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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

Registered: 03/29/03
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Meta Thinking Woes, Too Much Awareness...
    #2025444 - 10/20/03 02:12 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Yup, I thought Awareness was a good thing...
so I practiced being aware of everything, every little
move, breath, thought etc...true Zen style...
Now I've discovered that I can barely Read or Write
anymore and have extreeme difficulty concentrating
on tasks (like programming software) cause I'm always
aware of what I'm doing :sad:
It's sheer madness... there are things we arn't supposed to
be aware of...like the billions of bacteria we breath in
with every breath...
I can barely make sense of anything anymore cause the
Awareness interferes with the process...
I think being unaware and automated is key to performing
most tasks efficiently...
so much for watching the thinker... :frown: 


--------------------
"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Meta Thinking Woes, Too Much Awareness... [Re: lucid]
    #2025474 - 10/20/03 02:23 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

> so I practiced being aware of everything, every little move, breath, thought etc...true Zen style...

... true Zen style? Mindful does not equate to aware of everything.


--------------------
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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

Registered: 03/29/03
Posts: 6,319
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Re: Meta Thinking Woes, Too Much Awareness... [Re: Seuss]
    #2025485 - 10/20/03 02:25 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
> so I practiced being aware of everything, every little move, breath, thought etc...true Zen style...

... true Zen style?  Mindful does not equate to aware of everything.
 



Expatiate please :smile:
My understanding is that Mindful means to be Aware...
Of course, word plays and nuances in meanings always abound,
but in a nutshell, that's my understanding...


--------------------
"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."


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OfflineMAIA
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Re: Meta Thinking Woes, Too Much Awareness... [Re: lucid]
    #2025489 - 10/20/03 02:26 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

That's lack of concentration, or at least you can't focus your concentration doing tasks you used to do.
Don't take me wrong but i would pay a visit to the doctor and ask him a vitamin supplement prescription, iron and phosphor are good ones.

MAIA


--------------------
Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala



Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
Voltaire


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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

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Re: Meta Thinking Woes, Too Much Awareness... [Re: MAIA]
    #2025554 - 10/20/03 02:42 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

MAIA said:
That's lack of concentration, or at least you can't focus your concentration doing tasks you used to do.
Don't take me wrong but i would pay a visit to the doctor and ask him a vitamin supplement prescription, iron and phosphor are good ones.

MAIA



I'm seeing a doc and a Therapist on a regular basis.
Take a Multi Vitamin, iron, Omega 3 oils, Vit E, C etc etc
daily n eat a healthy diet...
Concentration is paradoxical, the more u try to concentrate
u can't... it involves becomming part of the activity and
being unaware. So, awareness seems to hinder concentration...


--------------------
"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Meta Thinking Woes, Too Much Awareness... [Re: lucid]
    #2025587 - 10/20/03 02:49 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

> Expatiate please

Hmmm... I donno that I can...

Let me use an example. Lets say that I am working in the kitchen helping prepare the evening meal by cutting up a giant sack of onions into little onion bits.

I can be super aware of everything. I can notice the smell of the onions, the sound the knife makes cutting the onions, the size of the onion bits, the edge of the knife getting dull as it cuts, the small slices out of the cutting board every time the knife comes down, the smells of other food cooking, the...

or....

I can cut onions.


Being mindful doesn't mean to be aware of everything that is happening around you, but rather to be aware of your mind when it wonders from the simplicity of the task at hand.



--------------------
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Offlineseraphim
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Re: Meta Thinking Woes, Too Much Awareness... [Re: Seuss]
    #2025598 - 10/20/03 02:54 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Yes, that is much better. Well put, Seuss.


--------------------
trying to lose the monkey mind a little bit


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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

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Re: Meta Thinking Woes, Too Much Awareness... [Re: Seuss]
    #2025683 - 10/20/03 03:16 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
> Expatiate please

Hmmm... I donno that I can...

Let me use an example. Lets say that I am working in the kitchen helping prepare the evening meal by cutting up a giant sack of onions into little onion bits.

I can be super aware of everything. I can notice the smell of the onions, the sound the knife makes cutting the onions, the size of the onion bits, the edge of the knife getting dull as it cuts, the small slices out of the cutting board every time the knife comes down, the smells of other food cooking, the...

or....

I can cut onions.


Being mindful doesn't mean to be aware of everything that is happening around you, but rather to be aware of your mind when it wonders from the simplicity of the task at hand.






Being mindful means to be aware of your mind period, whether
it wanders or not...
In order to make the determination that the mind is wandering
from a task, the mind must be aware of whether it's on the
task or not - so it must be aware in both cases...
And the mind will wander...
Mindful also means to be aware of your reactions, so that
"u can learn 'how you create your suffering'"...
Watching the Thinker is a common meditative practice and
is commonly called "being mindful"/insight meditation/vipassena etc...


--------------------
"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Meta Thinking Woes, Too Much Awareness... [Re: lucid]
    #2025728 - 10/20/03 03:26 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Ah, but you put being aware and "Zen Style" together, so my answer was directed towards a Zen student rather than addressing common meditative practices... I cannot speak towards common practices, only towards Zen style meditation and mindfulness, which is what I was taught.

Subtle differences in cause can create drastic differences in effect.


--------------------
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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

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Re: Meta Thinking Woes, Too Much Awareness... [Re: Seuss]
    #2025778 - 10/20/03 03:42 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
Ah, but you put being aware and "Zen Style" together, so my answer was directed towards a Zen student rather than addressing common meditative practices... I cannot speak towards common practices, only towards Zen style meditation and mindfulness, which is what I was taught.

Subtle differences in cause can create drastic differences in effect. 



Maybe I'm doing something wrong, which is why I feel so awful :sad:

I've been practicing Vipassena style meditation as described/advocated
by Eckhart Tolle (popularized version), Jon Kabat-Zinn (author
of "whereever u go there u are", "full catastrophe living"),
Krishnamurti (an advocate of no-mind/quiet mind, observing the
thinker etc), Ram Dass etc.
I've read a bit on Zen as well (Allen Watts), and read
articles on the similarity of Zen and Vipassena
(e.g. at www.tricycle.com). My understanding has always been
that the presence of the Observer observing everything non-judgementally and unattached was the key to meditation and
Liberation from the Self. When u say "or I can just cut onions"
what exactly does that mean ? I mean it's fine in the context
of onions where the task is extreemly simple, but how does
that benefit say a Depressed or Anxious or otherwise Nurotic
person ? I mean it's analogous to saying "well just be" or
"well just be happy" - it's not saying very much...
I'd love to understand more, cause I think I might be
misunderstanding... :smile:


--------------------
"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."


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Anonymous

Re: Meta Thinking Woes, Too Much Awareness... [Re: lucid]
    #2025806 - 10/20/03 03:48 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Nah man, you're just in too deep

We aren't all capable of this shit you know


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Offlinesirreal
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Re: Meta Thinking Woes, Too Much Awareness... [Re: lucid]
    #2025827 - 10/20/03 03:54 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

It's like the difference in the way something smells and the way it tastes! You cannot truly taste it by smelling it.


--------------------
I may not always tell the truth, but atleast I'm honest
-----------

I see what everyone is saying. It is so hard to form an opinion when you see both sides so clearly!


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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

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Re: Meta Thinking Woes, Too Much Awareness... [Re: sirreal]
    #2025849 - 10/20/03 03:58 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

sirreal said:
It's like the difference in the way something smells and the way it tastes! You cannot truly taste it by smelling it. 



I don't get what the analogy referes to :frown:
difference between what ?


--------------------
"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Meta Thinking Woes, Too Much Awareness... [Re: lucid]
    #2025965 - 10/20/03 04:55 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

> You cannot truly taste it by smelling it.

Hold your nose and taste both an apple and an onion. Which is which?

> Maybe I'm doing something wrong, which is why I feel so awful

Doubtful, but I am not qualified to make such an assessment.

> but how does that benefit say a Depressed or Anxious or otherwise Nurotic person

Again, I am not qualified to answer your question. I can speak from personal experience, but that may or may not apply to your situation. There is a good chance than my ignorance would make your problem worse rather than better.




--------------------
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