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InvisibleprettyMushy
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Spawn to Sub ratio questions
    #20264331 - 07/12/14 07:59 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

if you increase the ratio of spawn to sub would it increase yields?

if i do 6lb of spawn to 10lb sub i know it will colonize quicker but is that the only benefit?


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InvisibleMr. Alien
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Re: Spawn to Sub ratio questions [Re: prettyMushy]
    #20264343 - 07/12/14 08:02 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

I heard RR said that low spawn ratios like 1:4 would give you higher yields or higher flushes don't remember.

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InvisibleTheEaglesGift
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Re: Spawn to Sub ratio questions [Re: prettyMushy]
    #20264450 - 07/12/14 08:30 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

prettyMushy said:
if you increase the ratio of spawn to sub would it increase yields?

if i do 6lb of spawn to 10lb sub i know it will colonize quicker but is that the only benefit?




Spawn doesn't hold as much water. That's the only draw back I can think of.

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Offlinetripdawg420
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Re: Spawn to Sub ratio questions [Re: TheEaglesGift]
    #20264680 - 07/12/14 09:39 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

yes it will some times i use 10 qts of spawn per tub :thumbup:


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InvisibleGhatti
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Re: Spawn to Sub ratio questions [Re: tripdawg420]
    #20264782 - 07/12/14 10:13 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Doubtful. Test it with an isolate.

Mushrooms grow by cell expansion and for this they need a boat load of water. Good nutrients are essential for the mycelium to build up a store of energy but after that a high spawn ratio only detracts from your moisture content.

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OnlinecronicrMFacebook
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Re: Spawn to Sub ratio questions [Re: Ghatti]
    #20264817 - 07/12/14 10:24 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Ghatti said:
Doubtful. Test it with an isolate.

Mushrooms grow by cell expansion and for this they need a boat load of water. Good nutrients are essential for the mycelium to build up a store of energy but after that a high spawn ratio only detracts from your moisture content.



itès cell enlargement not expansion but they still go through some cell division


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InvisibleGhatti
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Re: Spawn to Sub ratio questions [Re: cronicr]
    #20265792 - 07/13/14 06:55 AM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Same diff. Potato tomato. I was under the impression once the fruit begins to form it has all the cells it will have, they just expand/enlarge.

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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Spawn to Sub ratio questions [Re: Ghatti]
    #20266017 - 07/13/14 08:57 AM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Don't repeat disinformation just because you read it somewhere. Mushrooms grow by cell division.  Obviously there's some engorgement with water too, but primordia do not have all the cells a mature mushroom will have.  Whoever first pulled that bullshit out of his ass should be tarred and feathered because for some unknown reason, people keep repeating it. :shrug:

Higher spawn ratios only help speed colonization minimally. Once the mycelium gets going, it will generally double in size every day.  This means that after a week or so, the difference in colonization between a high and low spawn rate isn't much, assuming of course proper pasteurization and no contamination.

Growers should experiment with high and low spawn rates for each strain they grow.  Some prefer a more nutritious substrate than others, so these can benefit from a higher spawn rate.  Strains which prefer a lower nutrient level will often grow mutants and blobs instead of mushrooms on the first flush as the mycelium consumes the excess grains.
RR


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InvisibleGhatti
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Re: Spawn to Sub ratio questions [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #20266075 - 07/13/14 09:15 AM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Tell us how you really feel RR.  Jeez I said test it with an isolate lol.

I had that information taught to me through text just as you informed me it isn't true the same way.
Unless we stay up on every independent paper all we have to go by are the most publicized publications even if they do have outdated and misinformation in them.

It's not like the biology of our fungus friends is discussed at great lengths here. Mostly "how do my cakes look".


With that being said, can we get an intermediate board? Leave advanced mycology for scientific discussion, experimental, and more advanced topics.

Have a noob "how do my cakes look, how do I build a sgfc, etc?"

And have a place for seasoned cultivators who know the general principals?

Just saying, that'd be swell and cut down on some of the confusion noobs face. You couldn't really base access on post count but there should be some sort of criteria.

Edited by Ghatti (07/13/14 09:20 AM)

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InvisibleprettyMushy
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Re: Spawn to Sub ratio questions [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #20266240 - 07/13/14 10:15 AM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
Don't repeat disinformation just because you read it somewhere. Mushrooms grow by cell division.  Obviously there's some engorgement with water too, but primordia do not have all the cells a mature mushroom will have.  Whoever first pulled that bullshit out of his ass should be tarred and feathered because for some unknown reason, people keep repeating it. :shrug:






:rofl2::psychsplit:


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InvisibleSpitballJedi
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Re: Spawn to Sub ratio questions [Re: Ghatti]
    #20266261 - 07/13/14 10:22 AM (10 years, 6 months ago)

RR's explanation seems corroborated by my experience.

My PC holds (7) quarts filled about 2/3 to 3/4 with rye or little more than half with WBS. Spawned to a brick of coir(650g) and 2 quarts of vermiculite, it gives me about 8-12 day colonization time. Some cultures are a little faster and some are a little slower.

I don't really mess with the recipe because it works well enough for me for my small scale hobby.

However, I do have a culture that doesn't perform very well and I think I will try altering the spawn ration to see what happens.


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InvisibleTheEaglesGift
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Re: Spawn to Sub ratio questions [Re: SpitballJedi]
    #20267281 - 07/13/14 03:36 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Strains which prefer a lower nutrient level will often grow mutants and blobs instead of mushrooms on the first flush as the mycelium consumes the excess grains.




Could this be attributed to Penis Envy's common first flush mutants?

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Re: Spawn to Sub ratio questions [Re: TheEaglesGift]
    #20267660 - 07/13/14 05:12 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

yes, it is directly related to this and i believe ksss to fall in the same boat


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InvisibleTheEaglesGift
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Re: Spawn to Sub ratio questions [Re: cronicr]
    #20267733 - 07/13/14 05:32 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

So one could avoid the mutants with a lower spawn ratio?

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Re: Spawn to Sub ratio questions [Re: TheEaglesGift]
    #20267737 - 07/13/14 05:33 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

not really needed togothat far, you can still use the same ratio's but it will benifit from a little consolidation tolet teh myc digest some before fruiting, this sems to be why casing layers help the blob thing out as it delays fruiting


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Re: Spawn to Sub ratio questions [Re: cronicr]
    #20267740 - 07/13/14 05:35 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

there are species like shitake which will also blob out with too much spawn or over suplimented subs


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InvisibleTheEaglesGift
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Re: Spawn to Sub ratio questions [Re: cronicr]
    #20267939 - 07/13/14 06:21 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

How long of a consolidation period do you suggest for PE? I have some wbs colonizing with mutlispore PE right now and I'm actually looking forward to the crapshoot of it. I enjoy ms because of the mystery.

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Re: Spawn to Sub ratio questions [Re: TheEaglesGift]
    #20267969 - 07/13/14 06:28 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

w/o casing just 3 or 4 days , it wil continue to consolidate while in fruiting mode too so no need to go longer then that


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InvisibleTheEaglesGift
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Re: Spawn to Sub ratio questions [Re: cronicr]
    #20268003 - 07/13/14 06:36 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

cronicr said:
w/o casing just 3 or 4 days , it wil continue to consolidate while in fruiting mode too so no need to go longer then that




That's what I figured, croncr.

I used to do 3 week long consolidation periods for my tubs. It used to be thought, and maybe some still think, that longer consolidation periods gave better first flushes and more potent fruits. The only thing I find that 3 week long consolidation period gave was a lengthy, stale and overly humid environment for trichoderma to grow in.

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Re: Spawn to Sub ratio questions [Re: TheEaglesGift]
    #20268010 - 07/13/14 06:38 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

yeah things like shitake canand need those kinda consolidtion times but cubes don't:thumbup:


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