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Invisiblemikey
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salvia
    #2009645 - 10/14/03 10:51 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

what is the best way to take care of a plant you have received through the mail in the first few weeks


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Offlineneuro
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Re: salvia [Re: mikey]
    #2009682 - 10/14/03 11:03 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

From the EG FAQ

I got my salvia cutting now what?

Salvia cuttings are best rooted in plain water or water with some rooting hormone in it. The lowest most leaf node should be exposed and if it isn’t, crack off the leaves on those nodes and scrape the node with your nail, submerge the cutting in the water up to and covering the leaf node. The roots will sprout from there.

After several days root buds should appear, after there is a sufficient amount of root mass, plant in your favorite aerated soil.


What conditions does my salvia like?

- Indirect sunlight

- High RH between 70 – 95% is optimal: Can be grown at lower humidity with acclimatization.

- Acidic or Neutral Soil.

- Miracid is a good feeder.

- Use large pots, with lots of space for the roots.



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Re: salvia [Re: neuro]
    #2010709 - 10/15/03 05:49 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Salvia cuttings are best rooted in plain water or water with some rooting hormone in it.




Nah, the FAQ is wrong. That's not how cutting propagation is done in the real production hort world which sees in no end of genera sold at garden centers.

Always strike in media, (unless the continued culture is a medialess system).

Striking in water means root shock/damage when put to media. In addition, IBA/NAA isn't necessary to strike S.divinorum. They'll throw adventitious roots as is, they progagate naturally by soil layering. I've tried with rooting hormone and without and there's no difference in strike on healthy stock cuttings.

If you get cuttings in the mail wrapped in damp newspaper and the like, set to media. Don't stress them further with the ineffectual water in a glass thing. Doing sally in water won't thump as fast as media. Tried it.

Quote:

The lowest most leaf node should be exposed and if it isn’t, crack off the leaves on those nodes and scrape the node with your nail, submerge the cutting in the water up to and covering the leaf node. The roots will sprout from there




Wrong again, S.divinorum will strike on internode, same as it will on Hedera, Monsteria and Devils Ivy. That's good news as you can bang out more cuttings on less plant material.

The other part in the FAQ eluding to "air bubble" in the vascular system so you cut under water blah-de-blah, waste of time. Consult gardening books IMO on propagation or a hort college/institute to get the real deal.

In general cutting work, if you've had cuttings docked for 10 minutes plus, just dock off the bottom 5mm to 1cm (use rooting hormone if you need to) then put to media and you won't get the over-rated "air-bubble" tale. Yeah, ok if you have 1 or 2 cuttings to do so you can fart about with under the water games but doing 50+ cuttings bawwaahhhaaaaa.

It should be noted that most soft and in leaf, field cuttings, taken in the hort industry, are done so early morning when transpiration is low and put into a plastic bag with a sprinkling of water and then taken to the glasshouse. There they simply dock off the bottom 5mm to 10mm on the sprigs, dip in rooting hormone and set to media, usually 1 coarse sand, 1 peat and 1 perlite banged out into hundreds of pots with a fogger turned on in a greenhouse so it's 95%+ R/H. Once adventitious roots form, a media and foliage wetting with an electric geyer sprayer delivering nutrients is employed. Cheap on staff rates to do and foliar feeds work in high R/H as stomata is wide open to allow ions entry. Once well rooted, they're potted up individually to tubes.

Note, foliar feeding is done in production hort period. In hardstand set ups, they kick off the irrigation so it raises the ambient humidity and then some under 18yo on kiddie wages sprays 'em, coz it's cheap and it works.

Take a wander up to your local botanical gardens and ask the staff how they do it and if you're nice they'll even give you a tour of their facilities, you'll see what I'm talking about. :smile:
   


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Invisiblemikey
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Re: salvia [Re: Starter]
    #2010812 - 10/15/03 07:05 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

thanks for all the info but they were live plants not cutting hehe


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Re: salvia [Re: mikey]
    #2010823 - 10/15/03 07:19 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

You got them already rooted, that's cool. So get them going and propagate cuttings off them to increase your numbers.


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Invisiblemikey
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Re: salvia [Re: Starter]
    #2010829 - 10/15/03 07:22 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

how do i keep the live ones alive where should i put them


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Invisiblemikey
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Re: salvia [Re: mikey]
    #2010830 - 10/15/03 07:23 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

how often should i water and how much water should i use or should im mist and should i put them with perlite to keep rh up?


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Re: salvia [Re: mikey]
    #2010837 - 10/15/03 07:29 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Ever grown ferns? Exactly the same cultural conditions. High humidity (so mist regular if it's dry your way). 1/2 strength nutes. Filtered light. Well draining media but keep media moist at least until they get going. Tap water is fine (well mine is). Best too in larger pots as they have a large root mass. So pot them up into 10lt pots at the start. They don't like frost, but mature plants with a big root mass in pots will surive -6C winters if under the eves out of the frost line.


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Invisiblemikey
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Re: salvia [Re: Starter]
    #2010840 - 10/15/03 07:30 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

what kinda ferts 20-20-20 filtered light what do you mean


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Re: salvia [Re: mikey]
    #2010850 - 10/15/03 07:42 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Get some premium potting mix (not the cheap stuff) and that will do as the media. Ferts, I suggest you use fish emulsion at half strength. You won't burn them on that. It's an easy fert to use.

Filtered light, basically day light that comes through a window (not direct sun light) or shade on the side of a house, same conditions as rhody and azalea or if there is sun coming in through a window, a set of blinds to reduce the sun glare. I guess you're in the northern hemisphere, if so, then you want north facing position...the position the sun doesn't hit up there.

Have you ever grown ferns or shade loving plants like camelia japonica or helleborus orientalis? Same deal. Sally is an easy plant to grow. Does well as a house plant provided the house is not too dry, that's usually what screws most house plants too. So keep it misted and if that fails, buy a plastic zipper tent for it. They sell at the garden center.


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Invisiblemikey
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Re: salvia [Re: Starter]
    #2010865 - 10/15/03 07:55 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

k thanks alot


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Offlineneuro
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Re: salvia [Re: Starter]
    #2011073 - 10/15/03 11:43 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

>>Nah, the FAQ is wrong. That's not how cutting propagation is done in the real production hort world which sees in no end of genera sold at garden centers.

This is indoors basement/kitchen horticulture.

>>Always strike in media, (unless the continued culture is a medialess system).

This isn't always true... Salvia I've found experiences no difference between rooting in water with air stones/hormones anything or media with some hormone. Plain medium i've found has the worst shock period. In commercial practices where i've was interned years ago we did not always stick cuttings in medium.

>>If you get cuttings in the mail wrapped in damp newspaper and the like, set to media. Don't stress them further with the ineffectual water in a glass thing. Doing sally in water won't thump as fast as media. Tried it.

I send my cuttings wrapped in paper towels or in Rose vials. No problems. Though 'd agree on the newspaper. Newspaper wrapped cuttings should not be exposed to water. They die off quick from disease.


>>Wrong again, S.divinorum will strike on internode, same as it will on Hedera, Monsteria and Devils Ivy. That's good news as you can bang out more cuttings on less plant material.

Salvia_E and I were aware of adventitious budding/rooting of Salvia being quite strong, but we're not writing a FAQ for experienced growers obviously, otherwise there would be no reason to have a FAQ.  The method described above is as generic as it gets and can be applied to many herbs.


>>Consult gardening books IMO on propagation or a hort college/institute to get the real deal.

This is how i did it in college. There is no real reason to cutting it under a bucket of water other than to prevent vapor lock and plasmolyzing.


>>Yeah, ok if you have 1 or 2 cuttings to do so you can fart about with under the water games but doing 50+ cuttings bawwaahhhaaaaa

Who besides you are doing 50+ cuttings. Once again we're speaking for the average propagator of salvia, not the hydroponics cartel.

>>It should be noted that most soft and in leaf, field cuttings, taken in the hort industry, are done so early morning when transpiration is low and put into a plastic bag with a sprinkling of water and then taken to the glasshouse.

Once again, we're writing this FAQ for the average clandestine operator. None of these users here i'd venture to say are running any sort of large scale operation.

Nobody here is in the cultivation industry, they're doing a few plants in their homes. The methods outlined in the FAQ are experience collaborated from various sources and Salvia_England has reduced them down and included many of his own methods for propagation and care for the plants. If you'll do a search for Salvia_England's posts with his Salvia and hundreds of other pictures he's posted one will see he's quite experienced with the methods he's outlined for the Salvia portion of the FAQ.

I can't stress enough that the FAQ was not written as a professional guide, if it were I would have written it myself and published it hardbound and sold it at Amazon.  The methods that are outlined in the FAQ are written as an easy-enough with best results possible such that anyone can do them with even the most limited of resources.

We can't all have expensive hydroponics systems  :wink:


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Re: salvia [Re: neuro]
    #2011400 - 10/15/03 03:44 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

>>>This is indoors basement/kitchen horticulture.

That perception makes it sound mysteriously hard. There's no spin needed. You see, much of the drama folks suffer is a lack of basic hort by lack of practice in licit growing. If they did they'd be cheering on all their favs. Gardening is gardening and open to all.


>>>This isn't always true... Salvia I've found experiences no difference between rooting in water with air stones/hormones anything or media with some hormone. Plain medium i've found has the worst shock period. In commercial practices where i've was interned years ago we did not always stick cuttings in medium.

Yet you end up planting to media, so why the time invested in an unnecessary step? Unless they're needed as water cuttings to furnish medialess aeroponics and collared NFT channels for those hydroponics cartels?


>>>I send my cuttings wrapped in paper towels or in Rose vials. No problems. Though 'd agree on the newspaper. Newspaper wrapped cuttings should not be exposed to water. They die off quick from disease.

Use sphagnum moss to wrap cuttings, it reduces disease in transit. They arrive in more health.


>>>Salvia_E and I were aware of adventitious budding/rooting of Salvia being quite strong, but we're not writing a FAQ for experienced growers obviously, otherwise there would be no reason to have a FAQ. The method described above is as generic as it gets and can be applied to many herbs.

Sure the method given is generic and can be applied to many herbs, but salvia allows internode cuttings so people can get more mileage out of their lanky stock plants which do well with a good hack down...if they knew.


>>>This is how i did it in college. There is no real reason to cutting it under a bucket of water other than to prevent vapor lock and plasmolyzing.

It's going to media, again why the extra step? A step that can see mechanical damage on newly formed roots when transplanted to media by the novice. Direct to media is quick, easy and effective. Just what the newbie needs.


>>>Who besides you are doing 50+ cuttings. Once again we're speaking for the average propagator of salvia, not the hydroponics cartel.

I'll do 50+ cuttings on licit genera i.e. lavender for low water use feature bed planting or buxus for a parterre border or photinia for a boundary hedge. I see nothing cartel in that. Point is, taking 50+ is common on legal genera and many ordinary folks do. Do you?


>>>Once again, we're writing this FAQ for the average clandestine operator. None of these users here i'd venture to say are running any sort of large scale operation.

Given sally is still legal in the US and most folks on the shroomery are from the states, then why do you perceive it as clandestine and venture too that they don't grow large scale? You mean to tell me a licit gardened yard that holds hundreds of plants of dozens of genera from rhizome divided iris to asexual media striked choisia (to make a hedge) doesn't qualify?

Gardening is gardening, clandestine or not. Just keep it simple, it works. 

Thanks for your time. :smile: 


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Re: salvia [Re: Starter]
    #2012335 - 10/15/03 08:16 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

if you want lots of growth shoots, increase the lighting the plant gets,such as a unabstructed south facing window. for larger leaves decrease light, like under your ficus or north side window.

sally isn't that hard to care for with some practice, cut a 2L soda bottle in half for a cheap tent to add humidity for the first few days/week slowly giving her less an' less time. she'll get real lanky before you have to fertilize, which you shouldn't worry about for awhile w/ a good soil.

as for starter's striking method.....goin' right to soil may work for you and cuttings w/out nodes suck, but the best results my phonicx monkey has seen is; to let her root in water 'till ya see 1/4" roots then go into media. unless you have tons of time to watch over her or a neat-o hydro sys??




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Invisiblemikey
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Re: salvia [Re: Suby]
    #2012663 - 10/15/03 09:51 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

so basically if i put a 2 liter over em in northern or southern window theyll be fine but how many time do i msit water a day?


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Re: salvia [Re: mikey]
    #2014103 - 10/16/03 11:30 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

>>>if you want lots of growth shoots, increase the lighting the plant gets,such as a unabstructed south facing window. for larger leaves decrease light, like under your ficus or north side window.

I assume you've directed this at me? Is so, well yes, if you're in the northern hemisphere.

And as for light, yes I'm aware of what sally will do under HID, fluro, indoors-ambient-daylight and full outdoors too -- the latter I prefer if I can get away with it. Aussie sun my way however is an instant no-no. The intensity will crucify it, even winter sun is too strong as foliage bleaches.


>>>sally isn't that hard to care for with some practice, cut a 2L soda bottle in half for a cheap tent to add humidity for the first few days/week slowly giving her less an' less time. she'll get real lanky before you have to fertilize, which you shouldn't worry about for awhile w/ a good soil.

2lt soft drink bottles are common for use as "on-bed-terrariums" for cutting/seedling raising in a semi-shaded aspect. Though sally will quickly out grow a half 2lt bottle. While a $15 AUD zipper tent at a garden center will see it through to full size with room for another five x 10lt potted specimens. Many houses are often too dry, esp. with winter heating. Conversely in summer with air-cond. AUD is about 69 cents USD.


>>>as for starter's striking method.....goin' right to soil may work for you

It works on general basic gardening and this point was obviously missed.


>>>and cuttings w/out nodes suck,

Excuse me, I have currently (on count) 54 sally cuttings, most are internode strikes in media and all retaining turgidity, as per made a week ago with no IBA/NAA. I will have my digital back (I hope) at the end of this month and I will upload some pics.


>>>but the best results my phonicx monkey has seen is; to let her root in water 'till ya see 1/4" roots then go into media. unless you have tons of time to watch over her or a neat-o hydro sys??

Hydro is cheap to even free to set up and only ignorance would suggest otherwise. For example, passive hydro has no moving/electrical parts. Do some research.

Besides, standard media gardening entailing cutting propagation is even managed by dotty old grannies who pot up what they have in cat food cans with a few holes in the bottom and away they go, be it cuttings of hydrangea, japanese wind anemone, dahlia, antirrhinum ect. Some of these old ducks even subsidise their pension selling them. I'm not here to obfuscate, merely keep it simple.

If you like to initiate your cuttings in water and only with nodes, all the more power to you.



Good going with your project Mikey. You won't need to mist in a terrarium, it will have enough ambient R/H from the evaprotranspiration.


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Invisiblemikey
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Re: salvia [Re: Starter]
    #2014922 - 10/16/03 04:24 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

so how mayn times should i water a week and should i put it in south or northern window and should 2 liter have holes in it?


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Re: salvia [Re: Starter]
    #2015173 - 10/16/03 05:28 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

>>>This is indoors basement/kitchen horticulture.

That perception makes it sound mysteriously hard. There's no spin needed. You see, much of the drama folks suffer is a lack of basic hort by lack of practice in licit growing. If they did they'd be cheering on all their favs. Gardening is gardening and open to all.





Clandestine is not meant to be mean hard or mysterious, the word's meaning involves secrecy and small scale. My usage in this sense means more small than secret though a few here keep it secret too.
Many people here just use what they got, do a search for the word coke bottle and you'll see.

>>Yet you end up planting to media, so why the time invested in an unnecessary step?

I don't get involved in this extra step. For rooting cuttings i usually just dip and stick(in flats) in a dry medium and place them under periodic misters. Occasionally i use water to root cuttings. The FAQ was written to include water striking instead of direct media transfer because this is how most are used to seeing it on the internet. It's a general consensus so to speak. Plus many who are growing salvia are not that knowledgable about plant science and general horitcultural practices, so allowing them to see the roots strike and planting them with roots -(which then requires some care but isn't that hard to do at all to avoid damaging the new roots on sticking) - allows them to see the process and learn a thing or two.


>>Use sphagnum moss to wrap cuttings, it reduces disease in transit. They arrive in more health.

I would think it would weigh more costing more money in shipping. If it doesn't then i'd consider it. But wrapping them in damp paper towels hasn't failed yet, my cuttings arrive in impecable health so i've been told.


>>Sure the method given is generic and can be applied to many herbs, but salvia allows internode cuttings so people can get more mileage out of their lanky stock plants which do well with a good hack down...if they knew.

Have you seen the amount of posts on this board regarding salvia? Some people need all the help they can get when they're trying to root cuttings, and would be weary of using smaller cuttings. I suggest for the new grower to use a meaty sized cutting to try to root.


>>It's going to media, again why the extra step? A step that can see mechanical damage on newly formed roots when transplanted to media by the novice. Direct to media is quick, easy and effective. Just what the newbie needs.

The water rooting method is preferred, it might be a step extra or two, but atleast the novice grower knows that there's roots and they can see and learn, and once again this is the consensus they'll find ont he net. I stick my salvia 70% of the time, other times i just drop in water, both are effective and one involves and extra step. It's not that hard to be delicate with a bareroot plant.

Making a cutting under water is only effective if you're gonna root it in water too.


>>I'll do 50+ cuttings on licit genera i.e. lavender for low water use feature bed planting or buxus for a parterre border or photinia for a boundary hedge. I see nothing cartel in that. Point is, taking 50+ is common on legal genera and many ordinary folks do. Do you?

I do not take 50+ cuttings of any one genera and certainly do not take or care for 50+ cuttings at a time of a mix of species. And i bet 99% here too do not routine if ever have managed more than 20 cutings at a time and that's probably pushing it for the majority of that percentage. When i'm managing my herb garden i'll take cuttings for safe keeping of the winter, but never do I have 50 at a time, whatever i don't need i give away or compost.

I've come to find out last night that a few vendors root their salvia cuttings in perlite 50 at a time.


>>Given sally is still legal in the US and most folks on the shroomery are from the states, then why do you perceive it as clandestine and venture too that they don't grow large scale? You mean to tell me a licit gardened yard that holds hundreds of plants of dozens of genera from rhizome divided iris to asexual media striked choisia (to make a hedge) doesn't qualify?

Yes this is gardening, and again see my comments on clandestine. I challenge you to find out what the posters of this BB are growing. It's small scale. You are the first person i've seen come here and grow that much salvia with so much machinery. Most here have a few salvia plants usually no more than 10 at the absolute most if even 5. Gardening is Gardening but how many here are actual avid gardeners or landscapers? Most here started off growing only entheogens and then their interests spread. The FAQ is intended for someone who asks the usual questions and thus isn't as familiarized with horticulture and probably doesn't grow or hasn't ever grown anything except their new salvia. You're making some assumptions that everyone here all maintain outdoor gardens and make their own hedges or juniper ground covers or keeps a nursery stock of plants when they don't.

The information in the FAQ works for those who are not in the know, once they have that down and are so inclined they can learn other stuff and leave the FAQ behind, and i hope they do. The information in the FAQ seems to be the best approach to showing those are do not know the intracacies of horticulture and perhaps have no experience what so ever.


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Re: salvia [Re: neuro]
    #2015388 - 10/16/03 06:19 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Do any of you have tips on ways to make your rooted cuttings less susceptible to shock before you ship them?


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Re: salvia [Re: neuro]
    #2017040 - 10/17/03 04:27 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

>>>Have you seen the amount of posts on this board regarding salvia? Some people need all the help they can get when they're trying to root cuttings, and would be weary of using smaller cuttings. I suggest for the new grower to use a meaty sized cutting to try to root.

So the FAQ isn't working? :smirk:


>>>You are the first person i've seen come here and grow that much salvia with so much machinery.

What, a single shown crate with sally cuttings, gimme a break.


Quote:

mr_minds_eye said:
Do any of you have tips on ways to make your rooted cuttings less susceptible to shock before you ship them? 




Give me 24 more hours so I can get another 400 kb's and I will, in theme to "neuro's clandestine, secret & small scale wishes", give just a solution. I'll make a thread this time tomorrow. It will lend to many genera (inc. sally) to send rooted, without root shock, can be kicked like a football in finished item & arrive in perfect state. :smile:
 


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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics >> The Ethnobotanical Garden

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World Seed Supply
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