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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > The Psychedelic Experience
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Re: Where to draw the line---in the world of drugs? [Re: the free thinker]
    #2026236 -

I have always felt that if a substance is capable of ending your life (literally), it should be treated with much more respect than something that cannot. Not that self-respect and respect for whatever you are taking shouldn't be exercised in every circumstance pertaining to altering one's conciousness.

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Re: Where to draw the line---in the world of drugs? [Re: the free thinker] * 1
    #2026307 -

> IMO dimitri you sound like such a fucking idiot

Please, no personal attacks.  Attack the subject, not the person.

> i know that all of you guys have such great faith in the drug culture and that no harm can ever come out of it.

I think this is the main difference between us.  I know that some drugs can be bad for me to take, and I make a personal and responsible choice to educate myself and to refrain from taking those substances.  If somebody else asks, I will point out the dangers.  I am not going to take a stand against somebody else having the freedom to make the same choice that I did.

You, on the other hand, seem to think that I should be protected from myself by making these dangerous substances illegal.  If somebody wants to hang themselves, I am going to be the first person to hand them a rope.  People must be resopnsible for their own actions.  If somebody wants to take heroin, who am I to tell them they cannot?

> Cocaine and heroin ruin lives thats why their called hard.

So do peanuts.  I have seen a person die from a peanut allergy and it wasn't pretty.  Should we outlaw peanuts as well?  What about cars... I have also seen people die after a car wreck, and it wasn't pretty either.  Should we outlaw cars as well.

My point here is that life is hard.  People die.  Some people die horrid deaths.  Some people are saints and others drug addicts and yet others are serial killers or rapists.  Changing one aspect of life, by making certain random substances illegal, does nothing to make life less hard.

If you won't listen to me, then follow God's example.  We could have been created so that we couldn't have picked the apple from the tree.  We could have been created so that we have no choices in life at all... forced to live by Gods will alone.  Would we learn or grow as people if this were the case?  God giveth, man taketh away.  I know which example I will follow...

> Isn't he entitled to think that?

Of course he is, as long as his thoughts don't impede upon my freedom and my freedom doesn't impede upon his thoughts.  Again, I am willing to let you think and do as you wish; why can you not do the same for me?

I have noticed a consitent thread running through your posts... please correct me if I am wrong.  You seem to think that all 'hard' drug users become addicts and that all addicts end up going down the social toilet so to speak.  I can tell you for fact that at least one of the moderators on the shroomery used to be a hard core heroin addict.  He lived on the streets in San Fran, etc.  He now has a family and is putting himself through college.  This is a person that has gone through hell and grown for the experience.  I am sure he wouldn't wish his experience on anybody else, and would skip that part of his life if he could, but he would not be the person he is today without having gone down that road.

Freedom is hard.  I have to be willing to stand quietly and let somebody yell at the top of their lungs that which I have spent a lifetime fighting against.  Likewise, that person must stand quietly and let me yell at the top of my lungs that which they have spent a lifetime fighting against.  People want the easy solution... outlaw it so I can pretend the problem isn't there... rather than working for the hard solution of education, and rehabilitation.

My love is strong.  I would much rather help a drug addict find himself than watch the same man sit in prison rottting away.  Moral obligations are the resonsibility of the family, the church, and the community, NOT the government.  Since yous seem to have all the answers, when was the last time you bought the bum/crackhead on the street lunch?  When was the last time you tried to truely help some of these people in a way other than tossing them in prison?  For me, it was a few hours ago.  Try talking to those that you are typecasting sometime... you might be pleasently surprised at how human they are.

Please don't flame... choose heaven, not hell.  :heart:


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Just another spore in the wind.

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Re: Where to draw the line---in the world of drugs? [Re: Seuss]
    #2026552 -

That was fucking beatiful. Especially the last two paragraphs. Very, well said.

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Re: Where to draw the line---in the world of drugs? [Re: one800chiapet]
    #2026967 -

Where does he say you shouldnt be able to take these drugs and that they should not only be illegal but prisonable offenses? There is a lot of between room to wiggle around. they can be legal and he can still think noone should use them (or at least that they should be treated with extreme caution and hopefully avoided) or they can be illegal and the 'punishment' is attending a drug rehabilitation and education center or something.


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Magash's Grain Tek  + Tub-in-Tub Incubator + Magash's PMP + SBP Tek + Dunking = Practically all a newbie grower needs :thumbup:

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Re: Where to draw the line---in the world of drugs? [Re: the free thinker]
    #2027006 -

the free thinker said:
Man fuck Seuss I'm done with this thread - do all the hard drugs you want. They have that name for a reason dumbass. Nicotine and alcohol aren't hard drugs.


shlt, they sure cause a lot more deaths than any others. What is harder than being the leading cause of death in the drug world? if you ask me, thats pretty hard. Tell the person dying of hepatitis, whose can't get a liver transplant because of the rich alcoholics above him in the queue, that alcohol is not a hard drug.


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_______________________________________________________________
namaste said:
no flamz in da ODD, if you got nothing to contribute then keep yo lips zipped
_________________________________________________________________

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Re: Where to draw the line---in the world of drugs? [Re: Noviseer]
    #2027071 -

From what I've read (very little). You don't get a liver transplant if you are an alchoholic. http://www.emedicinehealth.com/articles/13891-1.asp
Scroll down to "who may not be given a liver".

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Re: Where to draw the line---in the world of drugs? [Re: one800chiapet]
    #2027083 -

Trust me...they may say that but if some moviestar alcoholic needed a liver....Hed get pushed to the front of the list in no time.

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Re: Where to draw the line---in the world of drugs? [Re: the free thinker]
    #2027149 -

Oh, so I sound like a fucking idiot for stating what I think...but it's perfectly okay for him to speak his mind, but only as long as he agrees with you. You sound like an angry little goth child. Drop the Vicoden and go brew yourself some ayahuasca.

"there's nothing wrong with doing an opiate, but not heroin"

There's nothing wrong with drinking alcohol; as long as it's not Everclear.


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In the end, my friend, we will all be together again.

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Re: Where to draw the line---in the world of drugs? [Re: DiMiTriSouljah]
    #2027756 -

OMG I cannot believe you say there is a difference between heroin and another opiate. They all are very much the same when it comes down to it. I know a few ex heroin addicts that become addicted to prescription opiates after they kick heroin.

The only thing that might make it slightly safer is that there are more places than street dealers to get meds from. However, physically they are basically the same. An opiate is an opiate. Your reasonings for things being hard drugs because people call them that is generic.

The current top legal drugs kill more people every year than the illegal ones. The problem lies within it being a crime to use such substances. That is what makes organized crime, street impurities, and suicides. Look at the statistics. I wonder how mnay people actually die from an OD of heroin as opposed to the violence or suicides that could come along with imprisionment withdrawals stealing etc.

I feel that these drugs should be respected not feared. I mean, is heroin was a puzzle, its package would say "For advanced users only".
If we set up a drug license program, much like one gets his or her pilot licence, then maybe that would help regulate substances, as well as educate people about them, making them safer to those who have access to them. Heroin is definatly a drug for more experienced users, due to the potential harm that can come of it, but I have no place to say who should and shouldn't use, even experienced and knowledgeable people can fall into addiction.

Licenses, fair regulations, and harm reduction are the only ways to really deal with drugs and win. I mean, if someone got a ration each month or week or something if they had a license would be ok. And sure the person could take the classes and get the license to sell it to people. But there would be very little value left in street dealing, and I am pretty sure once the easy money from drug dealing is almost taken out as much as possible from the equation, a lot of money grubbing drug pushes will leave the scene and try to find other ways to make money, hopefully more productive ways. I mean there wouldn't be many people who would buy something sold on the street if they could take a class and get more for free, or for a smaller price.

Just my opinion.

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Re: Where to draw the line---in the world of drugs? [Re: PDU]
    #2027937 -

I think if I could turn back time and know the things that I know now that I would have tried EVERY drug, but only one time...I would have experienced the drug to the fullest...enjoyed it...and turned and walked away.

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Re: Where to draw the line---in the world of drugs? [Re: caolite]
    #2028249 -

Good post caoilte.

We need some badly needed perspective on heroin. 100 years ago mothers would buy heroin over the counter and give it to their children to help them with colic and a cough. It really isn't that monstrous a drug. It is possible for someone to fuck themselves up with it but that's about 99% down to the person and 1% down to the drug.


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Don't worry, B. Caapi

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Re: Where to draw the line---in the world of drugs? [Re: Xlea321]
    #2029177 -

I draw the line at alcohol, heroin, coke, and speed of any kind.
After living with an alcoholic parent, alcohol scares me to death.

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Re: Where to draw the line---in the world of drugs? [Re: ChopperDave]
    #2030619 -

draw the line....when you start to bang it in your vein


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I've been first and last
Look at how the time goes past.
But I'm all alone at last.
Rolling home to you.

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Re: Where to draw the line---in the world of drugs? [Re: MilkVein]
    #2030847 -

^
Shooting up is the only thing I will never do.
I know two personal friends (well, one half-family) that have died from it. Not even overdoses... not even that much use... just like blam... fell over dead after a needle or two..

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Re: Where to draw the line---in the world of drugs? [Re: Psilo707]
    #2030928 -

^^^^ so what caused it?


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Magash's Grain Tek  + Tub-in-Tub Incubator + Magash's PMP + SBP Tek + Dunking = Practically all a newbie grower needs :thumbup:

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Re: Where to draw the line---in the world of drugs? [Re: Tao]
    #2031052 -

I would agree with suess...

well I do, but I still have the memory of seeing a girl I knew shooting up in the park, then later hearing she O.D.ed, kinda turned me off of drugs of a while. I stated using weed and beers and shrooms again, but still cautiosly. Like you said, we set our own limits, I guess I set mine, but herion still kinda makes me upset... I know its not the actual drug and the problem could have arisen from any number of drugs/behaviors, but the image is burnt into my mind.

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Re: Where to draw the line---in the world of drugs? [Re: Tao]
    #2031053 -

People just don't fall over dead, there had to be a reason. You say it was not an overdose? You should ask how they died...

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Re: Where to draw the line---in the world of drugs? [Re: caolite]
    #2031093 -

Im sure injecting drugs intraveinously (sp) is probably the safest way, if proper sterile measures are taken. The only thing safer would be digesting them, like making a marijuana brownie. But I wouldnt go as far as shooting up to get high. I dont like needles and I have a very low tolerance for pain. Thats just me though. Heroin has a stigma because most people who die from vein complications (like in Requiem For A Dream) dont take proper precautions. I know a few guys who do heroin, and they break the entire stereotype. They all get straight A's, never been in trouble with the law, and there parents are very wealthy. After looking at their arms, its nigh impossible to see their 'tracks'. I dont really think theres a general line to when drugs get 'hard'. It all depends on self control and proper precautions. If drugs are to be legalized, you should have to take a test, kinda like a drivers license test. You get a booklet, study it, learn about the drug, its pros and cons, and then take a test. Then you get your license. Kinda stupid, but I think thats the safest way. Information is the greatest weapon.

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Re: Where to draw the line---in the world of drugs? [Re: ChopperDave]
    #2031172 -

Ha I said something like that above ;D

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Re: Where to draw the line---in the world of drugs? [Re: caolite]
    #2031708 -

> If drugs are to be legalized, you should have to take a test, kinda like a drivers license test.

*laugh*  That is a clever idea.  I like it!  I can see it now... I wanna smoke, but I lost my drug licence the other day for getting trashed on PCP and running down the streets nude.  :grin:


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.

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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > The Psychedelic Experience
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