Home | Community | Message Board

Mushrooms.com
Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: North Spore Injection Grain Bag, North Spore Mushroom Grow Kits & Cultivation Supplies   Kraken Kratom Kratom Capsules for Sale, Red Vein Kratom   PhytoExtractum Maeng Da Thai Kratom Leaf Powder   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1 | 2 | 3  [ show all ]
InvisibleTODAY
Battletoad
Male

Registered: 09/25/03
Posts: 10,218
Loc: Metropolis City, USA
The Almighty Constitution
    #2019870 - 10/18/03 05:49 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

...Seriously, WTF is wrong with this country if we base all of our laws and policies on an a dirty old piece of paper. "so and so is going to jail for the rest of their life because of this little set of words in the all-knowing constitution".
why the FUCK should we believe and trust that this piece of paper has all of the righteous answers? i'm trying to say this a little better but it's late and i'm sleepy...if you get the jist of what i'm saying though i'd love to hear what others think about this.


--------------------

ca'rouse (k-rouz)
intr.v.
To engage in boisterous, drunken merrymaking.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
InvisibleLe_Canard
The Duk Abides

Registered: 05/17/03
Posts: 94,392
Loc: Earthfarm 1 Flag
Re: The Almighty Constitution [Re: TODAY]
    #2019880 - 10/18/03 05:57 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

That Constitution guarantees all your basic rights unconditionally. Except when certain polititions feel the need to use it as their doormat to "protect" us and establish the beginnings of a police state, as seen by this current administration. Just my 2 cents.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
InvisibleTODAY
Battletoad
Male

Registered: 09/25/03
Posts: 10,218
Loc: Metropolis City, USA
Re: The Almighty Constitution [Re: Le_Canard]
    #2019898 - 10/18/03 06:09 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

but our basic rights should really be gauranteed by the decency we should have towards our fellow man...its all too sad that it has to be like this.


--------------------

ca'rouse (k-rouz)
intr.v.
To engage in boisterous, drunken merrymaking.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
InvisibleLe_Canard
The Duk Abides

Registered: 05/17/03
Posts: 94,392
Loc: Earthfarm 1 Flag
Re: The Almighty Constitution [Re: TODAY]
    #2019948 - 10/18/03 06:27 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Well, yes..I see your point. If everyone was decent like you or I, in a perfect world, we'd have no need for such documents. Unfortunately, there are lots of not so decent people about, sad to say. :frown: 


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Invisibletak
geo's henchman
Male User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 11/21/00
Posts: 3,774
Loc: nowhereland
Re: The Almighty Constitution [Re: Le_Canard]
    #2020086 - 10/18/03 08:30 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

laws are like religion, after some time, they need to change and adapt to the new world. evolution didnt end with the bible and the constitution. It does guarentee some rights, but shit...they break them anyways.

It could work against us, and completely fuck us up...so im glad we have it to an extent, but things could be soo much better.


--------------------
The DJ's took pills to stay awake and play for seven days.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
InvisibleLe_Canard
The Duk Abides

Registered: 05/17/03
Posts: 94,392
Loc: Earthfarm 1 Flag
Re: The Almighty Constitution [Re: tak]
    #2020111 - 10/18/03 09:19 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

True, true. This is why there are allowances for later generations to add amendments. Some can reflect changing positive attitudes such as Article 19 allowing woman to vote. Others can be truly messed up, like Article 21, making Alcoholic beverages illegal.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Offlinestart25
member
Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 111
Last seen: 17 years, 10 months
Re: The Almighty Constitution [Re: TODAY]
    #2020195 - 10/18/03 11:21 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

I do not think you fully understand what the constitution is or entails.

The constitution was a type of contract that the founders created to sustain peace within the colonies since the articles of confederation were not working out. Under the articles, the central government could not raise enough money for a standing army, there were trade disputes and other general problems. The goal was to create a new government that was more centrally unified; yet let states retain their own sovereignty because after coming over form a monarchy in England, the early Americans were scared of the government getting too concentrated and becoming a dictatorship.

The constitution alone does not really guarantee many personal rights to you or make many laws accept very general ones like de facto laws and such. In addition, these laws were only supposed to protect you against the federal government, not the separate state laws. The Bill of Rights or the first ten amendments that were adopted 2 years later, but were promised if the states ratified the constitution are what now guarantee many of the freedoms that are in dispute, and this is only possible because of the 14th amendment and the concept of incorporation.

The constitution describes how the government is to operate, the jobs of all three branches, the checks they place on each other, and specific powers each branch holds. The states were to come up with their own state constitutions that guaranteed social freedoms and the local, more personal laws. This is still the way the country works today in some respects, the state legislatures either interpret and put a federal law into their law through bureaucracy, or in many cases come up with their own laws for their own separate state law codes that are then interpreted/enforced by the bureaucracy. The constitution has very little affect on those laws, especially by this day and age. When people talk about something being unconstitutional, they are usually referring to disputes about Bill of Rights, or a breach of power by the one of the branches or people of those branches.

The constitution is a brilliant document; sure, it is outdated in some areas, but not many (please do not cite the 3/5 compromise, that is a cheap shot, it was a different time when that was incorporated). The Bill of Rights is usually what we look back to when we are debating laws that straddle the line between sovereign rights and government presumptions on what laws should be. If you want to debase our laws, I agree with you, I have trouble with a lot of them too, but the constitution is not the root of these troubles- actually the amendments that came later are the root of some of our problems (the 14th and 16th come to mind), as well as federal legislation from the last century.

Unless of course you are referring to the way the constitution sets up for our laws to be made, then that is a whole other debate. I happen to think that it is pretty damn good system if people did not let it go to shit through greed and apathy.



Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
OfflineSpokesman
The HighPhilosopher

Registered: 08/05/03
Posts: 847
Loc: New Jersey U.S.
Last seen: 17 years, 5 months
Re: The Almighty Constitution [Re: start25]
    #2020209 - 10/18/03 11:31 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

This country believes that those mudereres, slave owning, rapist, fat bastard  who founded this country were perfect. They knew what they wanted for this country and we should pay homege forever and ever. Dont worry this is probably my last post on this subject so FLAME ON PATRIOTS!! :lol:


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Offlinestart25
member
Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 111
Last seen: 17 years, 10 months
Re: The Almighty Constitution [Re: Spokesman]
    #2020223 - 10/18/03 11:42 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

murderers and rapists... really, I know some had sexual relations with many women, and in some cases slaves, but to classsify them all as murderers and rapists seems harsh? those were the times though in regards to the other insults, very few people thought oustide of those norms- how do you know that if you lived in those times you wouldn't subscibe to the same norms, possibly even own slaves?


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Offlinemoogle
newbie

Registered: 10/03/03
Posts: 49
Last seen: 18 years, 1 month
Re: The Almighty Constitution [Re: start25]
    #2020294 - 10/18/03 12:47 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

What a terrific idea. Let's get rid of the 'outdated' constitution, so the U.S. government doesn't even have to make believe anymore that it's authority is granted by any lawful act.


--------------------
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which can not fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance -- that principle is contempt prior to investigation."

-- Herbert Spencer


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Offlinemoogle
newbie

Registered: 10/03/03
Posts: 49
Last seen: 18 years, 1 month
Re: The Almighty Constitution [Re: TODAY]
    #2020302 - 10/18/03 12:59 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

TODAY said:
"so and so is going to jail for the rest of their life because of this little set of words in the all-knowing constitution".
why the FUCK should we believe and trust that this piece of paper has all of the righteous answers?



If the constitution were actually enforced, then ANY prohibition would be unlawful without constitutional amendment -- all DEA agents would be executed for treason against the American Republic. Remember the alcohol prohibition? Why are they prohibiting all sorts of products when no constitutional amendment has been made? Hint: the government is operating outside the restrictions of it's own constitution, as no one is holding them to it.


--------------------
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which can not fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance -- that principle is contempt prior to investigation."

-- Herbert Spencer


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Offlinestart25
member
Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 111
Last seen: 17 years, 10 months
Re: The Almighty Constitution [Re: moogle]
    #2020305 - 10/18/03 01:01 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

A true statement. Unfortunately, if you want money to eat, you usually need a job, if you want a job, you need a social security number, if you want a social security number, you have to remain a franchise of the state and abide by its laws. You are a sub corporation of the United States and are bound to their laws by contract; it would be different if you were a sovereign person. See how we are trapped, the only way is to wake up, and change the system with the avenues the constitution preserved for us, and we do not have much time before those avenues are annihilated.

Oh, and if you think you are going to renounce your U.S. citizenship, claim a plot of land and live independently without a struggle- good luck.




Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Offlinestart25
member
Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 111
Last seen: 17 years, 10 months
Re: The Almighty Constitution [Re: moogle]
    #2020336 - 10/18/03 01:16 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

"If the constitution were actually enforced, then ANY prohibition would be unlawful without constitutional amendment -- all DEA agents would be executed for treason against the American Republic. Remember the alcohol prohibition? Why are they prohibiting all sorts of products when no constitutional amendment has been made? Hint: the government is operating outside the restrictions of it's own constitution, as no one is holding them to it."

Moogle you are very close and on the right track, but you are missing just a few key pieces of the puzzle. The United States is a corporation and from birth you are made a sub corporation- therefore you must abide by all its laws in order to adhere to the man made contract is has on you, otherwise it can punish you by the laws of the contract. The irs and federal reserve, social security system, 14th amendment and statutory courts make it so that you are not a sovereign person, therefore you must adhere to facets of these man-made contracts. This is leading to an all-encompassing fascist state in which people do not even know they are bound to.

I can post some links or go more in depth if you want. These institutions are key in understanding why the state can do these things to us and get away with it.




Edited by start25 (10/18/03 01:17 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Offlinemoogle
newbie

Registered: 10/03/03
Posts: 49
Last seen: 18 years, 1 month
Re: The Almighty Constitution [Re: start25]
    #2020348 - 10/18/03 01:22 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

start25 said:
Oh, and if you think you are going to renounce your U.S. citizenship, claim a plot of land and live independently without a struggle- good luck.
[Emphasis added]




Now might be a good time to mention that two types of citizenships exist within the United States (bet they didn't tell you that in high school): A citizen of the United States, and A Citizen of ONE OF the [u]nited States.


--------------------
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which can not fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance -- that principle is contempt prior to investigation."

-- Herbert Spencer


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Offlinestart25
member
Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 111
Last seen: 17 years, 10 months
Re: The Almighty Constitution [Re: moogle]
    #2020352 - 10/18/03 01:24 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

I didn't read the link, but does it refer to the choice of becoming an American National?


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Offlinemoogle
newbie

Registered: 10/03/03
Posts: 49
Last seen: 18 years, 1 month
Re: The Almighty Constitution [Re: start25]
    #2020361 - 10/18/03 01:30 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

start25 said:
I didn't read the link,



Go read it!


--------------------
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which can not fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance -- that principle is contempt prior to investigation."

-- Herbert Spencer


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Offlinestart25
member
Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 111
Last seen: 17 years, 10 months
Re: The Almighty Constitution [Re: moogle]
    #2020372 - 10/18/03 01:36 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

ok I just read it, but not sure I completely understand it. Is it saying that you can be a citizen of a state and only subject to the sates specific laws, and not the federal government's laws?
And if so can you explain how this would relate in regards to becoming an American national- it seems like becoming an american national would provide more freedom theoretically? in this day and age being a citizen of a state would put you under a lot of the same restraints that being a citizen of the United States would, no?


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Anonymous

Re: The Almighty Constitution [Re: TODAY]
    #2020390 - 10/18/03 01:44 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

the constitution describes how the government is to be run, and establishes checks and balances to ensure that it is indeed run this way.

the constitution limits the power of government, and i say that is a good thing.

now... if we can get them to start abiding by it a little more consistantly...


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Offlinemoogle
newbie

Registered: 10/03/03
Posts: 49
Last seen: 18 years, 1 month
Re: The Almighty Constitution [Re: start25]
    #2020404 - 10/18/03 01:55 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

start25 said:
The United States is a corporation and from birth you are made a sub corporation- therefore you must abide by all its laws in order to adhere to the man made contract is has on you, otherwise it can punish you by the laws of the contract.




No one can punish me by any fraudulent law or contract: the worst any can do is murder my physical body in cold blood, and I pity any man or woman who does so, as I ultimately would be harmed none, and those who engaged in such a negative karmic game might suffer for the rest of their existence.


--------------------
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which can not fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance -- that principle is contempt prior to investigation."

-- Herbert Spencer


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Offlinemoogle
newbie

Registered: 10/03/03
Posts: 49
Last seen: 18 years, 1 month
Re: The Almighty Constitution [Re: start25]
    #2020440 - 10/18/03 02:19 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

American National <==> State Citizen (basically).

Each of the States have sort of agreed, at least in the past, to consider Citizens of their fellow States amongst their own. There's no need for inter-state passport, etc.

Quote:

start25 said:
Is it saying that you can be a citizen of a state and only subject to the sates specific laws, and not the federal government's laws?




Mostly, it showed through supreme court rulings how the 14th amendment created a federal class of citizenship for former slaves. Now, the near entirety of americans have somehow been sucked into this class, placing them directly under the jurisdiction of congress (attempting to make you their property).

However, as a State Citizen or American National, you will only become subject to the federal government only when you constitutionally enter their jurisdiction. See the powers granted to them in Article I, Section 8. Most "municipal" (read: internal) jurisdictions, which are basically sub-corporations of the U.S. corporation, created by the act in 1871, may not be able to reign you in (at least lawfully). Almost all courts in the U.S. are not based in the common, constitutional law, but colorable law, and can only deal with colorable persons (corporations, in this instance U.S. corporations -- "U.S. citizens") This has a lot to do with destroying the gold currency in 1933, which I speak a little of in this thread.

I could probably definitely be wrong, as I stopped researching this subject a few years back, since I felt that I had grasped enough of what happened to the Law in this country, and that I could do more in other areas to a greater effect of good than here.

EDIT: "However, as a State Citizen or American National, you will only become subject to the federal government only when..."


--------------------
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which can not fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance -- that principle is contempt prior to investigation."

-- Herbert Spencer


Edited by moogle (10/18/03 02:34 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
OfflineSpokesman
The HighPhilosopher

Registered: 08/05/03
Posts: 847
Loc: New Jersey U.S.
Last seen: 17 years, 5 months
Re: The Almighty Constitution [Re: moogle]
    #2020553 - 10/18/03 03:12 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Ok maybe i ran a little to harsh on the insult line there. Like Hicks once said "i dont mean to sound harsh and cruel but thats the way i am so it comes out that way" The truth is i dont belive they were all bad and like you said they were just comforming to the times. Still it just bothers me that the U.S. is constantly trying to protect this contract like it was writen by god. And if i lived on those times i wouldnt be able to own slaves, i would have BEEN a slave So i would HAVE to comform wether i wanted or not becaue i heard those wips were nothing funny.

Contrary to popular belief i dont hate the United States and think that the constitution has its pluses. But the United States only decides to defend our freedom at ceratain times.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
InvisibleTODAY
Battletoad
Male

Registered: 09/25/03
Posts: 10,218
Loc: Metropolis City, USA
Re: The Almighty Constitution [Re: moogle]
    #2020625 - 10/18/03 03:48 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

sorry fellas and felletes, but the idea that the authority that governs my life is granted by such an unnatural thing as a 200+ year old paper is just fucking ridiculous.


--------------------

ca'rouse (k-rouz)
intr.v.
To engage in boisterous, drunken merrymaking.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Anonymous

Re: The Almighty Constitution [Re: TODAY]
    #2020690 - 10/18/03 04:12 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

would you prefer your government to not have limits and checks and balances set on it?

constitutions are the backbone of liberty. when you have a government that is not constitutionally limited, you will have tyranny.

now... about it being old... the US constitution is malleable. it changes. that's why we still have it.

seems to me that you're just bitching because it was written a long time ago by old white guys, some of which kept slaves... is that the idea?

how about this.... what do you think, specifically, is wrong with the constitution, as it is written?

how do you think government should be administered?


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
InvisibleTODAY
Battletoad
Male

Registered: 09/25/03
Posts: 10,218
Loc: Metropolis City, USA
Re: The Almighty Constitution [Re: ]
    #2020701 - 10/18/03 04:17 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

mushmaster, you have just asked the questions that seem to illuminate the need for the constitution. i just feel like i could operate without it but i know that if there isn't a set order for all to follow and punishments for wrongdoing then chaos would surely unsue. just frustrating that we all can't get along without fear of punishment.


--------------------

ca'rouse (k-rouz)
intr.v.
To engage in boisterous, drunken merrymaking.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
InvisibleautomanM
blasted chipmunk
 User Gallery

Registered: 09/18/03
Posts: 8,271
Re: The Almighty Constitution [Re: ]
    #2020795 - 10/18/03 05:06 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

mushmaster said:
how do you think government should be administered?



i think that the US should be regionalized for national purposes. there would be a northeast region, a southeast region, a midwest region, a pacific northwest region, and a pacific southwest region. each regions consulate would serve together in a 5 person counsel that would take the place of the presidential office. so, no executive order could wage "war" without at least a majority opinion. also, they couldnt sign anything into law that at least 3 regions didnt approve of.

there would also be term limits on all federally elected offices.
also, the interstate commerce clause would be ratified to reflect the true intentions of our for fathers.

other than that, the US Constitution is a magnificent piece of work that has made this country the most powerful country in the world.


--------------------
No, no, you're not thinking, you're just being logical. ~ Niels Bohr


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
OfflineSpokesman
The HighPhilosopher

Registered: 08/05/03
Posts: 847
Loc: New Jersey U.S.
Last seen: 17 years, 5 months
Re: The Almighty Constitution [Re: TODAY]
    #2020800 - 10/18/03 05:09 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

I agree with mushmaster, i think the constitution does set certain boundries as far as the goverment ruling our lives. The problem is that they only respect this important contract when it benefits them. They will usually twist around it to make it constitutional to limit our freedoms and privacy yet in other situations the excuse is given that we must obey the holy paper. As a minority in this country i can tell you that the Bill Of Rights doesent always apply to us. Im not a concpiricy theorist (not a full blown one anyway) but i find it strange that something unfortunate always happens to those who go against the grain. (Tupac Shaur, Bill Hicks, Martin Luther King, Malcom X, John F. Kennedy ect.) Yet the criminals in the white house, and sodomizing priest live till they are hunched over. These are the same criminals that day to day invade a big part of our privacy and right to choose our recreational hobbies. And at the same time they arguee everyday over what is constitutional and unconstitutional. Im not saying we should destroy the Constitution, im just saying we should be aware of the hipocracy of those who defend it.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Anonymous

Re: The Almighty Constitution [Re: TODAY]
    #2020804 - 10/18/03 05:10 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

the constitution is not written as a limit on your behavior, or that of any other ordinary citizens. the constitution is a limit on government.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Offlinemoogle
newbie

Registered: 10/03/03
Posts: 49
Last seen: 18 years, 1 month
Re: The Almighty Constitution [Re: ]
    #2020875 - 10/18/03 05:47 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

>That Constitution guarantees all your basic rights unconditionally.

This is a misconception. The constitution grants zero rights. All it does is say the gov. can't mess with these things, but they do anyway, laugh at you when you complain, bind your hands together, and throw you into forced labor camps (modern prison industry). Imagine what'll happen when everyone's a 'terrorist'.


--------------------
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which can not fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance -- that principle is contempt prior to investigation."

-- Herbert Spencer


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Offlinestart25
member
Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 111
Last seen: 17 years, 10 months
Re: The Almighty Constitution [Re: automan]
    #2021014 - 10/18/03 06:54 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

"so, no executive order could wage "war" without at least a majority opinion. also, they couldnt sign anything into law that at least 3 regions didnt approve of."

Well congress tried to put checks on the president. After the Vietnam War, tensions were high in this country and people were very cynical. Congress passed the War Powers Act of 1972 to combat any future breaches of Presidential power in regards to going to war- but every president that has been in office since that says that he will not abide by it because it is "unconstitutional." The abuse of the executive order is sickening.

That is the problem we (have) face/d, too many corrupt policiticians willing to do sell the American people down the river.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male

Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
Re: The Almighty Constitution [Re: start25]
    #2022310 - 10/19/03 10:30 AM (18 years, 1 month ago)

I think the problem is that people do not think about their government or what it is doing. I mean, how many people actually even think about the collective good?

The government is suspossed to be the spearhead of the collective. Active participation in our government by all would probably fix almost all problems our government suffers from. If everyone actually took time out of their self-centered thoughts to think about all the people in their country, what is going on and what is the best thing to do, and then actually put some effort in pushing the ball in that direction, we would be better off.

I mean, a lot of people just do not even focus attention on this stuff. They hear "more taxes" and they decide that it isn't good. Most people take what the government is doing for granted and push it out of their minds, which of course creates a seperate entity that glady takes the power and does with it what it wants.

If anything is ever going to change, every single person needs to pry the closed doors open. I mean, part of the responsibility of living in a country that offers so much is being concerned with what is going on with the country. I mean, I need to eat, you know?

If I am going to eat, I am going to have to something to get the food to eat. I am either going to have to put the effort into growing the food, or hunting it down, or doing labor to get the funds to purchase the food, or trading something for the food. The food doesn't come with no effort and no questions asked, as nothing does.

We either ask questions and become involved with our government, and what the government is doing is known to all and is being controlled by all, or we don't ask questions and don't get involved and let other people that ARE willing to put effort into controlling the government. I think the power needs to stay in the hands of everyone, don't you? Corruption in the executive office is of our own doing. Who the fuck elected them in the first place?
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


Edited by fireworks_god (10/19/03 10:32 AM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Offlinestart25
member
Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 111
Last seen: 17 years, 10 months
Re: The Almighty Constitution [Re: fireworks_god]
    #2022459 - 10/19/03 12:20 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

I would love a country like you have described. However, what is it going to take to get people to wake up and think? This thread derides the constitution, yet the derider does not even know what the constitution says. What can you do when an american does not even know what the constitution of the united states entails?

In regards to your claim that we elect the executive branch- I do not buy it, here is one reason.

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/world/DailyNews/london001025.html


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male

Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
Re: The Almighty Constitution [Re: start25]
    #2022476 - 10/19/03 12:31 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

start25 said:
I would love a country like you have described. However, what is it going to take to get people to wake up and think? This thread derides the constitution, yet the derider does not even know what the constitution says. What can you do when an american does not even know what the constitution of the united states entails?





I really don't know what it will take to get everyone to wake up and think.. I just know that it won't happen at once. I guess the best way is to get actively participating oneself, and then try to get others to do the same...

What I do know that it is vital if the government isn't going to end up being completely in control of everything..

And that stuff in your link doesn't surprise me, either. I know that there are a lot of stuff going on like that, and that is my point: Other, "elite" forces are the ones deciding what is going on in government because no one else really even cares about what it is that is going on.
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Offlinestart25
member
Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 111
Last seen: 17 years, 10 months
Re: The Almighty Constitution [Re: fireworks_god]
    #2022497 - 10/19/03 12:49 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

I'm optimistic that something eventually has to come out that completely exposes the evils that have been perpetrated against the people of the entire world. something that will guide our cynicism in a direction that makes us want to get to the bottom of everyhting verses making fun of how dumb George Bush sounds.

the people in the higher levels of government are not bumbling idiots, they are smart business men.

I just do not know what it will take- there have been many questionable issues that have come out that could lead to a mass awakening, the north woods documents always come to my mind first, but nobody, save a select few, seem to care.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male

Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
Re: The Almighty Constitution [Re: start25]
    #2022512 - 10/19/03 01:08 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

start25 said:
but nobody, save a select few, seem to care. 
 




Exactly. But a cultural revoultion I see coming.. psychadelics spearheading it. It will come. We are a lot wiser now.....

But then, I am listening to Shpongle and thinking of my band as spearheading something, so I may just be crazy...

Then again, that just may be why I see it coming. :grin:
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Offlinestart25
member
Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 111
Last seen: 17 years, 10 months
Re: The Almighty Constitution [Re: fireworks_god]
    #2022558 - 10/19/03 01:57 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

at least you're trying to do soemthing to make the truth known, you have to start somewhere.

i'm not really a fan of soul/hip-hop, but some of those artists (the ones not filling their videos with 100's of women in hot pants) are talking about a lot of government injustices and conspriacy stuff lately- I wish I knew some of their names, it was really refreshing to hear.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
InvisibleTODAY
Battletoad
Male

Registered: 09/25/03
Posts: 10,218
Loc: Metropolis City, USA
Re: The Almighty Constitution [Re: start25]
    #2022620 - 10/19/03 02:45 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

start25 said:
I would love a country like you have described. However, what is it going to take to get people to wake up and think? This thread derides the constitution, yet the derider does not even know what the constitution says. What can you do when an american does not even know what the constitution of the united states entails?





i know that the Constitution sets up how the Legislative, Executive, and Judicial branches are set up to work in conjunction with eachother...so it basically states how the government will be run. then it gives us our "basic rights" with the ammendments.

i know how it is run, i just do not like being told that i can't smoke pot or drink a beer until i'm 21 or drink a beer on the street or getting 2 tickets for riding my bike without a helmet (prior to my turning 18). i don't like that i have to be nervous around policemen. i'm a moral citizen and the fact that i have to be wary of the police if i am drinking or doing something else illegal (according to the laws that the constitution grants the legislature to write) is really FUCKED. In regards to the law, if i am not hurting anybody then please LEAVE ME THE FUCK ALONE is my message to the government.

i also don't like how federal law overrides state law and local law. local laws and state laws are sometimes more sensitive to things people face in that particular part of the country. the fact that federal agents can walk in and arrest somebody for abiding by the laws of their local or state government is pretty fucked up (ed rosenthal was protected under CA's prop 215 and he was going about is state granted legal business when the federal government came in and arrested him, potentially giving him a 60 year prison term).

i'm not talking trash about the US by any means because i do like it here, i just think certain things are off center.


--------------------

ca'rouse (k-rouz)
intr.v.
To engage in boisterous, drunken merrymaking.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
InvisibleTODAY
Battletoad
Male

Registered: 09/25/03
Posts: 10,218
Loc: Metropolis City, USA
Re: The Almighty Constitution [Re: Spokesman]
    #2022623 - 10/19/03 02:48 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Spokesman said:
Still it just bothers me that the U.S. is constantly trying to protect this contract like it was writen by god.





^^^spot on. this is how i was feeling but i couldn't put it into words.


--------------------

ca'rouse (k-rouz)
intr.v.
To engage in boisterous, drunken merrymaking.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
InvisibleTODAY
Battletoad
Male

Registered: 09/25/03
Posts: 10,218
Loc: Metropolis City, USA
Re: The Almighty Constitution [Re: TODAY]
    #2022629 - 10/19/03 02:52 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

starter25, dead prez is a group to listen to if you want to hear political hip hop. they don't seem to like white people much but the anit-government,wake-up-the-people raps are there if you want to hear them.


--------------------

ca'rouse (k-rouz)
intr.v.
To engage in boisterous, drunken merrymaking.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Anonymous

Re: The Almighty Constitution [Re: fireworks_god]
    #2022652 - 10/19/03 03:01 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

The government is suspossed to be the spearhead of the collective.

i disagree. the government exists to prevent inviduals from initiating force against other individuals, and to provide a fair, objective system for dealing with such things when they do occur.

let us be clear that government = force. remember that. all government policy is backed by force. all government programs are funded with money taken by force. what is the only correct use of force? i say it is in response to force. initiation of force against peacful individuals is wrong when i do it, it's wrong when you do it, and it's wrong when elected officials do it.

if there was no such thing as force, we would not need government. government would actually be impossible in that case.

They hear "more taxes" and they decide that it isn't good.

it isn't. having your property taken from you under threat of force is not a good thing.

If I am going to eat, I am going to have to something to get the food to eat. I am either going to have to put the effort into growing the food, or hunting it down, or doing labor to get the funds to purchase the food, or trading something for the food. The food doesn't come with no effort and no questions asked, as nothing does.

absolutely. you do not get food by stealing it from those who have earned it, nor by electing government officials to steal it for you.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male

Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
Re: The Almighty Constitution [Re: TODAY]
    #2022666 - 10/19/03 03:08 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

TODAY said:
i know how it is run, i just do not like being told that i can't smoke pot or drink a beer until i'm 21 or drink a beer on the street or getting 2 tickets for riding my bike without a helmet (prior to my turning 18). i don't like that i have to be nervous around policemen. i'm a moral citizen and the fact that i have to be wary of the police if i am drinking or doing something else illegal (according to the laws that the constitution grants the legislature to write) is really FUCKED. In regards to the law, if i am not hurting anybody then please LEAVE ME THE FUCK ALONE is my message to the government.




Well, you don't need to feel nervous around a policeman if you don't want to. Fuck, when I got illegally searched and subsquently arrested due to my glass bowl (fuckers would have loved to have found the coke that I just finished five minutes earlier, or the fact that I was so fucking drunk), I was constantly going off on the motherfucker.

But yeah. If you don't like the way things are going, do something to change them. Participate. Technically, we still have a say, and the government is at our will if we actually make our will known and get people off of their asses and moving and participating.

Fuck, if the majority of people got involved and made their opinion known to their representatives, anything could happen. We could all express our want of digging subterranean tunnels to chill out in, and if enough people wanted them, the government would start digging them...
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Offlinestart25
member
Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 111
Last seen: 17 years, 10 months
Re: The Almighty Constitution [Re: TODAY]
    #2022674 - 10/19/03 03:10 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Today- what I was trying to say in all my posts is that I agree with you. I consider myself a moral citizen too, and I hate the fact that I can't smoke a joint out in the moonlight because the misled masses buy propaganda, and are not ready to take responsibility for their own actions.

My point is that the constitution is not the root of these troubles. Go back and read my first post- the constitution and bill of rights may be the only reason we still can even talk about things like this, and they are not the reason why we are prohibited from doing certain things that seem so natural and fair to us. Corrupt politicians that have sold out our sovereignty are to blame.

I wish we all had good natures and could live without a contract, but not only do bad people exist, but also differences of opinion and truth exist. The constitution WAS a brilliant solution for all of us to contribute and work together.

The problem is that the rest of the country is not like this board- they don not think about the future, they are not privy to alternative knowledge and news, and they are so blinded by political ideologies that they cannot even make a decision on their own- they have to find out what the republican or democratic parties advocate first.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male

Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
Re: The Almighty Constitution [Re: ]
    #2022701 - 10/19/03 03:21 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

mushmaster said:
i disagree. the government exists to prevent inviduals from initiating force against other individuals, and to provide a fair, objective system for dealing with such things when they do occur.




The government encompasses so much more than that. It is suspossed to look out for the collective good for its citizens. To establish and maintain order. Does it use force to do this? Of course. Until the point where almost everyone is in a state of higher consciousness and doesn't need regulation, it will be this way, and we are better for it.

let us be clear that government = force. remember that. all government policy is backed by force. all government programs are funded with money taken by force. what is the only correct use of force? i say it is in response to force. initiation of force against peacful individuals is wrong when i do it, it's wrong when you do it, and it's wrong when elected officials do it.

Quote:


if there was no such thing as force, we would not need government. government would actually be impossible in that case.




If there was no such thing as force, nothing would happen. Force has always existed. Moving is force. When we are all dead, force will not exist, and everything, including government, would be impossible.

Quote:


it isn't. having your property taken from you under threat of force is not a good thing.




I could not even begin to list all of the ways that putting money into a system effects you in every moment. Unless you live outside a said system, you have to put into the system. That is how it works. Thank god for polution controls, food inspection, traffic systems, all the grants into the medical field, the mail system, so on and so fucking forth.

Quote:


absolutely. you do not get food by stealing it from those who have earned it, nor electing government officials to steal it for you.




I'm just glad that I am protected from having people come into my house and steal my food, and I am glad that there are regulations enforced to make sure that the food I am eating is of good quality and is not tainted. I am glad that there is a transportation system that was planned, constructed, and is maintained so that the said food could get to me. So on and so forth...
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Anonymous

Re: The Almighty Constitution [Re: fireworks_god]
    #2022758 - 10/19/03 03:51 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

If there was no such thing as force, nothing would happen. Force has always existed. Moving is force. When we are all dead, force will not exist, and everything, including government, would be impossible.

there's nothing wrong with a consentual transaction... force in this context means a transaction where one of the individuals or parties involved is unwilling, but compelled through coercion rather than persuasion.

The government encompasses so much more than that. It is suspossed to look out for the collective good for its citizens.

what do you mean by the collective good?

To establish and maintain order. Does it use force to do this? Of course.

if by order you mean peace, then that's right. what do you mean by order?

I could not even begin to list all of the ways that putting money into a system effects you in every moment. Unless you live outside a said system, you have to put into the system. That is how it works.

one doesn't have the option of living outside the "system" though.

polution controls

of course. pollution controls fall into the force\fraud idea. if someone poisons the air you breathe or water you drink, they've initiated force against you...

food inspection, traffic systems, all the grants into the medical field

debatable.

mail system

why should the government run the mail system? why isn't this something that can be done by private companies? (it actually is to some extent... there's fedex and UPS... and i think that even the USPS doesn't receive government funding. it's like a private company run by the government.. i think).


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male

Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
Re: The Almighty Constitution [Re: ]
    #2022832 - 10/19/03 04:24 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Well, it is basically coming to outlook now, whether having a government is positive or negative.. By the collective good I mean the collective good of its citizens. Health and welfare, security, so on...

But anyways, the absence of the goverment's force has good effects and bad effects, just as having a government does. Everything has good and bad consequences, I guess.
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Jump to top Pages: 1 | 2 | 3  [ show all ]

Shop: North Spore Injection Grain Bag, North Spore Mushroom Grow Kits & Cultivation Supplies   Kraken Kratom Kratom Capsules for Sale, Red Vein Kratom   PhytoExtractum Maeng Da Thai Kratom Leaf Powder   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* This Is Your Brain on God - Michael Persinger has a vision - the Almighty isn't dead, he's an energy Divinorum 1,614 3 09/23/09 10:48 PM
by explosiveoxygen
* Constitutional Fundamentalism Lakefingers 489 2 01/12/11 02:20 PM
by Silversoul
* Ecuador constitution would grant inalienable rights to nature Lakefingers 774 10 09/15/08 01:07 PM
by Lakefingers
* What constitutes sentience?
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 all )
teknix 2,894 159 10/21/17 06:57 AM
by Ferdinando
* Does omission constitute lying? AntiEverything 578 10 01/15/12 02:40 PM
by Diploid
* The Great, Almighty Shroomery Religion Poll - Revised
( 1 2 all )
Ferris 3,811 31 05/10/08 05:39 PM
by Ferris
* The Great, Almighty Shroomery Religion Poll
( 1 2 all )
Ferris 2,370 23 05/07/08 09:19 PM
by ray40cal
* Philosophical debate- what does it take to constitute a valid argument? johnm214 2,071 15 04/13/11 09:36 PM
by xFrockx

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, Jokeshopbeard, DividedQuantum
2,778 topic views. 4 members, 4 guests and 5 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Print Topic | ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2021 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.038 seconds spending 0.007 seconds on 16 queries.