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Ghatti
Totally not a Federal Agent

Registered: 06/23/14
Posts: 1,733
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Freezing substrates
#20241298 - 07/08/14 09:19 AM (10 years, 6 months ago) |
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Has anyone ever experimented with freezing substrates?
The idea being you hydrate a sub (coir for sake of discussion) then freeze it. In doing this in a conventional freezer the water expands and crystallizes, destroying cellular structure and possibly making components easier to break down.
Not sure how lignin and cellulose would act but I would think in the case of coir it would be favorable, much like (cooking) our substrate does.
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Ghatti
Totally not a Federal Agent

Registered: 06/23/14
Posts: 1,733
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Re: Freezing substrates [Re: Ghatti]
#20245278 - 07/08/14 11:13 PM (10 years, 6 months ago) |
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No thoughts on this? It's kinda like if you freeze a tomato then thaw it, all you get is mush. Between the hard freeze and then pasteurization, I theorize that nutrients would become more readily available and digestable.
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 62,905
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 21 minutes, 21 seconds
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Re: Freezing substrates [Re: Ghatti]
#20245372 - 07/08/14 11:37 PM (10 years, 6 months ago) |
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-------------------- It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn
I'm tired do me a favor
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TheEaglesGift
The Nagual


Registered: 04/10/11
Posts: 10,554
Loc: Ixtlan, Mexico
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Re: Freezing substrates [Re: cronicr]
#20245403 - 07/08/14 11:46 PM (10 years, 6 months ago) |
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In theory it sounds like a great idea, but I'm not how well it would translate to yields. I'm curious now.
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spore baby



Registered: 07/30/13
Posts: 4,918
Last seen: 9 years, 6 months
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Re: Freezing substrates [Re: Ghatti]
#20245482 - 07/09/14 12:07 AM (10 years, 6 months ago) |
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Edited by spore baby (12/19/14 08:02 PM)
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 62,905
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 21 minutes, 21 seconds
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Re: Freezing substrates [Re: spore baby]
#20245485 - 07/09/14 12:08 AM (10 years, 6 months ago) |
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if you ever need a pdf sporebaby has got yur back,spreads pdf's around liek they were an std
-------------------- It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn
I'm tired do me a favor
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Ghatti
Totally not a Federal Agent

Registered: 06/23/14
Posts: 1,733
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Re: Freezing substrates [Re: cronicr]
#20245501 - 07/09/14 12:12 AM (10 years, 6 months ago) |
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Nevermind what its called, someone go do it so I can take the credit already, I won't have clean spawn for another week or two
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spore baby



Registered: 07/30/13
Posts: 4,918
Last seen: 9 years, 6 months
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Re: Freezing substrates [Re: cronicr]
#20245502 - 07/09/14 12:12 AM (10 years, 6 months ago) |
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Edited by spore baby (12/19/14 08:02 PM)
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JohnnyRiloCybe
Permatrippin!



Registered: 02/26/13
Posts: 475
Loc: Isla Nublar
Last seen: 9 years, 9 months
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Re: Freezing substrates [Re: spore baby]
#20245559 - 07/09/14 12:25 AM (10 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
spore baby said: It's called Supercritical CO2 extraction:
Essential for 5meoDMT extraction from Mimosa, etc. In theory it makes sense but would also make it easier for competitor molds to flourish. You would have to use a strong colonizer for such a sub.
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Ghatti
Totally not a Federal Agent

Registered: 06/23/14
Posts: 1,733
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It really wouldn't make a difference as long as you pasteurized
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spore baby



Registered: 07/30/13
Posts: 4,918
Last seen: 9 years, 6 months
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Edited by spore baby (12/19/14 08:02 PM)
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 62,905
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 21 minutes, 21 seconds
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Re: Freezing substrates [Re: Ghatti]
#20245633 - 07/09/14 12:41 AM (10 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ghatti said: It really wouldn't make a difference as long as you pasteurized
i think the idea was sorta a cold pasturizing, hold on though i'l find ya a link.... http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/19655349#19655349 i don't recall any of the things you brought up being discussed or i would have more to say
-------------------- It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn
I'm tired do me a favor
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DeathSquad
Just a dude...


Registered: 04/23/14
Posts: 119
Last seen: 6 years, 4 months
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Re: Freezing substrates [Re: cronicr]
#20246373 - 07/09/14 06:50 AM (10 years, 6 months ago) |
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I would be worried about contamination. I was attempting an ovoid (seasonal wood lover)cultivation and tried freezing my substrate in order to mimic a winter period and spring thaw. Both attempts to freeze ended up with green penicillium mold growth. I had gotten this idea from a paper written by John Allen and Dan Molter detailing an indoor ovoid cultivation from colonized woodchips. They were successful in their attempt at freezing and thawing, so it's possible i might have screwed something up in the process.
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Ghatti
Totally not a Federal Agent

Registered: 06/23/14
Posts: 1,733
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Re: Freezing substrates [Re: DeathSquad]
#20246758 - 07/09/14 08:58 AM (10 years, 6 months ago) |
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I would only consider it along with proper pasteurization. Be interesting to note spawn run times and overall yield with an isolate on compost type subs as well as wood.
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Dos Ounce
Fighter of the Nightman



Registered: 09/07/12
Posts: 873
Loc:
Last seen: 4 years, 6 months
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Re: Freezing substrates [Re: Ghatti]
#20246810 - 07/09/14 09:15 AM (10 years, 6 months ago) |
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so maybe I missed something... but what is the freezing for exactly?
to stall it indefinitely until you wanna use it?
when people do any major surgery where you have to be put in a "suspended animated state" or whatever they call it, the person isn't actually frozen. they drop the temps to somewhere in the 40s usually.
so maybe you can just store it at like 35 F so you don't damage the cells?
just speculating here.
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Ghatti
Totally not a Federal Agent

Registered: 06/23/14
Posts: 1,733
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Re: Freezing substrates [Re: Dos Ounce]
#20246863 - 07/09/14 09:32 AM (10 years, 6 months ago) |
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Conventional freezing causes water to expand and crystallized, when it does this it destroys cell walls. For our purpose this may be useful to speed up spawn run or make nutrients more readily available.
Freeze, thaw, pasteurize, spawn as usual.
Edited by Ghatti (07/09/14 09:33 AM)
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Dos Ounce
Fighter of the Nightman



Registered: 09/07/12
Posts: 873
Loc:
Last seen: 4 years, 6 months
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Re: Freezing substrates [Re: Ghatti]
#20246898 - 07/09/14 09:40 AM (10 years, 6 months ago) |
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Ahhh i see
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 62,905
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 21 minutes, 21 seconds
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Re: Freezing substrates [Re: Dos Ounce]
#20247753 - 07/09/14 01:19 PM (10 years, 6 months ago) |
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if your gonna freeze then pasturize it's pointless, just pasturize it
-------------------- It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn
I'm tired do me a favor
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Ghatti
Totally not a Federal Agent

Registered: 06/23/14
Posts: 1,733
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Re: Freezing substrates [Re: cronicr]
#20248234 - 07/09/14 02:54 PM (10 years, 6 months ago) |
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For normal stuff I agree. But I highly doubt that 160 temp for an hour will break down cell structure like freezing will.
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 62,905
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 21 minutes, 21 seconds
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Re: Freezing substrates [Re: Ghatti]
#20248241 - 07/09/14 02:57 PM (10 years, 6 months ago) |
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yeah but it's proven to not be needed, now prove that it helps
-------------------- It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn
I'm tired do me a favor
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