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elasticaltiger
Like Tigers in Coitus




Registered: 06/24/13
Posts: 8,404
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Re: The Official "Grow Kits Suck" Thread [Re: cronicr]
#20023309 - 05/22/14 02:01 AM (9 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
cronicr said:
Quote:
beforeIgetold said:
I get it… some of you take pride in doing something like this yourself… but you have to understand others may not find this pride, but that does NOT disqualify them from asking for help that is not related to the way you are doing it.
It's like if someone is asking for help learning to write, and you scold them for wanting to write with the left hand instead of the right, or write with a magic marker instead of a pencil.
i don't think you understand whats really happening though, i'm here everyday and never see anybody get flamed for there kits, just the subjecct gets jumped at but everysingle one gets help one way or another, you probably didn't read much of this thread but the biggest issues that come to play from people posting kit problems is the instructions always suck and vendors hype them up as much as they can, people always will point out why doing it yourself is better because nobody is gonna make you a kit at cost but by no means have i ever not helped anybody just because it's a kit
 People with grow kits do get help here. The problems that continually show up are poor instructions (oven tek anyone?) or customers being sold oyster mushrooms instead of cubensis. The thing is if you're ordering a grow kit online you REALLY DON'T KNOW what you're getting.
Plus a lot of those grow kits DO start from scratch with the exception that they include pre sterilized jars.
-------------------- First time growing cakes? DON'T make a Shotgun Fruiting Chamber The Shmuvbox. - The Old TC's Like it Afraid to Start Growing From Your Own Prints? Drop it Like a Tiger! No Pouring. No Syringes. No Cutting. No flaming. No Contamination. No Bullshit. "The best thing to do while your waiting is to start more stuff. I usually got so much happening that I have tossed projects simply because I didn't have time for them. -Pastywhite QFT Pastywhite's Easy Agar Tek (PastyPlates) Tiger Drop Video Demos By munchauzen Van Gogh would’ve sold more than one painting if he’d put tigers in them.―Bill Watterson EZEKIEL 23:20
Edited by elasticaltiger (05/22/14 02:01 AM)
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2bittoker
Resident PMP Advocate


Registered: 03/09/13
Posts: 555
Last seen: 2 years, 4 months
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Re: The Official "Grow Kits Suck" Thread [Re: beforeIgetold]
#20023615 - 05/22/14 06:08 AM (9 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
beforeIgetold said: And still we have to moderate all of you who are dogmatised around diy is better than anything.
My first grow was a mexi cube kit and it actually gave me 10g dry on my first flush.
Several things come into account when talking about growing shrooms. Some don't have time or don't want to spend time doing it from the bottom up. Myself… I really really really can't be bothered about doing it from the bottom. Now since I don't see growing shrooms as a religion or something holy that is not to be tampered with, I don't really care how much a flush gives as long as it gives enough for that 6 monthly trip. Money…. bleh, 40 euros here and there every six months… who cares??
Anyways… you can take one of those easier to grow grow kits and mix it up with the SGFC setup and have decent results. You don't NEED to go by the books, so stop preaching… tripping is nothing but chemical alteration anyways, for my part "set" has NOTHING to at all with the growing part. Growing is just a necessary step towards getting the tools needed for the introspective voyage. (actually… mostly just because growing yourself is easier than buying when Libs are out of season)
But what would really make this forum shine is more tolerance and issuing help to those who find themselves in a place with kits are easierly approachable than doing everything from the bottom. I mean… isn't that why you are trip in the first place? To enforce compassion and be kinder to others? Don't flame others for their choice… it really shouldn't be that hard, and be the better man that can offer solutions or just suggestions based on the premise of the person asking for help. out of the box that you are trapped in.
I get it… some of you take pride in doing something like this yourself… but you have to understand others may not find this pride, but that does NOT disqualify them from asking for help that is not related to the way you are doing it.
It's like if someone is asking for help learning to write, and you scold them for wanting to write with the left hand instead of the right, or write with a magic marker instead of a pencil.
Bad analogy. Using a grow kit is like using a speech to text interrupter to write instead of learning to write. Giving a man fish vs teaching him how to fish. You are being chained to the dependency of the knowledge of others. You aren't learning ANYTHING. You're being a consumer, which you know how to do from birth.
Here's the thing, if grow kits worked, you wouldn't HAVE to ask for help, because the instructions and method of operation would be clear. If you buy a bookshelf, you don't need to go on bookshelf forums and ask people if they know X about bookshelves, the instructions tell you how
By using premade kits and using them with a SGFC, all you are doing is asking someone else to prepare your substrate and pressure cook it for you. THATS ALL. And you are paying 10X more for each run than I do for raw materials. I can get 10 grams dried off 2 cakes with good genetics.
If you use a grow kit, you are asking people on to research the method you selected to figure out your problem, rather than using mycological standards established on these forums.
You're right, nothing is set. You can grow mushrooms in an aquarium too with no FAE. In fact, 40 years ago, that was common in mycology. But just because you can do something, doesn't mean its the best way to do it.
-------------------- “I slept and dreamt that life was joy. I awoke and saw that life was service. I acted and behold, service was joy.” "Love does not claim possession, but gives freedom" ― Rabindranath Tagore Stuff for New Growers Where new growers should start: RogerRabbit's PF Tek video How it Should and Shouldn't Look My Simplified Bulk Growing My OJ Shroom Tek
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Aero
Orea


Registered: 11/01/13
Posts: 2,253
Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
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Re: The Official "Grow Kits Suck" Thread [Re: 2bittoker]
#20023637 - 05/22/14 06:18 AM (9 years, 8 months ago) |
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funny thing my friend ordered 4 of these kits he got around 30g dry on average/kit
what u notice is that its a 1liter box, with 900ml grain spawn in it, sometimes they put a layer of perlite at the bottom as water retention.
u only have to soak it, as you all probably know soaking grain spawn helps a lot in fruition.
instead of saying its shit and expensive try to look behind your own thoughts, and think.
1liter box gives u 30g, takes small place and easy to work with, energy efficient to make for yourself at home, not much material needed, what u have to do is dunk it after every each flush
i remember the Violet thread about using space economically with the highest yield possible, this is pretty much the same concept. so all of you booing that its shit and expensive, try to think out of your narrow minded box and see what is exatly the concept behind these kits,
u can make it for yourself
here is the one i did
yielded 40g dry, 700ml spawn

-------------------- SPREAD THE SPORES
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concrete_666
fungus among us


Registered: 04/14/14
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Re: The Official "Grow Kits Suck" Thread [Re: Aero]
#20023673 - 05/22/14 06:39 AM (9 years, 8 months ago) |
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I get 5g dry a cake and i use a grow kit. But ive also done my research (although still ALOT MORE to learn) and just m&f a couple times a day, a few times if i can, and let it do its thing. Granted different kit, and i now buy my own supplies, but i use the same set up for my room conditions, but the kits will do theyre job if your not an idiot.
-------------------- Which came first, the chicken or the egg? If heaven was perfect, how was there a fallen Angel, before sin?
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,811
Loc: Canada
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Re: The Official "Grow Kits Suck" Thread [Re: Aero]
#20023685 - 05/22/14 06:47 AM (9 years, 8 months ago) |
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No one has a problem with the "concept", its basicly a tray that don't come with a proper fruiting chamber. What they are trashing is the poor preperation, and pointless modifycations like perlite in the bottom, which is not a water reservoir, hence why we use it to humidify the SGFC. The ones that do come with a FC are no better as its usually a box with an air pump and don't work worth shit. Most of the time people end up modifying the thing into a SGFC which means they still had to learn something and do some work 
If someone wants to pay $100 for what should be a $5-$10 tray that may be contamed then fine. But its the same logic as paying an extra $20000 for a car with no steering wheel. Kits might not be so bad if there was at least some measure of quality control and real instructions. But there isn't so they suck
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Spiritwalker_Faust
Hominid



Registered: 02/13/14
Posts: 879
Loc: In the Sky
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Re: The Official "Grow Kits Suck" Thread [Re: Pastywhyte]
#20024128 - 05/22/14 09:20 AM (9 years, 8 months ago) |
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The problem with kits are the limitation in how much the Shroomery can help. Using a premade kit it's hard to rule out where the problems occur when it comes with pre-colonized substrate and perlite on the bottom. The instructions are poorly made and hardly work, in the kit I ordered it specified that yellowing or graying in the colonizing jars is just aging mycelium and wasn't going to harm the growing process. I got flamed my first post for buying a grow kit and i'm glad I was. I'd say the best thing from the kit was the premade jars and that's only if you don't have the space to make them yourselves.
Another thing, they're big ripoffs. 250$ for the Super Mega Kit (Not the real name, it does exaggerate though)It includes a HEPA air filtration/humidifier, state of the art incubation chamber with filtering pockets, gloves, masks, hairnet, and premade jars with the BONUS "top secret tips and tricks only used by professional mushroom growers!" (actual words)
1 Tupperware 14 gallon tub with a strip of micropore tape 8$ 1 Aquarium air pump with a mason jar with oxygen stones 15$ Gloves, masks, hairnet 10$ 20 Premade jars 30$
Edited by Spiritwalker_Faust (05/22/14 09:31 AM)
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concrete_666
fungus among us


Registered: 04/14/14
Posts: 654
Loc: the land of the free
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
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im not nockin anyones methods, but my pictures dont lie, obviously kits do work, yea you still mist and fan but , for the most part its head ache free, so if it was a head ache, then maybe some one was thinkn to much, because iv had NO problems. Now im not sayin the sgfc is a bad gig, obviously it works, but maybe some cant dedicate certain amounts of time, or some are just lazy, either way everyone has the same objective, ....grow mushrooms.
-------------------- Which came first, the chicken or the egg? If heaven was perfect, how was there a fallen Angel, before sin?
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cr0sis
Stranger

Registered: 05/16/14
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Re: The Official "Grow Kits Suck" Thread [Re: concrete_666]
#20025344 - 05/22/14 02:46 PM (9 years, 8 months ago) |
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I almost bought a grow kit, but I run a business and have extensive research skills because of it.
I'm really, really glad I found this place because the ratio of problems with grow kits to problems with growing DIY doesn't really stack in favour of the grow kit. Not good.
Just an hour was all it took to convince me, and I can't recommend DIY more. It cost me much less and I'm having a blast learning, instead of watching a box I could only ever have the smallest amount of faith in tease me for weeks!
All your eggs in one basket springs to mind. Pf tek allows a fail or two without a potential total yield loss, too (unless you got a bad sterile technique, but at least you'd know it was your fault.)
Edited by cr0sis (05/22/14 02:47 PM)
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SpitballJedi
Ancient Astronaut



Registered: 10/13/12
Posts: 8,598
Loc: Nibiru
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Re: The Official "Grow Kits Suck" Thread [Re: cr0sis]
#20025618 - 05/22/14 03:45 PM (9 years, 8 months ago) |
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I'm curious as to what grow kits you defenders are using with such great success.
-------------------- The Basics A little civility goes a long way The Noob Forum The Hammock Hangers' Forum
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elasticaltiger
Like Tigers in Coitus




Registered: 06/24/13
Posts: 8,404
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Re: The Official "Grow Kits Suck" Thread [Re: SpitballJedi]
#20025632 - 05/22/14 03:48 PM (9 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
SpitballJedi said: I'm curious as to what grow kits you defenders are using with such great success.
They're probably talking about the ones you can get in the Netherlands and other European countries. You can buy kits there that are pre colonized. The seller can make sure that there is no (visible) contamination so the customer get's the satisfaction and experience of misting and fanning.
-------------------- First time growing cakes? DON'T make a Shotgun Fruiting Chamber The Shmuvbox. - The Old TC's Like it Afraid to Start Growing From Your Own Prints? Drop it Like a Tiger! No Pouring. No Syringes. No Cutting. No flaming. No Contamination. No Bullshit. "The best thing to do while your waiting is to start more stuff. I usually got so much happening that I have tossed projects simply because I didn't have time for them. -Pastywhite QFT Pastywhite's Easy Agar Tek (PastyPlates) Tiger Drop Video Demos By munchauzen Van Gogh would’ve sold more than one painting if he’d put tigers in them.―Bill Watterson EZEKIEL 23:20
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Mdahmer
Aloysius devadander abercrombie



Registered: 04/05/14
Posts: 2,516
Last seen: 6 years, 6 months
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Re: The Official "Grow Kits Suck" Thread [Re: elasticaltiger]
#20025685 - 05/22/14 03:59 PM (9 years, 8 months ago) |
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I love the entire process I get no headache from any of it but I'm a do it myself kind of dude, I make my own knives, flint knapping, moonshine, herb, meth a few times I've hunted with a sling and with a knife...it's the act of creating something from random materials I find so fascinating with this hobby. I think if you kit folks actually went for it and had a successful grow you would never turn back from the immense pride you get doing something on your own, maybe that's just my old fashion-ness talking though. It is the age of micro chips and ti-tanium after all as immortal technique will tell you
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concrete_666
fungus among us


Registered: 04/14/14
Posts: 654
Loc: the land of the free
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
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Re: The Official "Grow Kits Suck" Thread [Re: Mdahmer]
#20026037 - 05/22/14 05:21 PM (9 years, 8 months ago) |
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No pre colonized kits for me. Pf jars like everyone else, just follow the pf tek as normal except its not as detrimental if you forget to m&f. But you do still have to m&f. I only have 3 small g.e. holes in chamber, i run multiple fc off my setup, and im pullin 5g dry,like normal, except i have a lil more room for MY LIFE. 20 1/2 pints =bout 5 oz or more dry after 2 flushes
-------------------- Which came first, the chicken or the egg? If heaven was perfect, how was there a fallen Angel, before sin?
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,811
Loc: Canada
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Re: The Official "Grow Kits Suck" Thread [Re: concrete_666]
#20026361 - 05/22/14 06:31 PM (9 years, 8 months ago) |
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Ya want room/time for your life? Its called a monotub. Set and forget. Most mini mono setups will pull a qp to half pound easy and are 10"x20". I use the spare time monos give me to work on cultures, edibles, exotics and more monos but you could just watch tv if ya wanted.
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tripdawg420
low life with no life



Registered: 02/02/09
Posts: 7,071
Loc: illinois
Last seen: 17 hours, 58 minutes
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Re: The Official "Grow Kits Suck" Thread [Re: SpitballJedi]
#20026421 - 05/22/14 06:44 PM (9 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
SpitballJedi said: I'm curious as to what grow kits you defenders are using with such great success.
the homestead kit works
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SpitballJedi
Ancient Astronaut



Registered: 10/13/12
Posts: 8,598
Loc: Nibiru
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Re: The Official "Grow Kits Suck" Thread [Re: tripdawg420]
#20027045 - 05/22/14 09:09 PM (9 years, 8 months ago) |
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Is that what you use?
http://www.homesteadbook.com/store/ez-gro-mushroomkit-p-141.html
$130? I bet you can get better results and continue multiple grows for a 3rd the money with a little research. With that kit, you learn nothing and have to spend $130 every time you want to grow.
Includes P.Cubensis spores, grains, and substrate? Sounds illegal in U.S.
If you start an "Official Grow Kits Are Good" thread, I will be happy to put a link in my signature. My first post will be " Grow kits are good for people who just want a little drugs one time and don't have the inclination to learn anything. They are fine if you have extra money to throw around."
But, this is a "sucks" thread.
-------------------- The Basics A little civility goes a long way The Noob Forum The Hammock Hangers' Forum
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tripdawg420
low life with no life



Registered: 02/02/09
Posts: 7,071
Loc: illinois
Last seen: 17 hours, 58 minutes
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Re: The Official "Grow Kits Suck" Thread [Re: SpitballJedi]
#20027289 - 05/22/14 10:01 PM (9 years, 8 months ago) |
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ya kits suck but when i first started growing mushrooms and never heard of shroomery i used that kit damn they where 85 when i use to get them back in like 05 but thats one i can say will grow shrooms but you asked a kit that works
Edited by tripdawg420 (05/22/14 10:11 PM)
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Aero
Orea


Registered: 11/01/13
Posts: 2,253
Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
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Re: The Official "Grow Kits Suck" Thread [Re: elasticaltiger]
#20034772 - 05/24/14 02:07 PM (9 years, 8 months ago) |
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yea im talking about the european ones they are colonized rye grains in a filter box u get the filter patch bag which is pretty much useless as an FC but if u get them on perlite in a box they work very well
http://azarius.net/smartshop/magic-mushrooms/grow-kits/ http://www.magic-mushrooms-shop.com/en/instant-grow-kits.html
-------------------- SPREAD THE SPORES
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BittrBuffalo
Deaconica

Registered: 05/19/13
Posts: 1,729
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Re: The Official "Grow Kits Suck" Thread [Re: elasticaltiger]
#20046802 - 05/27/14 12:37 PM (9 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
beforeIgetold said:
But what would really make this forum shine is more tolerance and issuing help to those who find themselves in a place with kits are easierly approachable than doing everything from the bottom. I mean… isn't that why you are trip in the first place? To enforce compassion and be kinder to others? Don't flame others for their choice… it really shouldn't be that hard, and be the better man that can offer solutions or just suggestions based on the premise of the person asking for help. out of the box that you are trapped in.

Quote:
elasticaltiger said:
They're probably talking about the ones you can get in the Netherlands and other European countries. You can buy kits there that are pre colonized. The seller can make sure that there is no (visible) contamination so the customer get's the satisfaction and experience of misting and fanning.
This is probably true.
beforeIgetold: Ok. I realize I've probably said this at one time or another, but I'll say it again. So the reason there's bad blood between most of us and grow kits is because most of us live in countries in which the cultivation of active spores is illegal. Due to that fact, there can be rather extreme consequences for cultivation, and freely discussing the topic means putting your ass on the line. As such, there's a relative lack of good information out there (except for the Shroomery, of course ) vs. complete bullshit. Growing non-active species isn't really that common of a hobby (though it is picking up in popularity) and it doesn't even occur to a lot of people that this is a thing that people do rather than just buying mushrooms at the store, and one could just find out the basic process of growing mushrooms and then apply that information to active species. Psychedelics tend to frighten people, as opposed to, say, pot. Most people who are inclined to consume think that mushrooms are "hard to find". So there's all this baggage to deal with. Grow kit peddlers prey on all of this.
Searching crap on the internet is still sort of suspect but it's not like your buying books at the bookstore (if you can find them) and is still somewhat anonymous-ish. It usually goes a little something like this: you go online and you search "growing shrooms" or something like that with teh Googles, and up pops Midwest Grow Kits or the like. So you say, "Hm, this seems like how people do this. Mushrooms are probably grown this way and it looks easy." So you click on the link and see what you're supposed to do to make it happen and it all makes sense if you know nothing about the process. So you shell out your money and buy your kit and buy your spores and it all comes in the mail and you set it up to get started. You start to realize that this looks cheap and something is wrong, and you start to suspect you got screwed. So you get on teh internets again and find the Shroomery and start looking around and all the while your suspicions are being confirmed, yet you hope that maybe this isn't the case. You try to make it work, but in the end, you find out that there was a better, cheaper way all along and you were had. That's why we all hate grow kits.
So, yeah, you're right in that it's unfair for us to rub salt in the wound and look down our noses at people who got tricked into buying grow kits. A decent number of us don't rub people's noses in it. The point of the thread is to try to warn people beforehand that there is a 90% chance that you're getting screwed, so don't buy them or return them if it's not too late. The only ones that I've seen that look viable are only available in places like the Netherlands in which it's legal to grow.
-------------------- Disclaimer: This post is a work of fiction, provided for entertainment purposes only. Any resemblance to actual persons or events, past or present, is strictly coincidental. All celebrity voices are impersonated. If you begin your ID request with, "I just ate a bunch of these mushrooms…should I not have done that?" I'm just gonna sit back and watch Darwin at work.
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SpitballJedi
Ancient Astronaut



Registered: 10/13/12
Posts: 8,598
Loc: Nibiru
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Re: The Official "Grow Kits Suck" Thread [Re: BittrBuffalo]
#20046831 - 05/27/14 12:46 PM (9 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
BittrBuffalo said: The point of the thread is to try to warn people beforehand that there is a 90% chance that you're getting screwed, so don't buy them or return them if it's not too late. The only ones that I've seen that look viable are only available in places like the Netherlands in which it's legal to grow.
-------------------- The Basics A little civility goes a long way The Noob Forum The Hammock Hangers' Forum
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beforeIgetold
Stranger

Registered: 10/10/13
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Re: The Official "Grow Kits Suck" Thread [Re: Aero]
#20093688 - 06/06/14 04:54 PM (9 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Aero said: yea im talking about the european ones they are colonized rye grains in a filter box u get the filter patch bag which is pretty much useless as an FC but if u get them on perlite in a box they work very well
http://azarius.net/smartshop/magic-mushrooms/grow-kits/ http://www.magic-mushrooms-shop.com/en/instant-grow-kits.html
Yep… actually one of the sponsors of this site… but I don't know where some of you get those prices from? I'm pretty much ok with paying 50 dollars for not having to mess around with sterility and so on. (I think a lot of times EU vs US people get mixed up because wages and therefore economies are different between the two countries, an average job over here is around 60k (about 38k in the hands after taxes) a year, so 50 isn't going to break my budget every 4-6 months)
I make stuff myself too… but I don't go around making everything I need or want myself.
I don't have a problem with people growing their own shrooms…. I have a problem with people growing their own shrooms belittling people who couldn't care or less or want it the easy way.
This little thing is a dutch kit… I'm fine with it. It will most likely give me what I need. I find it a nice compromise between what experienced shroomers want us to do and not doing very much. I agree… that box it comes in is terrible. The first time I tried them I had so high humidity in that box that I almost had more pins on the bottom and sides than on the top. So now I just take the cake out after the dunk and place it in my sgfc on top of the lid from the box. Makes it easier to lift the cake up and retrieve side pins etc.

So yes…. grow kits suck...not much. You can turn them around…
What I would recommend is not getting the hardest strains to grow if you can't give the cake what it needs. In my case I don't have the facilities to raise a group of PEs, so I went for mexi cubes again, and they are very forgiving.
Stale cellar room with no free flowing dry air.
65 degrees (18c) at dark time and 70 degrees (21c) at light time. From what I read those aren't exactly the optimal conditions. But hey, they are still peaking up.
3 times fanning on work days (before work / when you get home / before you go to bed) and 4-5 times during off days (same thing, just 2 more times between "work" and "home"). I fan out the room as well with something large, just to get some new air in.
Mist when the moisture is dropping (look for water droplets on the sides of the sgfc). Heck… I don't even have a humidity gauge and my thermometer is outside the sgfc just to give me a guestimation what the level of temp might be.
So if you don't want to cook, sterilize, inoculate, etc etc, just buy the damn kits, but from there on, do an sgfc, your cake will love you for it, or atleast, give you a little kiss on the cheek. Don't feel bad from all this scolding from religious shroomers.
As long as this is cheaper than buying them off the street (which is pretty damn impossible where I live in the first place), then it's money well spent.
Edited by beforeIgetold (06/06/14 05:09 PM)
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