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Offlinecr0sis
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Re: How I Do WBS [Re: SpitballJedi] * 1
    #20256891 - 07/11/14 07:44 AM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Brilliant info, thanks very much!

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Offlinetripdawg420
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Re: How I Do WBS [Re: cr0sis]
    #20256972 - 07/11/14 08:21 AM (10 years, 6 months ago)

i remove mine :shrug: 

when i first started every one was like omg take all that shit oput so i kinda got stuck they pour out first when you rinse :thumbup:


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OfflineEdmunter
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Re: How I Do WBS [Re: SpitballJedi]
    #20257242 - 07/11/14 09:46 AM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

SpitballJedi said:
Quote:

TheEaglesGift said:
Leave the sunflowers in!




Make me. I haven't seen any use for them. I remove them.


Quote:

Edmunter said:
...and you still get maximum steam off which leaves the grains dry on the outside. 

By the way OP, this is why we do this stage.




I'm very aware of steam evaporation and why it's done; this isn't my first day at the job. It isn't necessary with WBS. Maybe it is if the sunflower seeds are left in, but I wouldn't know.

My method works great and others will agree. This IS the way I do WBS.




I didn't mean you op I meant GhettoShroom sorry.  You crack on bro, no worries

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InvisibleSpitballJedi
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Re: How I Do WBS [Re: tripdawg420]
    #20257385 - 07/11/14 10:32 AM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Yeah, that's pretty much it TD. It seems easier to remove them than leave them in


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InvisibleSpitballJedi
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Re: How I Do WBS [Re: Edmunter]
    #20257386 - 07/11/14 10:32 AM (10 years, 6 months ago)

It's all good bro


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Invisibleblindingleaf
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Re: How I Do WBS [Re: SpitballJedi]
    #20257414 - 07/11/14 10:39 AM (10 years, 6 months ago)

lignin is provided by the coir most people spawn to anyway...


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OfflineKizzle
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Re: How I Do WBS [Re: SpitballJedi]
    #20257547 - 07/11/14 11:13 AM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

SpitballJedi said:
Boiling/simmering does not get rid of endospores, that's what pressure cooking is for. There are many people who do the simmer/boil for their reasons. I don't not subscribe to the cooking



It does help reduce them though if there's also say a 12 hour delay between the boil and PCing. It's not important if you're PCing for 90 minutes but for people using shorter times like 60 minutes endospore count can make all the difference.


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Invisible36fuckin5
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Re: How I Do WBS [Re: Kizzle]
    #20257916 - 07/11/14 12:44 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Simmering isn't something that should be skipped. It finishes up your hydration. It's the difference between 4 oz per flush or 6.

The only reason you don't see a difference is because your grains aren't dry when you load them, so that bit of water absorbs while you PC. I bet you end up with loads of burst grains in the jar when you're done though. 15 minutes isn't nearly long enough to dry your grain. I drain mine for a good 5-10 minutes then lay it on a towel while hot and it still takes an hour.


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i recommend common sense and figuring it out.

These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.

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InvisibleTheEaglesGift
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Re: How I Do WBS [Re: 36fuckin5]
    #20258152 - 07/11/14 02:04 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

I start my 24 hour soak with boiling water, and then 12 hours in change it out for boiling water again. Do you think this is enough to hydrate my grains adequately? They don't seem plump and cooked, but never are burst. My grain colonizes with no complaints regardless. I respect your opinions on it. 

I never imagined that grain hydration would effect yield as much as you're suggesting it does, at least not in my setting of a monotub that contains 4.5 quarts of water.

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InvisibleSpitballJedi
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Re: How I Do WBS [Re: 36fuckin5] * 1
    #20258224 - 07/11/14 02:24 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

36fuckin5 said:
Simmering isn't something that should be skipped. It finishes up your hydration. It's the difference between 4 oz per flush or 6.

The only reason you don't see a difference is because your grains aren't dry when you load them, so that bit of water absorbs while you PC. I bet you end up with loads of burst grains in the jar when you're done though. 15 minutes isn't nearly long enough to dry your grain. I drain mine for a good 5-10 minutes then lay it on a towel while hot and it still takes an hour.





Skipping cooking with WBS is perfectly fine and more people than you realize likely do it this way. Simmering WBS is completely pointless. I get way more burst grain when I simmer. Fuck simmering WBS.

Cooking vs not cooking makes no difference in weight per flush. A perfectly hydrated grain is a perfectly hydrated grain regardless of how it was accomplished.

Remember, we are talking WBS, not rye.


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Invisible36fuckin5
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Re: How I Do WBS [Re: SpitballJedi]
    #20258235 - 07/11/14 02:28 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

I've done the tests myself. Simmering my grain always gets me more fruits.

If you're getting a lot of burst grains, you're probably boiling and not actually simmering. Most people don't know how to hold a proper simmer compared to a low boil. 5 bubbles per minute or so is all you want.

I'm not saying this way won't work, I'm just saying it's not 100% optimal. Yes, perfectly hydrated is perfectly hydrated, but you can get more water in that grain by simmering, be it WBS, rye, whatever. Keeping your soak water hot helps a lot, too.


--------------------
Pat The Bunny said:
A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me.

bodhisatta said:
i recommend common sense and figuring it out.

These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.

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Invisibleblindingleaf
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Re: How I Do WBS [Re: 36fuckin5]
    #20258276 - 07/11/14 02:40 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

after a soak (at least 8 hours) i heat the pot up till its steaming kinda heavy.  if there are bubbles, its few and far btw.  this is really, for me, just to make it faster to get them dry on outside, it takes a long time to dry otherwise every time i have not heated it
for me, as long as it is plump, and pops like a pimple when pinched it should be good.  i often bite into it thru the heating, and make sure there is still some dry matter in the center, that will help the grain keep its integrity thru the entire grain colonization process and spawning to bulk.  for example, if u hold a kernel of prepped rye up to the light, there will still be about 30-40% solid in the middle, with a translucent look surrounding it.
if i only have time for 4 hour soak, i just need to heat it longer.  the soak just makes the shell softer, so it doesn't explode when its heated.
with WBS, it was always sticky, even if there were no bubble during the heating part, unless i added a lot of gypsum.  i also noticed, if i heated the water/WBS before starting the soak for a bit, maybe like ten minutes, then DRAINED that water, and refilled it with new water to start the long soak, it reduced stickiness as well.  i think that initial heating is just getting some of the extra starches out that WBS seems to inevitably have, so when u dump it, and start the actual soak, u don't have to worry about them lingering in the pot when u do the real heating later.
i use rye now for the simple reason that it just seemed like i needed to jump thru too many hoops to get WBS right.  wish it was cheaper, but hey, its grain spawn, and thats super important to get perfect for any grow, any species, and worth the extra $ for me at least


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InvisibleSpitballJedi
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Re: How I Do WBS [Re: 36fuckin5] * 1
    #20258784 - 07/11/14 05:09 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

36fuckin5 said:
I've done the tests myself. Simmering my grain always gets me more fruits.

If you're getting a lot of burst grains, you're probably boiling and not actually simmering. Most people don't know how to hold a proper simmer compared to a low boil. 5 bubbles per minute or so is all you want.

I'm not saying this way won't work, I'm just saying it's not 100% optimal. Yes, perfectly hydrated is perfectly hydrated, but you can get more water in that grain by simmering, be it WBS, rye, whatever. Keeping your soak water hot helps a lot, too.




That's where your wrong. It is 100% optimal. The water stuck to the WBS after draining seems to be the right amount of water for proper hydration.

WBS, when compared to rye, has a greater surface area to volume ratio. This may be why it can be done with WBS but not so ideal with rye.

You may be right. You might be getting more water in to the WBS by simmering, but that doesn't mean skipping it is less optimal. I'm confident that the difference in water is measured in the low gram area and has no measurable impact on yields, at least when considering other water sources that come in to the equation during the cultivation process.

Just to see, because I'm guessing, I will prepare WBS for 2 monos. I will weigh the grain so they are equal and use a typical amount. I will simmer one batch and PC, and no cook and PC the other. After they are cool, I will dump them and weigh them again. This will tell me the water difference. Sound reasonable?

After a couple hundred pounds each of no cook WBS and boiling rye, I have seen no difference in jar colonization times or yields. Maybe the equalizer is the fact that I dunk my grains after colonizing.

Although your logic seems reasonable, sometimes reality flies in the face of logic. I'm not trying to convince anyone to stop cooking WBS. I'm just offering an alternative that works equally well.


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Invisibleblindingleaf
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Re: How I Do WBS [Re: SpitballJedi]
    #20258850 - 07/11/14 05:27 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

It's the difference between 4 oz per flush or 6.




this seems like a pretty outrageous claim.  maybe if u are casing straight grains, but if u are spawning to bulk, i really can't see an average increase of 2 oz being normal from just the addition of a simmer.

who knows tho, i have never done such a test, so maybe I'm being equally outrageous...


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OfflineTheApprentice
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Re: How I Do WBS [Re: blindingleaf]
    #20258872 - 07/11/14 05:35 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

blindingleaf said:
Quote:

It's the difference between 4 oz per flush or 6.




this seems like a pretty outrageous claim.

who knows tho, i have never done such a test, so maybe I'm being equally outrageous...




i'm sorry, who said that?

i missed it.

but outrageous non the less.


I NEVER SIMMER ANY GRAIN. 

i just soak, wash and drain, dry then pc.

Jedi... I agree with PF... I use my floaters :lol:
they do make for great spawn :thumbup:


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InvisibleSpitballJedi
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Re: How I Do WBS [Re: blindingleaf]
    #20258884 - 07/11/14 05:38 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

blindingleaf said:
Quote:

It's the difference between 4 oz per flush or 6.




this seems like a pretty outrageous claim.  maybe if u are casing straight grains, but if u are spawning to bulk, i really can't see an average increase of 2 oz being normal from just the addition of a simmer.

who knows tho, i have never done such a test, so maybe I'm being equally outrageous...




I'm in agreement with you BL. Even in cased grains I don't see how there could be that big of a difference. Unless what I think I know is actually wrong, there would have to be a 2oz difference in water content in the grain, and that's per flush. Multiply that by however many flushes he is implying.


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InvisibleSpitballJedi
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Re: How I Do WBS [Re: TheApprentice]
    #20258888 - 07/11/14 05:39 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

to each his/her own on that one


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Invisibleblindingleaf
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Re: How I Do WBS [Re: SpitballJedi]
    #20258893 - 07/11/14 05:40 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

yup!  ^^


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OfflineTheApprentice
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Re: How I Do WBS [Re: SpitballJedi] * 1
    #20258900 - 07/11/14 05:42 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

SpitballJedi said:
to each his/her own on that one





awww you said HER :nicesmile:

but seriously, who said it was a 2oz difference?


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Re: How I Do WBS [Re: TheApprentice]
    #20258915 - 07/11/14 05:45 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/20257916#20257916

Quote:

36fuckin5 said:
It's the difference between 4 oz per flush or 6.




I think he may think I just pulled this tek out of my ass.


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