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OfflineSpokesman
The HighPhilosopher

Registered: 08/05/03
Posts: 847
Loc: New Jersey U.S.
Last seen: 19 years, 9 months
Re: The Almighty Constitution [Re: moogle]
    #2020553 - 10/18/03 01:12 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Ok maybe i ran a little to harsh on the insult line there. Like Hicks once said "i dont mean to sound harsh and cruel but thats the way i am so it comes out that way" The truth is i dont belive they were all bad and like you said they were just comforming to the times. Still it just bothers me that the U.S. is constantly trying to protect this contract like it was writen by god. And if i lived on those times i wouldnt be able to own slaves, i would have BEEN a slave So i would HAVE to comform wether i wanted or not becaue i heard those wips were nothing funny.

Contrary to popular belief i dont hate the United States and think that the constitution has its pluses. But the United States only decides to defend our freedom at ceratain times.


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InvisibleTODAY
Battletoad
Male

Registered: 09/25/03
Posts: 10,218
Loc: Metropolis City, USA
Re: The Almighty Constitution [Re: moogle]
    #2020625 - 10/18/03 01:48 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

sorry fellas and felletes, but the idea that the authority that governs my life is granted by such an unnatural thing as a 200+ year old paper is just fucking ridiculous.


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ca'rouse (k-rouz)
intr.v.
To engage in boisterous, drunken merrymaking.

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Anonymous

Re: The Almighty Constitution [Re: TODAY]
    #2020690 - 10/18/03 02:12 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

would you prefer your government to not have limits and checks and balances set on it?

constitutions are the backbone of liberty. when you have a government that is not constitutionally limited, you will have tyranny.

now... about it being old... the US constitution is malleable. it changes. that's why we still have it.

seems to me that you're just bitching because it was written a long time ago by old white guys, some of which kept slaves... is that the idea?

how about this.... what do you think, specifically, is wrong with the constitution, as it is written?

how do you think government should be administered?

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InvisibleTODAY
Battletoad
Male

Registered: 09/25/03
Posts: 10,218
Loc: Metropolis City, USA
Re: The Almighty Constitution [Re: ]
    #2020701 - 10/18/03 02:17 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

mushmaster, you have just asked the questions that seem to illuminate the need for the constitution. i just feel like i could operate without it but i know that if there isn't a set order for all to follow and punishments for wrongdoing then chaos would surely unsue. just frustrating that we all can't get along without fear of punishment.


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ca'rouse (k-rouz)
intr.v.
To engage in boisterous, drunken merrymaking.

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InvisibleautomanM
blasted chipmunk
 User Gallery

Registered: 09/18/03
Posts: 8,272
Re: The Almighty Constitution [Re: ]
    #2020795 - 10/18/03 03:06 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

mushmaster said:
how do you think government should be administered?



i think that the US should be regionalized for national purposes. there would be a northeast region, a southeast region, a midwest region, a pacific northwest region, and a pacific southwest region. each regions consulate would serve together in a 5 person counsel that would take the place of the presidential office. so, no executive order could wage "war" without at least a majority opinion. also, they couldnt sign anything into law that at least 3 regions didnt approve of.

there would also be term limits on all federally elected offices.
also, the interstate commerce clause would be ratified to reflect the true intentions of our for fathers.

other than that, the US Constitution is a magnificent piece of work that has made this country the most powerful country in the world.


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No, no, you're not thinking, you're just being logical. ~ Niels Bohr

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OfflineSpokesman
The HighPhilosopher

Registered: 08/05/03
Posts: 847
Loc: New Jersey U.S.
Last seen: 19 years, 9 months
Re: The Almighty Constitution [Re: TODAY]
    #2020800 - 10/18/03 03:09 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

I agree with mushmaster, i think the constitution does set certain boundries as far as the goverment ruling our lives. The problem is that they only respect this important contract when it benefits them. They will usually twist around it to make it constitutional to limit our freedoms and privacy yet in other situations the excuse is given that we must obey the holy paper. As a minority in this country i can tell you that the Bill Of Rights doesent always apply to us. Im not a concpiricy theorist (not a full blown one anyway) but i find it strange that something unfortunate always happens to those who go against the grain. (Tupac Shaur, Bill Hicks, Martin Luther King, Malcom X, John F. Kennedy ect.) Yet the criminals in the white house, and sodomizing priest live till they are hunched over. These are the same criminals that day to day invade a big part of our privacy and right to choose our recreational hobbies. And at the same time they arguee everyday over what is constitutional and unconstitutional. Im not saying we should destroy the Constitution, im just saying we should be aware of the hipocracy of those who defend it.


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Anonymous

Re: The Almighty Constitution [Re: TODAY]
    #2020804 - 10/18/03 03:10 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

the constitution is not written as a limit on your behavior, or that of any other ordinary citizens. the constitution is a limit on government.

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Offlinemoogle
newbie

Registered: 10/03/03
Posts: 49
Last seen: 20 years, 5 months
Re: The Almighty Constitution [Re: ]
    #2020875 - 10/18/03 03:47 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

>That Constitution guarantees all your basic rights unconditionally.

This is a misconception. The constitution grants zero rights. All it does is say the gov. can't mess with these things, but they do anyway, laugh at you when you complain, bind your hands together, and throw you into forced labor camps (modern prison industry). Imagine what'll happen when everyone's a 'terrorist'.


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"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which can not fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance -- that principle is contempt prior to investigation."

-- Herbert Spencer

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Offlinestart25
member
Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 111
Last seen: 20 years, 2 months
Re: The Almighty Constitution [Re: automan]
    #2021014 - 10/18/03 04:54 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

"so, no executive order could wage "war" without at least a majority opinion. also, they couldnt sign anything into law that at least 3 regions didnt approve of."

Well congress tried to put checks on the president. After the Vietnam War, tensions were high in this country and people were very cynical. Congress passed the War Powers Act of 1972 to combat any future breaches of Presidential power in regards to going to war- but every president that has been in office since that says that he will not abide by it because it is "unconstitutional." The abuse of the executive order is sickening.

That is the problem we (have) face/d, too many corrupt policiticians willing to do sell the American people down the river.

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Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male

Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
Re: The Almighty Constitution [Re: start25]
    #2022310 - 10/19/03 08:30 AM (20 years, 5 months ago)

I think the problem is that people do not think about their government or what it is doing. I mean, how many people actually even think about the collective good?

The government is suspossed to be the spearhead of the collective. Active participation in our government by all would probably fix almost all problems our government suffers from. If everyone actually took time out of their self-centered thoughts to think about all the people in their country, what is going on and what is the best thing to do, and then actually put some effort in pushing the ball in that direction, we would be better off.

I mean, a lot of people just do not even focus attention on this stuff. They hear "more taxes" and they decide that it isn't good. Most people take what the government is doing for granted and push it out of their minds, which of course creates a seperate entity that glady takes the power and does with it what it wants.

If anything is ever going to change, every single person needs to pry the closed doors open. I mean, part of the responsibility of living in a country that offers so much is being concerned with what is going on with the country. I mean, I need to eat, you know?

If I am going to eat, I am going to have to something to get the food to eat. I am either going to have to put the effort into growing the food, or hunting it down, or doing labor to get the funds to purchase the food, or trading something for the food. The food doesn't come with no effort and no questions asked, as nothing does.

We either ask questions and become involved with our government, and what the government is doing is known to all and is being controlled by all, or we don't ask questions and don't get involved and let other people that ARE willing to put effort into controlling the government. I think the power needs to stay in the hands of everyone, don't you? Corruption in the executive office is of our own doing. Who the fuck elected them in the first place?
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

Edited by fireworks_god (10/19/03 08:32 AM)

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Offlinestart25
member
Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 111
Last seen: 20 years, 2 months
Re: The Almighty Constitution [Re: fireworks_god]
    #2022459 - 10/19/03 10:20 AM (20 years, 5 months ago)

I would love a country like you have described. However, what is it going to take to get people to wake up and think? This thread derides the constitution, yet the derider does not even know what the constitution says. What can you do when an american does not even know what the constitution of the united states entails?

In regards to your claim that we elect the executive branch- I do not buy it, here is one reason.

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/world/DailyNews/london001025.html

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Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male

Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
Re: The Almighty Constitution [Re: start25]
    #2022476 - 10/19/03 10:31 AM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

start25 said:
I would love a country like you have described. However, what is it going to take to get people to wake up and think? This thread derides the constitution, yet the derider does not even know what the constitution says. What can you do when an american does not even know what the constitution of the united states entails?





I really don't know what it will take to get everyone to wake up and think.. I just know that it won't happen at once. I guess the best way is to get actively participating oneself, and then try to get others to do the same...

What I do know that it is vital if the government isn't going to end up being completely in control of everything..

And that stuff in your link doesn't surprise me, either. I know that there are a lot of stuff going on like that, and that is my point: Other, "elite" forces are the ones deciding what is going on in government because no one else really even cares about what it is that is going on.
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Offlinestart25
member
Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 111
Last seen: 20 years, 2 months
Re: The Almighty Constitution [Re: fireworks_god]
    #2022497 - 10/19/03 10:49 AM (20 years, 5 months ago)

I'm optimistic that something eventually has to come out that completely exposes the evils that have been perpetrated against the people of the entire world. something that will guide our cynicism in a direction that makes us want to get to the bottom of everyhting verses making fun of how dumb George Bush sounds.

the people in the higher levels of government are not bumbling idiots, they are smart business men.

I just do not know what it will take- there have been many questionable issues that have come out that could lead to a mass awakening, the north woods documents always come to my mind first, but nobody, save a select few, seem to care.

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Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male

Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
Re: The Almighty Constitution [Re: start25]
    #2022512 - 10/19/03 11:08 AM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

start25 said:
but nobody, save a select few, seem to care. 
 




Exactly. But a cultural revoultion I see coming.. psychadelics spearheading it. It will come. We are a lot wiser now.....

But then, I am listening to Shpongle and thinking of my band as spearheading something, so I may just be crazy...

Then again, that just may be why I see it coming. :grin:
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Offlinestart25
member
Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 111
Last seen: 20 years, 2 months
Re: The Almighty Constitution [Re: fireworks_god]
    #2022558 - 10/19/03 11:57 AM (20 years, 5 months ago)

at least you're trying to do soemthing to make the truth known, you have to start somewhere.

i'm not really a fan of soul/hip-hop, but some of those artists (the ones not filling their videos with 100's of women in hot pants) are talking about a lot of government injustices and conspriacy stuff lately- I wish I knew some of their names, it was really refreshing to hear.

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InvisibleTODAY
Battletoad
Male

Registered: 09/25/03
Posts: 10,218
Loc: Metropolis City, USA
Re: The Almighty Constitution [Re: start25]
    #2022620 - 10/19/03 12:45 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

start25 said:
I would love a country like you have described. However, what is it going to take to get people to wake up and think? This thread derides the constitution, yet the derider does not even know what the constitution says. What can you do when an american does not even know what the constitution of the united states entails?





i know that the Constitution sets up how the Legislative, Executive, and Judicial branches are set up to work in conjunction with eachother...so it basically states how the government will be run. then it gives us our "basic rights" with the ammendments.

i know how it is run, i just do not like being told that i can't smoke pot or drink a beer until i'm 21 or drink a beer on the street or getting 2 tickets for riding my bike without a helmet (prior to my turning 18). i don't like that i have to be nervous around policemen. i'm a moral citizen and the fact that i have to be wary of the police if i am drinking or doing something else illegal (according to the laws that the constitution grants the legislature to write) is really FUCKED. In regards to the law, if i am not hurting anybody then please LEAVE ME THE FUCK ALONE is my message to the government.

i also don't like how federal law overrides state law and local law. local laws and state laws are sometimes more sensitive to things people face in that particular part of the country. the fact that federal agents can walk in and arrest somebody for abiding by the laws of their local or state government is pretty fucked up (ed rosenthal was protected under CA's prop 215 and he was going about is state granted legal business when the federal government came in and arrested him, potentially giving him a 60 year prison term).

i'm not talking trash about the US by any means because i do like it here, i just think certain things are off center.


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ca'rouse (k-rouz)
intr.v.
To engage in boisterous, drunken merrymaking.

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InvisibleTODAY
Battletoad
Male

Registered: 09/25/03
Posts: 10,218
Loc: Metropolis City, USA
Re: The Almighty Constitution [Re: Spokesman]
    #2022623 - 10/19/03 12:48 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Spokesman said:
Still it just bothers me that the U.S. is constantly trying to protect this contract like it was writen by god.





^^^spot on. this is how i was feeling but i couldn't put it into words.


--------------------

ca'rouse (k-rouz)
intr.v.
To engage in boisterous, drunken merrymaking.

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InvisibleTODAY
Battletoad
Male

Registered: 09/25/03
Posts: 10,218
Loc: Metropolis City, USA
Re: The Almighty Constitution [Re: TODAY]
    #2022629 - 10/19/03 12:52 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

starter25, dead prez is a group to listen to if you want to hear political hip hop. they don't seem to like white people much but the anit-government,wake-up-the-people raps are there if you want to hear them.


--------------------

ca'rouse (k-rouz)
intr.v.
To engage in boisterous, drunken merrymaking.

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Anonymous

Re: The Almighty Constitution [Re: fireworks_god]
    #2022652 - 10/19/03 01:01 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

The government is suspossed to be the spearhead of the collective.

i disagree. the government exists to prevent inviduals from initiating force against other individuals, and to provide a fair, objective system for dealing with such things when they do occur.

let us be clear that government = force. remember that. all government policy is backed by force. all government programs are funded with money taken by force. what is the only correct use of force? i say it is in response to force. initiation of force against peacful individuals is wrong when i do it, it's wrong when you do it, and it's wrong when elected officials do it.

if there was no such thing as force, we would not need government. government would actually be impossible in that case.

They hear "more taxes" and they decide that it isn't good.

it isn't. having your property taken from you under threat of force is not a good thing.

If I am going to eat, I am going to have to something to get the food to eat. I am either going to have to put the effort into growing the food, or hunting it down, or doing labor to get the funds to purchase the food, or trading something for the food. The food doesn't come with no effort and no questions asked, as nothing does.

absolutely. you do not get food by stealing it from those who have earned it, nor by electing government officials to steal it for you.

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Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male

Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
Re: The Almighty Constitution [Re: TODAY]
    #2022666 - 10/19/03 01:08 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

TODAY said:
i know how it is run, i just do not like being told that i can't smoke pot or drink a beer until i'm 21 or drink a beer on the street or getting 2 tickets for riding my bike without a helmet (prior to my turning 18). i don't like that i have to be nervous around policemen. i'm a moral citizen and the fact that i have to be wary of the police if i am drinking or doing something else illegal (according to the laws that the constitution grants the legislature to write) is really FUCKED. In regards to the law, if i am not hurting anybody then please LEAVE ME THE FUCK ALONE is my message to the government.




Well, you don't need to feel nervous around a policeman if you don't want to. Fuck, when I got illegally searched and subsquently arrested due to my glass bowl (fuckers would have loved to have found the coke that I just finished five minutes earlier, or the fact that I was so fucking drunk), I was constantly going off on the motherfucker.

But yeah. If you don't like the way things are going, do something to change them. Participate. Technically, we still have a say, and the government is at our will if we actually make our will known and get people off of their asses and moving and participating.

Fuck, if the majority of people got involved and made their opinion known to their representatives, anything could happen. We could all express our want of digging subterranean tunnels to chill out in, and if enough people wanted them, the government would start digging them...
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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