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OfflineTHATS iT!
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Registered: 12/26/02
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Quickly!
    #2014326 - 10/16/03 01:25 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quickly, someone, tell me this.
Is boiling water and rye grain good for spore germination?

I say quickly because I am about to try again. I realize that this is not an advanced question but I feel this needs to be addressed by the experts. I boiled grain, after soaking for one day, and took proper precautions with 12 pint jars 2 weeks ago. None show signs of mycelular growth.

To make this interesting I will give my hypothesis on what has happened. I will start by giving the botany of the rye grass grain which is seed fresh from the seed head. The grass seed is made of several parts. The embryo houses the coleoptile, the preformed grass shoot, and the radicle, the preformed root. Both are apicle meristems, points of growth. Two leaves cover the apical dome inside the coleoptile and the root cap hides the primary root, radicle, inside the coleorhiza. Grass seed is a monocot, having one cotolydon or endosperm. This makes up the majority of the root. The endosperm is the embyo's nutritional storage house. The pericarp, also known as seed coat, is the covering of the embryo and cot. Imbibing, soaking the seed, causes the dry endosperm to expand, breaking the pericarp, which allows mushroom spores to enter and feed from fleshy material. The embryo produces hydrolitic enzymes which break down the starch of the endosperm into carbohydrates. Then the radicle breaks through the pericarp where a positive gravitropic effect occurs causing the root to move into the soil.

Hypothesis: The rotting endosperm, made of starch, is boiled. This speeds up fermentation causing ethanol or some sort of alchohol to be formed. Mushroom spores cannot germinate and produce mycelia in an ethanol based enviroment. That is the reason for no growth. I have grown shrooms on rye grain before but this is the first time I have boiled it.


Edited by THATS iT! (10/16/03 01:27 PM)


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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: Quickly! [Re: THATS iT!]
    #2014338 - 10/16/03 01:30 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Rye grass seed or rye grain?

Rye grain should be pressure cooked.


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OfflineTHATS iT!
mellow
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Re: Quickly! [Re: Anno]
    #2014380 - 10/16/03 01:43 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

It is the same thing. Grain refers, in terms, to the male inflourescen, flower. Pollen grain as an example. But cultivation cannot happen on a pollen grain. There is no unfertilized seed. So the fertilized seed is refered to as grain. Harvesting grain would be the taking of the seed from the seed head of the plant.


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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: Quickly! [Re: THATS iT!]
    #2014422 - 10/16/03 02:00 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

>It is the same thing.

Nope.

The one thing is "rye grass" , and the other thing is "rye".

NOT the same, not at all!


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Invisibleeric_the_red
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Re: Quickly! [Re: THATS iT!]
    #2014512 - 10/16/03 02:31 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

rye grass:


rye grain:
[


--------------------


Anno cock? is that some kind of Greek liqueur? -Geo's All Knowing Sex Slave


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OfflineTHATS iT!
mellow
Registered: 12/26/02
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Re: Quickly! [Re: Anno]
    #2014513 - 10/16/03 02:32 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

What other ryes are there? There is rye grass and rye what? Bread? but even that comes from rye grass. All that information I just posted comes from Turfgrass Management 5th edition by: A.J. Turgeon. From the library of N.C. State University.

I was wrong on my hypothesis. Starch at heating to 150 degrees is changed into dextrin which is supposed to hinder fermentation.
I dont know what I am doing wrong?


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Invisibleeric_the_red
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Re: Quickly! [Re: THATS iT!]
    #2014532 - 10/16/03 02:36 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

rye grain = Secale cereale

rye grass = Lolium perenne


--------------------


Anno cock? is that some kind of Greek liqueur? -Geo's All Knowing Sex Slave


Edited by eric_the_red (10/16/03 02:40 PM)


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OfflineTHATS iT!
mellow
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Re: Quickly! [Re: Anno]
    #2014573 - 10/16/03 02:46 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Secale cerale, and it is still a grass.


Edited by THATS iT! (10/16/03 02:47 PM)


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Invisibleeric_the_red
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Re: Quickly! [Re: THATS iT!]
    #2014584 - 10/16/03 02:49 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

lolium perenne

Ray grass \Ray" grass`\, [Etymol. of ray is uncertain.] (Bot.) A perennial European grass (Lolium perenne); -- called also rye grass, and red darnel. See Darnel, and Grass.

Lolium perenne
n : European perennial grass widely cultivated for pasture and
hay and as a lawn grass [syn: perennial ryegrass, English
ryegrass, Lolium perenne]


Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913)




LOLIUM L. Ryegrass
Plants hermaphroditic, caespitose, annual. Culms erect or ascending or decumbent, glabrous; internodes hollow, terete. Leaves cauline; sheaths terete, margins open; auricles present (membranous); ligules membranous; blades flat or folded (narrow). Spikes with rachis persistent. Spikelets solitary, laterally compressed; disarticulation above glumes, awned or awnless, sessile; florets 5-9, reduced floret at apex; callus glabrous; rachilla not extending above upper floret; glumes 1; the first absent on all but the terminal spikelet, second glumes 3-7-veined (round on back), shorter than first floret or longer than spikelet, glabrous, awnless; lemmas 5-7-veined, membranous to chartaceous, glabrous or scabrous, apex obtuse to acute, awned to awnless, awns (1)apical (straight); paleas 2-veined, awnless, glabrous or scabrous, veins short ciliate. Stamens 3; anthers yellow. Caryopses slightly adnate to lemma and palea, dorsiventrally compressed. Base chromosome number x=7.
A temperate genus of about eight species from Eurasia and northern Africa. The species are important for livestock forage, lawns, and as weeds.


http://eesc.orst.edu/agcomwebfile/edmat/html/pnw/pnw503/pnw503.html




--------------------


Anno cock? is that some kind of Greek liqueur? -Geo's All Knowing Sex Slave


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Invisibleeric_the_red
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Re: Quickly! [Re: THATS iT!]
    #2014609 - 10/16/03 02:59 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

THATS iT! said:
Secale cerale, and it is still a grass.

Edited by THATS iT! (10/16/03 01:47 PM)





nice try, but i saw it before you changed it.


--------------------


Anno cock? is that some kind of Greek liqueur? -Geo's All Knowing Sex Slave


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OfflineTHATS iT!
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Re: Quickly! [Re: eric_the_red]
    #2014647 - 10/16/03 03:08 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

They are both seeds and both types of grass. If you plant Lolium sp., grass will sprout. If you plant Secale sp., grass will come up. If you plant corn, grass will come up. All of these seeds sprout the way I described. They are all monocots. It doesnt matter what kind they are or their uses. They are both planted in fields. One is used for grazing the other for harvesting. They are both harvested the same way, by removing the fertilized embryo from the ovary. It doesnt matter. One will grow mushrooms, the other will grow mushrooms.


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Invisibleeric_the_red
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Re: Quickly! [Re: THATS iT!]
    #2014672 - 10/16/03 03:16 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

i just wanted to prove to you that anno is right, so that you would accept the help he gave you.

i give up.


Quote:

Anno said:
Rye grass seed or rye grain?

Rye grain should be pressure cooked.




Quote:

Anno said:
>It is the same thing.

Nope.

The one thing is "rye grass" , and the other thing is "rye".

NOT the same, not at all!








--------------------


Anno cock? is that some kind of Greek liqueur? -Geo's All Knowing Sex Slave


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OfflineRaadt
nicht

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Re: Quickly! [Re: THATS iT!]
    #2014676 - 10/16/03 03:17 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

You are an idiot.

You're arguing a point that has been proven TO YOU. Okay, they are both grasses. But that doesn't mean that they are the same thing, which YOU SAID THEY ARE. They are 2 different entities.

Now back to your original question, no - boiling is not going to work.


--------------------
Raadt

-- The information I provide is only information from readings, growing of gourmet mushrooms, and second hand stories--


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OfflineRaadt
nicht

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Re: Quickly! [Re: THATS iT!]
    #2014707 - 10/16/03 03:23 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Oh yes, and alcohol is not caused by fermentation. It's caused by fermentation of YEAST. Yeast would not be present if properly cooked, because it would be killed.

If there's an alcohol, it's because there's a yeast organism in your grain, which means it was not properly sterilized.

Which leads us back to the point, rye needs to be PC'd.

Rye grass will work for mushroom cultivation, but it is not as nutritious as rye grain, and it is not the same size or consistancy. So if i give you a ratio for rye grain, even though they are "the same thing", it will not work for rye grass. So until you get over the fact that you are wrong, you're going to have no productive discussion here. You're just arguing with the most experienced cultivator on the board, and making yourself look stupid.


--------------------
Raadt

-- The information I provide is only information from readings, growing of gourmet mushrooms, and second hand stories--


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Offlineneophyteshroomer
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Re: Quickly! [Re: Raadt]
    #2015544 - 10/16/03 07:05 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

well i know one buy at a health food store, the other at a home imporvement store! ITS GRASSS you dopnt fucking eat grass do you?


--------------------
Make Sure You Bring A Towel!!!
.....
..... You wanna get high?


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Offlinedoctor_grape
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Registered: 10/16/03
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Re: Quickly! [Re: neophyteshroomer]
    #2015978 - 10/16/03 09:09 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

man give up, sounds like you messed up.


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InvisibleDanKnugget
Mysterious Traveller
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Registered: 07/15/03
Posts: 1,074
Loc: On a boat
Re: Quickly! [Re: doctor_grape]
    #2019564 - 10/18/03 02:11 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

haha, even the new guy sees that you messed up. i think this thread should probably be closed, as it has been proven that anno was correct, and the question was answered. that was the most "advanced" flame war i ever read, congrats to you guys! :grin:


--------------------
My 3 proverbs:
1. School is for people who don't know stuff.
2. Jobs are for losers.
3. Reading is for people with nothing better to do.


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Invisibledoktor_alternate
card-carryingAmateurMycologistsAnonymous member
Registered: 08/24/03
Posts: 119
Loc: vancouver
doctor_this, doktor_that. getcherownfuckinghandle! [Re: DanKnugget]
    #2020627 - 10/18/03 03:49 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

hahahahahahaha(snort)
yo grape: quit steppin' on my handle!  :mad2:

dont make me come over there! :evil: 


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Re: doctor_this, doktor_that. getcherownfuckinghandle! [Re: doktor_alternate]
    #2020630 - 10/18/03 03:51 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

you're both posuers ^^^


--------------------
peace, pot, and microdot!


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Invisibledoktor_alternate
card-carryingAmateurMycologistsAnonymous member
Registered: 08/24/03
Posts: 119
Loc: vancouver
back off, punk! [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2020643 - 10/18/03 03:56 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

you gonna start arguing too?


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Amazon Shop for: ½ Pint Jars, Rye Grain

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