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lucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness
Registered: 03/29/03
Posts: 6,319
Loc: up on the bidet
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Meta Thinking Woes, Too Much Awareness...
#2025444 - 10/20/03 12:12 PM (20 years, 5 months ago) |
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Yup, I thought Awareness was a good thing... so I practiced being aware of everything, every little move, breath, thought etc...true Zen style... Now I've discovered that I can barely Read or Write anymore and have extreeme difficulty concentrating on tasks (like programming software) cause I'm always aware of what I'm doing It's sheer madness... there are things we arn't supposed to be aware of...like the billions of bacteria we breath in with every breath... I can barely make sense of anything anymore cause the Awareness interferes with the process... I think being unaware and automated is key to performing most tasks efficiently... so much for watching the thinker...
-------------------- "no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 1 month, 19 days
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Re: Meta Thinking Woes, Too Much Awareness... [Re: lucid]
#2025474 - 10/20/03 12:23 PM (20 years, 5 months ago) |
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> so I practiced being aware of everything, every little move, breath, thought etc...true Zen style...
... true Zen style? Mindful does not equate to aware of everything.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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lucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness
Registered: 03/29/03
Posts: 6,319
Loc: up on the bidet
Last seen: 10 years, 5 months
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Re: Meta Thinking Woes, Too Much Awareness... [Re: Seuss]
#2025485 - 10/20/03 12:25 PM (20 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Seuss said: > so I practiced being aware of everything, every little move, breath, thought etc...true Zen style...
... true Zen style? Mindful does not equate to aware of everything.
Expatiate please My understanding is that Mindful means to be Aware... Of course, word plays and nuances in meanings always abound, but in a nutshell, that's my understanding...
-------------------- "no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."
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MAIA
World-BridgerKartikeya (DftS)
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Loc: Erra - 20 Tauri - M45 Sta...
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Re: Meta Thinking Woes, Too Much Awareness... [Re: lucid]
#2025489 - 10/20/03 12:26 PM (20 years, 5 months ago) |
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That's lack of concentration, or at least you can't focus your concentration doing tasks you used to do. Don't take me wrong but i would pay a visit to the doctor and ask him a vitamin supplement prescription, iron and phosphor are good ones.
MAIA
-------------------- Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy. Voltaire
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lucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness
Registered: 03/29/03
Posts: 6,319
Loc: up on the bidet
Last seen: 10 years, 5 months
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Re: Meta Thinking Woes, Too Much Awareness... [Re: MAIA]
#2025554 - 10/20/03 12:42 PM (20 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
MAIA said: That's lack of concentration, or at least you can't focus your concentration doing tasks you used to do. Don't take me wrong but i would pay a visit to the doctor and ask him a vitamin supplement prescription, iron and phosphor are good ones.
MAIA
I'm seeing a doc and a Therapist on a regular basis. Take a Multi Vitamin, iron, Omega 3 oils, Vit E, C etc etc daily n eat a healthy diet... Concentration is paradoxical, the more u try to concentrate u can't... it involves becomming part of the activity and being unaware. So, awareness seems to hinder concentration...
-------------------- "no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 1 month, 19 days
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Re: Meta Thinking Woes, Too Much Awareness... [Re: lucid]
#2025587 - 10/20/03 12:49 PM (20 years, 5 months ago) |
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> Expatiate please
Hmmm... I donno that I can...
Let me use an example. Lets say that I am working in the kitchen helping prepare the evening meal by cutting up a giant sack of onions into little onion bits.
I can be super aware of everything. I can notice the smell of the onions, the sound the knife makes cutting the onions, the size of the onion bits, the edge of the knife getting dull as it cuts, the small slices out of the cutting board every time the knife comes down, the smells of other food cooking, the...
or....
I can cut onions.
Being mindful doesn't mean to be aware of everything that is happening around you, but rather to be aware of your mind when it wonders from the simplicity of the task at hand.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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seraphim
pugilist andstamp licker
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Re: Meta Thinking Woes, Too Much Awareness... [Re: Seuss]
#2025598 - 10/20/03 12:54 PM (20 years, 5 months ago) |
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Yes, that is much better. Well put, Seuss.
-------------------- trying to lose the monkey mind a little bit
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lucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness
Registered: 03/29/03
Posts: 6,319
Loc: up on the bidet
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Re: Meta Thinking Woes, Too Much Awareness... [Re: Seuss]
#2025683 - 10/20/03 01:16 PM (20 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Seuss said: > Expatiate please
Hmmm... I donno that I can...
Let me use an example. Lets say that I am working in the kitchen helping prepare the evening meal by cutting up a giant sack of onions into little onion bits.
I can be super aware of everything. I can notice the smell of the onions, the sound the knife makes cutting the onions, the size of the onion bits, the edge of the knife getting dull as it cuts, the small slices out of the cutting board every time the knife comes down, the smells of other food cooking, the...
or....
I can cut onions.
Being mindful doesn't mean to be aware of everything that is happening around you, but rather to be aware of your mind when it wonders from the simplicity of the task at hand.
Being mindful means to be aware of your mind period, whether it wanders or not... In order to make the determination that the mind is wandering from a task, the mind must be aware of whether it's on the task or not - so it must be aware in both cases... And the mind will wander... Mindful also means to be aware of your reactions, so that "u can learn 'how you create your suffering'"... Watching the Thinker is a common meditative practice and is commonly called "being mindful"/insight meditation/vipassena etc...
-------------------- "no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 1 month, 19 days
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Re: Meta Thinking Woes, Too Much Awareness... [Re: lucid]
#2025728 - 10/20/03 01:26 PM (20 years, 5 months ago) |
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Ah, but you put being aware and "Zen Style" together, so my answer was directed towards a Zen student rather than addressing common meditative practices... I cannot speak towards common practices, only towards Zen style meditation and mindfulness, which is what I was taught.
Subtle differences in cause can create drastic differences in effect.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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lucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness
Registered: 03/29/03
Posts: 6,319
Loc: up on the bidet
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Re: Meta Thinking Woes, Too Much Awareness... [Re: Seuss]
#2025778 - 10/20/03 01:42 PM (20 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Seuss said: Ah, but you put being aware and "Zen Style" together, so my answer was directed towards a Zen student rather than addressing common meditative practices... I cannot speak towards common practices, only towards Zen style meditation and mindfulness, which is what I was taught. Subtle differences in cause can create drastic differences in effect.
Maybe I'm doing something wrong, which is why I feel so awful I've been practicing Vipassena style meditation as described/advocated by Eckhart Tolle (popularized version), Jon Kabat-Zinn (author of "whereever u go there u are", "full catastrophe living"), Krishnamurti (an advocate of no-mind/quiet mind, observing the thinker etc), Ram Dass etc. I've read a bit on Zen as well (Allen Watts), and read articles on the similarity of Zen and Vipassena (e.g. at www.tricycle.com). My understanding has always been that the presence of the Observer observing everything non-judgementally and unattached was the key to meditation and Liberation from the Self. When u say "or I can just cut onions" what exactly does that mean ? I mean it's fine in the context of onions where the task is extreemly simple, but how does that benefit say a Depressed or Anxious or otherwise Nurotic person ? I mean it's analogous to saying "well just be" or "well just be happy" - it's not saying very much... I'd love to understand more, cause I think I might be misunderstanding...
-------------------- "no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."
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Anonymous
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Re: Meta Thinking Woes, Too Much Awareness... [Re: lucid]
#2025806 - 10/20/03 01:48 PM (20 years, 5 months ago) |
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Nah man, you're just in too deep
We aren't all capable of this shit you know
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sirreal
devoid
Registered: 01/11/03
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Re: Meta Thinking Woes, Too Much Awareness... [Re: lucid]
#2025827 - 10/20/03 01:54 PM (20 years, 5 months ago) |
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It's like the difference in the way something smells and the way it tastes! You cannot truly taste it by smelling it.
-------------------- I may not always tell the truth, but atleast I'm honest ----------- I see what everyone is saying. It is so hard to form an opinion when you see both sides so clearly!
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lucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness
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Re: Meta Thinking Woes, Too Much Awareness... [Re: sirreal]
#2025849 - 10/20/03 01:58 PM (20 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
sirreal said: It's like the difference in the way something smells and the way it tastes! You cannot truly taste it by smelling it.
I don't get what the analogy referes to difference between what ?
-------------------- "no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
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Re: Meta Thinking Woes, Too Much Awareness... [Re: lucid]
#2025965 - 10/20/03 02:55 PM (20 years, 5 months ago) |
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> You cannot truly taste it by smelling it.
Hold your nose and taste both an apple and an onion. Which is which?
> Maybe I'm doing something wrong, which is why I feel so awful
Doubtful, but I am not qualified to make such an assessment.
> but how does that benefit say a Depressed or Anxious or otherwise Nurotic person
Again, I am not qualified to answer your question. I can speak from personal experience, but that may or may not apply to your situation. There is a good chance than my ignorance would make your problem worse rather than better.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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