can't be measured and this is achieved via misting directly as needed so misting the walls tells you nuthing, watch your cakes and fruits not your tub walls


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Re: First time: SGFC question--so fine perlite restricts airflow.. [Re: Sanguin3]
    #20274288 - 07/14/14 11:02 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Sanguin3 said:
Telling someone to "mist the sides of the sgfc" and having some overspray hit the sides when you mist the cakes are two totally different things.




Not really. You're misting... which will hit everything. I'm simply saying mist the sides b/c it can be helpful to determine when to mist again, if drafts in the room are affecting it, etc.... Op was already misting in general. Arguing about this doesn't make any sense...

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Re: First time: SGFC question--so fine perlite restricts airflow.. [Re: Mykes logos]
    #20274317 - 07/14/14 11:07 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Mykes logos said:
misting the walls will help you indicate when you need to mist again when you no longer see any condensation on the sides... you're trying to get 100% rH here.



It's not condensation if you put it there....it's simply water on the walls.

Look at the cakes to judge when it's time to mist again, that is what matters.

Quote:

Mykes logos said:
I don't know how big your SGFC is, but can you mist the walls without misting the cakes? Give it a whirl.



This would do all of nothing, please stop giving advice.

You want to mist the cakes, not the walls of the FC.

Misting the walls does nothing, misting the cakes replaces lost moisture from evaporation.

Moisture that the cakes need to produce mushrooms. And evaporation off the cakes is a main pinning trigger...not evaporation off the plastic tub.

Edited by PussyFart (07/14/14 11:17 PM)

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Offlinewaffams
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Re: First time: SGFC question--so fine perlite restricts airflow.. [Re: PussyFart]
    #20274338 - 07/14/14 11:14 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

While I hate arguments, I never would have known that if it weren't for you guys, so thanks. I actually think I've seen PussyFart making that point on a few other posts :tongue:


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Re: First time: SGFC question--so fine perlite restricts airflow.. *DELETED* [Re: Mykes logos]
    #20274345 - 07/14/14 11:15 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

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Offlinewaffams
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Re: First time: SGFC question--so fine perlite restricts airflow.. [Re: Sanguin3]
    #20278201 - 07/15/14 07:00 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

How long after pins should I be worried that they haven't matured?


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Re: First time: SGFC question--so fine perlite restricts airflow.. [Re: waffams]
    #20278205 - 07/15/14 07:01 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

when the cap goes black


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Re: First time: SGFC question--so fine perlite restricts airflow.. [Re: Mykes logos]
    #20278254 - 07/15/14 07:17 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Mykes logos said:
Not really. You're misting... which will hit everything. I'm simply saying mist the sides b/c it can be helpful to determine when to mist again, if drafts in the room are affecting it, etc.... Op was already misting in general. Arguing about this doesn't make any sense...




I understand what you are trying to say here, but looking at moisture on the walls of a SGFC is not a good way to tell if your cakes need misting.

When you spray water on the walls, it will evaporate at a different rate than your cakes for multiple reasons including proximity to holes and difference in materials.


But, more importantly, it takes your focus off the thing you actually care about...the moisture of your cakes.

You don't need to avoid misting the walls, but it is completely pointless to intentional do so.


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Re: First time: SGFC question--so fine perlite restricts airflow.. [Re: SpitballJedi]
    #20278314 - 07/15/14 07:33 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

SpitballJedi said:
Quote:

Mykes logos said:
Not really. You're misting... which will hit everything. I'm simply saying mist the sides b/c it can be helpful to determine when to mist again, if drafts in the room are affecting it, etc.... Op was already misting in general. Arguing about this doesn't make any sense...




I understand what you are trying to say here, but looking at moisture on the walls of a SGFC is not a good way to tell if your cakes need misting.

When you spray water on the walls, it will evaporate at a different rate than your cakes for multiple reasons including proximity to holes and difference in materials.


But, more importantly, it takes your focus off the thing you actually care about...the moisture of your cakes.

You don't need to avoid misting the walls, but it is completely pointless to intentional do so.




Yeah, I guess I always thought it was doing something when I used to use a bunch of SGFCs. I misted my tubs from a couple feet away and everything got soaked- but I never intentionally directly misted my cakes or trays, and I had amazing success using a SGFC inside a closet without a light a few times. I have also had great success just setting my SGFCs by a window instead of using lights. I even built a GH right up against a north-facing window and never used lights for months. never noticed any differences :shrug:

I'm not saying that's what everyone should do, I've just tried a lot of different things with a lot of different species and I've had good results with methods that are usually frowned upon...

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Re: First time: SGFC question--so fine perlite restricts airflow.. [Re: cronicr]
    #20278386 - 07/15/14 07:51 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

cronicr said:
when the cap goes black



I see most people who ask that question get answers between 4-8 days, just trying to make sure nothing is stalling.


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Re: First time: SGFC question--so fine perlite restricts airflow.. [Re: waffams]
    #20278425 - 07/15/14 07:59 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

it's fine for them to stall out for awhile just as long as they don't go black, this happens with bulk most of the time, you get up to your first three flushes in your initial pinset where some grow some abort and some just lay there dormant doing nuthing, thoise are your next flush


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Re: First time: SGFC question--so fine perlite restricts airflow.. [Re: cronicr]
    #20278609 - 07/15/14 08:34 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

This is what happened when I used Miracle Grow perlite.  I had very bad FAE in that SGFC as you could imagine and it contamed.





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Re: First time: SGFC question--so fine perlite restricts airflow.. [Re: BLINKfan420]
    #20278709 - 07/15/14 08:55 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Yeah, whatever perlite you use, rinse it well so the holes don't clog. Lesson learned.


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Re: First time: SGFC question--so fine perlite restricts airflow.. [Re: BLINKfan420]
    #20278804 - 07/15/14 09:14 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

BLINKfan420 said:
This is what happened when I used Miracle Grow perlite.  I had very bad FAE in that SGFC as you could imagine and it contamed.









I rinsed it as well as I could. What's a good way to check for this issue without disturbing my cakes? What about fixing it?


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Re: First time: SGFC question--so fine perlite restricts airflow.. [Re: waffams]
    #20278810 - 07/15/14 09:15 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

take your cakes out and check it, some people put a screen at the bottom to stop the clogging


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Re: First time: SGFC question--so fine perlite restricts airflow.. [Re: cronicr]
    #20278829 - 07/15/14 09:17 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

cronicr said:
take your cakes out and check it, some people put a screen at the bottom to stop the clogging





I used a mesh underneath it to prevent finer stuff from falling through, but obviously that won't help. Could I unclog from the bottom? If it's clogged, with a skewer or something?


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Re: First time: SGFC question--so fine perlite restricts airflow.. [Re: waffams]
    #20278840 - 07/15/14 09:20 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

you could but it would be easier to just wet it in the shower dump it in another tote, the good stuff should go that sticky stuff will stick, now take it outside and hose it down and get that shit out of there or your gonna be going to town on it with your skewer weekly


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Re: First time: SGFC question--so fine perlite restricts airflow.. [Re: waffams]
    #20278849 - 07/15/14 09:23 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

If you don't have a strainer, you can do it in your SGFC with a little effort.

You may need to dump some of it in a big pot or bowl and rinse a little at a time. The screen is a double edge sword. While it helps keep the finer particles from falling through, it also helps keep the finer particles from falling through.

A good rinse of the perlite may help until you can get a larger cut. You will make a mess. sorry


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Re: First time: SGFC question--so fine perlite restricts airflow.. [Re: SpitballJedi]
    #20278886 - 07/15/14 09:31 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

thats what i do is blast my shower on it and all the small piecs come out and the powder gets stuck to the bottom


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Re: First time: SGFC question--so fine perlite restricts airflow.. [Re: SpitballJedi]
    #20278934 - 07/15/14 09:44 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Well shit. I made a huge mess rinsing it the first time and I lack adequate filtration to keep it from all going in the shower drain. But I'll rinse it once more before I get coarser stuff. Where should I keep the cakes while I rinse it? Let's assume it'll take me half an hour.


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OfflineAttainment
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Re: First time: SGFC question--so fine perlite restricts airflow.. [Re: waffams]
    #20279047 - 07/15/14 10:06 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

get some mesh sink strainer to put in your drain. or some chore boy to stuff in there. it'll keep the perlite from going down. If you have another tote thats the same size as your fruiting chamber, you can put a coffee mug into each corner, place your fruiting chamber in, and then rinse. this way all the fine perlite goes into the tote underneath. then just take it outside and dump it.

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Re: First time: SGFC question--so fine perlite restricts airflow.. [Re: Attainment]
    #20279150 - 07/15/14 10:36 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

The shower method is good but can be super messy, a good alternative is outside with a hose, which will also provide higher water pressure (your thumb)

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Offlinewaffams
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Re: First time: SGFC question--so fine perlite restricts airflow.. [Re: Attainment]
    #20279188 - 07/15/14 10:51 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

I checked it from the bottom and it really didn't look clogged at all, but I rinsed just in case. Now the perlite is drip dying and my cakes are back in the FC.

And I'd love to have been able to do this outside but I live in a Chicago apartment and that isn't an option for me :frown:

One last dumb question. The cakes are arranged differently than before and light is coming at different angles to the pins that were already there. Is this a problem, changing the location of the light source?

ALSO: pics for update and to see if anyone sees something wrong with my babies! Does this look a little slow to be day 4-6? (some were birthed sooner than others, which is why the larger cakes have no pins yet)

(I love my little fatty dude up in the corner)







These last ones look a little white to me.. am I crazy?



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Edited by waffams (07/15/14 10:53 PM)

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Re: First time: SGFC question--so fine perlite restricts airflow.. [Re: Squandary]
    #20279275 - 07/15/14 11:29 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Squandary said:
The shower method is good but can be super messy, a good alternative is outside with a hose, which will also provide higher water pressure (your thumb)




Or without your thumb if you have an awesome hose attachment:awesomenod:

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