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thelanzii

Registered: 11/13/12
Posts: 5,434
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Re: raw vegan says humans need barely any protein and barely any fat [Re: s240779]
#20269715 - 07/14/14 05:54 AM (9 years, 7 months ago) |
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Stimulants tax one's organs. It is essentially borrowed energy. Adrenal glands especially are effected, which are responsible for hormone production, testosterone for example. Cacao and caffeine fit the definition I posted spot on. Cacao contains the amino acid below. Cacao's stimulant properties are part of its defense mechanism. This is a common trait of many seeds. "Phenylalanine is another essential amino acid found in cocoa. Phenylalanine is amino acids that stimulates several chemicals in the brain and alter several physiological reactions that have adverse effects on the body. Phenylalanine is an amino acid that can react with some drugs and cause adverse effects- anti-depressant drugs must not be taken when you consume chocolate containing huge amounts of amino acids, phenylalanine increases the body’s response to stress, anxiety and depression." Heightened emotions due to ingestion.
Caffeine affects dopamine. "Dopamine has a part in many important functions in the brain, playing a role in cognition, punishment, motivation, attention, mood, sleep, voluntary movement, learning and working memory." Again this fits the definition I posted about neurotoxins. http://psychology.about.com/od/dindex/g/dopamine.htm http://www.xbrain.co.uk/cocoa-amino-acids-in-cocoa
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psi
TOAST N' JAM


Registered: 09/05/99
Posts: 31,478
Loc: 613
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Re: raw vegan says humans need barely any protein and barely any fat [Re: thelanzii] 1
#20270004 - 07/14/14 07:51 AM (9 years, 7 months ago) |
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What is the source of that definition and what makes you consider it so authoritative?
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EdibleStereos
Healthy Body, Sick Mind


Registered: 01/02/13
Posts: 4,899
Loc: South Africa
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Re: raw vegan says humans need barely any protein and barely any fat [Re: thelanzii] 1
#20270022 - 07/14/14 08:01 AM (9 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Nemmies said: Stimulants tax one's organs. It is essentially borrowed energy. Adrenal glands especially are effected, which are responsible for hormone production, testosterone for example. Cacao and caffeine fit the definition I posted spot on. Cacao contains the amino acid below. Cacao's stimulant properties are part of its defense mechanism. This is a common trait of many seeds. "Phenylalanine is another essential amino acid found in cocoa. Phenylalanine is amino acids that stimulates several chemicals in the brain and alter several physiological reactions that have adverse effects on the body. Phenylalanine is an amino acid that can react with some drugs and cause adverse effects- anti-depressant drugs must not be taken when you consume chocolate containing huge amounts of amino acids, phenylalanine increases the body’s response to stress, anxiety and depression." Heightened emotions due to ingestion.
Caffeine affects dopamine. "Dopamine has a part in many important functions in the brain, playing a role in cognition, punishment, motivation, attention, mood, sleep, voluntary movement, learning and working memory." Again this fits the definition I posted about neurotoxins. http://psychology.about.com/od/dindex/g/dopamine.htm http://www.xbrain.co.uk/cocoa-amino-acids-in-cocoa
Phenylalanine is a building block starting point for many neurotransmitters. Which is why it is called an "essential amino acid" even in your own quote.
So why do you think it is negative?
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s240779

Registered: 12/07/10
Posts: 12,880
Last seen: 3 months, 11 days
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Re: raw vegan says humans need barely any protein and barely any fat [Re: thelanzii]
#20270264 - 07/14/14 09:32 AM (9 years, 7 months ago) |
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You're confusing phenylalanine with phenylethylamine, which shows that you're not really doing your research, which is hilarious. Furthermore, the phenylethylamine/cacao thing is a myth.
-Cacao contains barely any phenylethyalmine...only a trace amount -Phenylethylamine only has an effect if you take an MAO-B inhibitor.
You can find sources for the above info here:
Info from the 1998 British Nutrition Conference
Chocolate, love and myth-information (This article provides insight into the origin of this myth.)
Both those articles point out that even if cacao did contain PEA in appreciable amounts, you would need an MAOI to make it do something. As additional evidence for this claim, PIHKAL by Alexander Shulgin includes short data on self-experimentation with PEA, as PEA is the basis of all the phenethylamines (Phenethyalmines I have Known and Loved):
QUALITATIVE COMMENTS: (with 200, 400, 800 and 1600 mg) “No effects.”
(with 500 mg) “No effects.”
(with 800 and 1600 mg) “No effects.”
(with 25 and 50 mg i.v.) “No effects.”
And for the record, phenylalanine is just an essential amino acid, as stated, and won't have any kind of stimulant effect on you. I bought D,L-phenylalaine (DLPA) powder after seeing it represented as a mood booster in two different books (you can see those entries here and here). It never had any effect. The alleged mechanism of action is that it converts to the phenylethylamine mentioned at the start of my post. Well, I was actually eventually prescribed the MAOI, selegiline, and I still had the DLPA powder, so I tried it with the selegiline. No effect, although I do remember one day where I got a stimulant effect, but it was one-dimensional, like, primarily a body effect, not a mind stimulation.
This is some interesting information in regard to the potential activity of phenylalanine:
People swear these drugstore amino acids are effective. Don't waste your money. "The rate-limiting enzymatic step in the synthesis of any of the catecholamines is catalyzed by tyrosine hydroxylase. Dietary changes in tyrosine levels, therefore, do not influence the synthesis of catecholamines." Synopsis of Psychiatry, Kaplan and Saddock 2007, page 100.
Even if you get past the rate limiting step by taking levodopa, you still need to lasso the aromatic amino acid decarboxylase effectively; so unless you raid the cabinets of a Parkinson's patient (not as easy as it sounds), you're better off acquiring some buproprion (once your DLPA placebo honeymoon is over.)
As for enkephilase inhibition, I'm all but convinced that you'll get no more of a high that way, even with a novel, exotic inhibitor:
Analgesic doses of the enkephalin degrading enzyme inhibitor RB 120 do not have discriminative stimulus properties. European journal of pharmacology 2000, vol. 401, no2, pp. 197-204 (1 p.1/4)
The systemically active mixed inhibitor of enkephalin metabolism, N-((S)-2-benzyl-3[(S) 2-amino-4-methylthio)butyldithio-]-1-oxopropyl)-L-alanine benzylester (RB 120), alone or in combination with 4-{[2-[[3-(1 H-indol-3-yl))-2-methyl-1-oxo-2-[[(tricyclo-[3.3.1.1.]dec-2-yloxy) carbonyl]amino}propyl]amino]-1-phenylethyl]amino}-4-oxo-[R-(R*,R*)]-butanoate N-methyl-D-glucamine (CI 988; CCK1 receptor antagonist) was investigated for discriminative and morphine generalisation effects using an operant drug discrimination paradigm in rats. Animals dosed with RB 120 (10 mg/kg) failed to develop a discriminative response. Combined CI 988 (0.3 mg/kg) and RB 120 (10 mg/kg) also failed to elicit a discriminative response. Morphine-trained animals (3.0 mg/kg) did not generalise to RB 120 (10 and 20 mg/kg). Similarly, subsequent retraining of the same animals with 1.5 mg/kg of morphine did not elicit generalisation to RB 120 (10 or 20 mg/kg). Combined RB 120 (10 or 20 mg/kg) and Cl 988 (0.3 or 3.0 mg/kg) treatment produced no notable drug lever selection in rats able to discriminate morphine (1.5 mg/kg) from saline. These results suggest that RB 120 may have low abuse potential at analgesic doses.
I want a morphine lever.
19-04-2009 seep http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/431036-DL-Phenylalanine-How-does-it-work?p=7057174&viewfull=1#post7057174
And if you go to that thread, you'll see subsequent comments where I asked for clarification on seep's post.
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JesusIsLord
Jesus freak


Registered: 08/10/12
Posts: 8,061
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
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Re: raw vegan says humans need barely any protein and barely any fat [Re: s240779] 3
#20271057 - 07/14/14 12:36 PM (9 years, 7 months ago) |
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Da2ra said:
Quote:
Nemmies said: I saw vid the other day where wolfe made a big ole stimulant concoction. Reishi, cacao, turmeric, yerba mate, maca powder, mucuna pruriens, cayenne pepper... and many more. That shake right there is a recipe for a mood disorder. Nuerotoxin's and highly stimulating powder "superfoods" are hardly a sustainable method of eating.
Where's your proof that any of those things are neurotoxins. Also, I only see one stimulant there: cacao.
And I really don't see why someone would have a problem with exotic foods. Also, he doesn't own Longevity Warehouse (a guy named Len Foley does); his products are just sold by them (none of which include animal products). So he doesn't sell as many things as you think.
Quote:
Nemmies said: He has no fitness though.
#1, what's your point? ...Not everyone has fitness. ...Judging someone on whether or not they're athletic.
#2, how do you know? So presumptuous.
People who follow the diet in the first post. Source: Anorexic, Old-Looking Fruitarians with Wrinkles






hahahaha
--------------------
And I will bring you out from the people, and will gather you out of the countries wherein ye are scattered, with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out.
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thelanzii

Registered: 11/13/12
Posts: 5,434
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Re: raw vegan says humans need barely any protein and barely any fat [Re: psi]
#20271752 - 07/14/14 03:37 PM (9 years, 7 months ago) |
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psi said: What is the source of that definition and what makes you consider it so authoritative?
That definition is straight out of my alcohol and drug class. It is my understanding that migraines and headaches occur from too much toxins in the bloodstream. Many many people will experience headaches from eating chocolate, demonstrating its nuerotoxin characteristic. Cacao is a stimulant. Cacao is a chemical stress to the brain changing the way dopamine is released in the nerve cells.
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thelanzii

Registered: 11/13/12
Posts: 5,434
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Re: raw vegan says humans need barely any protein and barely any fat [Re: EdibleStereos]
#20271762 - 07/14/14 03:39 PM (9 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
EdibleStereos said:
Quote:
Nemmies said: Stimulants tax one's organs. It is essentially borrowed energy. Adrenal glands especially are effected, which are responsible for hormone production, testosterone for example. Cacao and caffeine fit the definition I posted spot on. Cacao contains the amino acid below. Cacao's stimulant properties are part of its defense mechanism. This is a common trait of many seeds. "Phenylalanine is another essential amino acid found in cocoa. Phenylalanine is amino acids that stimulates several chemicals in the brain and alter several physiological reactions that have adverse effects on the body. Phenylalanine is an amino acid that can react with some drugs and cause adverse effects- anti-depressant drugs must not be taken when you consume chocolate containing huge amounts of amino acids, phenylalanine increases the body’s response to stress, anxiety and depression." Heightened emotions due to ingestion.
Caffeine affects dopamine. "Dopamine has a part in many important functions in the brain, playing a role in cognition, punishment, motivation, attention, mood, sleep, voluntary movement, learning and working memory." Again this fits the definition I posted about neurotoxins. http://psychology.about.com/od/dindex/g/dopamine.htm http://www.xbrain.co.uk/cocoa-amino-acids-in-cocoa
Phenylalanine is a building block starting point for many neurotransmitters. Which is why it is called an "essential amino acid" even in your own quote.
So why do you think it is negative?
Too much of it is negative. I live with a hormonal female who likes to ingest crazy amounts of chocolate. She freaks the fuck out.
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thelanzii

Registered: 11/13/12
Posts: 5,434
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Re: raw vegan says humans need barely any protein and barely any fat [Re: s240779]
#20271820 - 07/14/14 03:50 PM (9 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Da2ra said: You're confusing phenylalanine with phenylethylamine, which shows that you're not really doing your research, which is hilarious. Furthermore, the phenylethylamine/cacao thing is a myth.
-Cacao contains barely any phenylethyalmine...only a trace amount -Phenylethylamine only has an effect if you take an MAO-B inhibitor.
You can find sources for the above info here:
Info from the 1998 British Nutrition Conference
Chocolate, love and myth-information (This article provides insight into the origin of this myth.)
Both those articles point out that even if cacao did contain PEA in appreciable amounts, you would need an MAOI to make it do something. As additional evidence for this claim, PIHKAL by Alexander Shulgin includes short data on self-experimentation with PEA, as PEA is the basis of all the phenethylamines (Phenethyalmines I have Known and Loved):
QUALITATIVE COMMENTS: (with 200, 400, 800 and 1600 mg) “No effects.”
(with 500 mg) “No effects.”
(with 800 and 1600 mg) “No effects.”
(with 25 and 50 mg i.v.) “No effects.”
And for the record, phenylalanine is just an essential amino acid, as stated, and won't have any kind of stimulant effect on you. I bought D,L-phenylalaine (DLPA) powder after seeing it represented as a mood booster in two different books (you can see those entries here and here). It never had any effect. The alleged mechanism of action is that it converts to the phenylethylamine mentioned at the start of my post. Well, I was actually eventually prescribed the MAOI, selegiline, and I still had the DLPA powder, so I tried it with the selegiline. No effect, although I do remember one day where I got a stimulant effect, but it was one-dimensional, like, primarily a body effect, not a mind stimulation.
This is some interesting information in regard to the potential activity of phenylalanine:
People swear these drugstore amino acids are effective. Don't waste your money. "The rate-limiting enzymatic step in the synthesis of any of the catecholamines is catalyzed by tyrosine hydroxylase. Dietary changes in tyrosine levels, therefore, do not influence the synthesis of catecholamines." Synopsis of Psychiatry, Kaplan and Saddock 2007, page 100.
Even if you get past the rate limiting step by taking levodopa, you still need to lasso the aromatic amino acid decarboxylase effectively; so unless you raid the cabinets of a Parkinson's patient (not as easy as it sounds), you're better off acquiring some buproprion (once your DLPA placebo honeymoon is over.)
As for enkephilase inhibition, I'm all but convinced that you'll get no more of a high that way, even with a novel, exotic inhibitor:
Analgesic doses of the enkephalin degrading enzyme inhibitor RB 120 do not have discriminative stimulus properties. European journal of pharmacology 2000, vol. 401, no2, pp. 197-204 (1 p.1/4)
The systemically active mixed inhibitor of enkephalin metabolism, N-((S)-2-benzyl-3[(S) 2-amino-4-methylthio)butyldithio-]-1-oxopropyl)-L-alanine benzylester (RB 120), alone or in combination with 4-{[2-[[3-(1 H-indol-3-yl))-2-methyl-1-oxo-2-[[(tricyclo-[3.3.1.1.]dec-2-yloxy) carbonyl]amino}propyl]amino]-1-phenylethyl]amino}-4-oxo-[R-(R*,R*)]-butanoate N-methyl-D-glucamine (CI 988; CCK1 receptor antagonist) was investigated for discriminative and morphine generalisation effects using an operant drug discrimination paradigm in rats. Animals dosed with RB 120 (10 mg/kg) failed to develop a discriminative response. Combined CI 988 (0.3 mg/kg) and RB 120 (10 mg/kg) also failed to elicit a discriminative response. Morphine-trained animals (3.0 mg/kg) did not generalise to RB 120 (10 and 20 mg/kg). Similarly, subsequent retraining of the same animals with 1.5 mg/kg of morphine did not elicit generalisation to RB 120 (10 or 20 mg/kg). Combined RB 120 (10 or 20 mg/kg) and Cl 988 (0.3 or 3.0 mg/kg) treatment produced no notable drug lever selection in rats able to discriminate morphine (1.5 mg/kg) from saline. These results suggest that RB 120 may have low abuse potential at analgesic doses.
I want a morphine lever.
19-04-2009 seep http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/431036-DL-Phenylalanine-How-does-it-work?p=7057174&viewfull=1#post7057174
And if you go to that thread, you'll see subsequent comments where I asked for clarification on seep's post.
Im not confusing them though. Stimulants are stimulants. If you want to tax your body with a chemical stress that is on you. I used that amino acid to show how it effects emotions. Stimulants are stimulants I do not care if it is coke or cacao they still act similarly on the body.
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s240779

Registered: 12/07/10
Posts: 12,880
Last seen: 3 months, 11 days
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Re: raw vegan says humans need barely any protein and barely any fat [Re: thelanzii]
#20271951 - 07/14/14 04:13 PM (9 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Nemmies said: Many many people will experience headaches from eating chocolate, demonstrating its nuerotoxin characteristic. Cacao is a stimulant.
"Many many people"? How do you know? Do you have the results of a survey or something? As I said before, I used cacao extensively for a period of time and not once did I ever get a headache from it. Your claim is an insult to anyone who's a fan of cacao, as it implies that these people are walking around with headaches all the time.

Quote:
Nemmies said: Cacao is a chemical stress to the brain changing the way dopamine is released in the nerve cells.
Can you substantiate that?
Quote:
Nemmies said: Im not confusing them though.
Yes you are. Cacao is rumored to be a good source for phenylethylamine, per an erroneous quote by Michael R. Liebowitz, M.D. in the seventies or eighties: "In one interview I remarked that chocolate was loaded with PEA...This became the focus of an article in The New York Times, which was then taken up by the wire services, then by magazine free-lancers, and evolved into the chocolate theory of love." (Michael R. Liebowitz, M.D. The Chemistry of Love, 1984, pages 99-100)
Quote:
Nemmies said: I used that amino acid to show how it effects emotions.
To show how what affects emotions?
Neither phenylethyalmine or phenylalanine have anything to do with cacao. Cacao is not a source for either, as evidenced in my previous post. And phenylalanine is simply one of the things that makes up protein. As indicated in my previous post, the only way to get a possible emotional effect from it is by taking one or two synthetic drugs along with isolated phenylalanine!
Quote:
Nemmies said: Stimulants are stimulants. If you want to tax your body with a chemical stress that is on you.
This is a presumptuous mind set. Have you interviewed different people who've tried different stimulants?
People walk around saying marijuana is a "chemical stress" without having any bit of an understanding of how marijuana works or how it affects people. Your comments about cacao are no different.
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