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Offlineharken989
guider of minds
Registered: 12/20/02
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Reaching the 5th level, and beyond....
    #2006949 - 10/14/03 12:52 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

What I've been trying to tackle is the complexity of a level 5 trip. I believe I have only had one lvl 5 trip, which was bad. Reason being it was only my second trip so I say: a.)inexperience, b)100g's of copelandia's. Since then(over a year) I've gotten over the fear of bad trips simply because there's no such thing. A trip is a trip in and of itself, it's when we start reading into it too much and trying to "figure it out" that labels get placed on the trip. I try to go with the flow and figure the trip out later.

Nowadays I don't mess with anything under 5 grams. Not that I've developed a physical tolerance, but by tripping 12 times a little wall breathing and tracers aren't shit. I normally take around 7 grams and have what I would consider a lvl4 trip. I know that a key charectaristic of a lvl 5 trip is ego loss. The loss of one's self and unconsciously not being aware of your presence. Those who have expierenced it for themselves know. My most recent trip was 9 dry grams. Figuring I'd hit a lvl 5 for sure, I didn't. I tripped extremely hard, had some unearlty revelations, and saw a part of my friends face turn into machine parts and clockwork. It was definetely good, but I can't hit that lvl 5. I'm not holding anything back when I trip and always go with the flow. I just feel that I can hold myself together well enough to never have ego loss. Granted I could take a heroic dose (probabably about 14g to me) but I don't want to freak out. I never worry about freaking out and am comfortable with my 7 and 8 gram doses, but I don't know how much more I should push the envelope? I figure 8g's are enough.

So the question is can one have a good level 5 trip? All my trips include major mindfudge, breathing, and melting and morphing of various objects. But, a level 5 trip, total choas. Mind acts like a supercomputer and your body goes catatonic. And you probably couldn't answer the easiest of questions, becasue every single thing around you is irrecognizable and makes no sense.

"I'm getting the feeling like only bad trips are level 5, like you have control the whole time, then right when you fight the trip and loose, chaos ensues and blammo you're INSANE"

Any comments or storys on mega dose trips (7g's plus) would be helpful. I'm trying to solve this tripping dillemna. I know the rabbit hole is infinetely deep, but how deep can some people go with out freaking out? I'm on a mission boys and girls. My next trip I think will be 11 or 12 grams. I'm pretty confident I can hold it together, considering my 8 and 9 gram trips went good.

There is another level, who's gonna help me find it?


--------------------
manja!


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Offlinebiglo
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Re: Reaching the 5th level, and beyond.... [Re: harken989]
    #2006978 - 10/14/03 01:11 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I'd like to help any way I can. I've tripped several times, but I've never taken a really heroic dose. The highest trip I ever had was probably a +3 to -4 trip before. I am also afraid of flipping out, so I do psychedelics in moderation, which is usually the best way, because I'm at least semi-functional. You can probably reach a higher level trip without taking more weed. The key is pot. With pot, (increasing dose in small increments) you may be able to cross the threshold of heroic into epic trip. The thing with pot is that even if the trip gets really intense, if you increase dose by small doses, the effects should wear off relatively quickly without you freaking out. Just my opinion from lower doses between the synthesasia of pot and shrooms.


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Offlineharken989
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Registered: 12/20/02
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Re: Reaching the 5th level, and beyond.... [Re: biglo]
    #2007025 - 10/14/03 01:38 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I know that some weed definetely gives the visuals and trip the extra kick. But I smoke on trips regardless, whenever I trip I make it a point to have weed. On my 9 grammer, me and my friend decided that the blunt should be rolled soon considering we just downed our powdered orange juice. My friend soon became captivated my the TV, unable to break it up he gives it to me and let me tell you it wace a race against time to get that rolled. It took so much concentration, by the time it was done I was somewhat tripping and the blunt looked a little shagggy, but it still hit nice, although we saved it for 3 hrs later.............

Keep em commin I need herioc dose information, wheres MJshroomer? Im sure he's done some crazy shit considering how cracked out he is. You think that the shrooms have to something to do with his spelling? I don't know, but I'd like to hear from him esp. with that 1500 cube pic.

Ohh and I think your a little confused about synethesia. I know it's not spelled right but its when your senses get jumbled. Example being: tasting colors or seeing sound.


--------------------
manja!


Edited by harken989 (10/14/03 01:43 AM)


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Reaching the 5th level, and beyond.... [Re: harken989]
    #2007105 - 10/14/03 02:08 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Harken, you have written some good posts and it is obvious you are an experienced tripper.

Without offending you, let me set you straight on lvl 5 trips. First, your ideas about lvl 5 are a little like a shroom virgin's idea of hallucinating. You're thinking in the right direction but since you haven't had a lvl 5 trip, you don't know how to describe what you are missing.

First, let me say this:

Lvl 5 trips are rare. Some trippers go their whole lives without having one.

Now, let me say:

If you reached lvl 5 you would know it.

Finally:

Lvl 5 has nothing to do with dosage, it has to do with spirituality. Tim Leary's "The Psychadellic Experience," is a great book for anyone who wants to achieve ego loss. It focuses primarily on how to reach and maintain Lvl 5. Of course, Leary gives lvl 5 a name... enlightenment.

My first, and only, lvl 5 trip happened on 1.5g of dried cubes. People don't believe me when I tell them I had a lvl 5 on 1.5g. I remind those people, "You weren't there."

I was one with the universe. It was a very wonderful feeling... understanding God, and the Universe... but lonely as well. I can understand how some people have bad times when they reach lvl 5. I was prepared, and able to embrace it with open arms. I am by no means a lightweight. I have downed 7-9g with ease... I just don't get to lvl 5; or rather, I only glimpse at lvl 5.

A trip is what you make of it... even at lvl 5. You are in control of it being a good, or a bad trip.

Meditation and yoga can be helpful in achieving a lvl 5 trip. Spiritual music or chants can help too.

You can't make yourself have a lvl 5 trip, you must allow yourself to have one.

Don't confuse lvl 5 with hallucinations. Level 5 trancends hallucinations.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.



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OfflineEuphoria
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Registered: 08/05/03
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Re: Reaching the 5th level, and beyond.... [Re: Rose]
    #2007311 - 10/14/03 03:16 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

As one who had unwillingly and un-pre-knowingly achieved a lvl5, I can say that Cervantes hit the nail bang on.


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Offlineorizon
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Re: Reaching the 5th level, and beyond.... [Re: Rose]
    #2007313 - 10/14/03 03:17 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I have been taking shrooms for about 5 years now and unless taken weekly I think it is not possible to build a tolerance. Ive never gone over 5 grams of dried cubies for I find higher dosages result in more nausea. Im not sure if Ive reached a level 5 trip but I have flat down hallucinated objects on some trips and on other lighter ones have gotten those nice little designs and breathing walls melting etc...I think the environment has more to do with the level rather than going into extreme dosages as you are describing. However I have had level 10 experiences from shrooms with a mixture I think is way underestimated. Next time you are tripping...Hit some NITROUS. wippets from baloons or whatever. This intensifies any trip 20 fold for a minute or 2 until the nitrous high wears off. Yes n2o alone is a pretty cheap high...but when mixed with psychadelics, the effects are amazing.


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OfflineSummerBreeze
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Re: Reaching the 5th level, and beyond.... [Re: orizon]
    #2007590 - 10/14/03 06:05 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Mate, i dont even use this system of yours to work out how stoned i am. Whats that all about? I dont know!?!

You know your completely fcuked when theres sparks flyin' from whatever you point at and each spark is you on another voyage of discovery.

Largest, strongest, longest mushroom trip i ever had was close to 14 years ago, i think i've written about this somewhere before, when i consumed upwards of 680/700 dried Liberty Caps in one sittin'.
I was freakin' proper at one stage. We were all trippin' together in a friends house and as i looked up the stairs a door closed, though i knew there was noone up there. Instantly my hackles rose i recall startin' to shake and moan slightly.
Then my good friend P, lovely girl, told me that she was about to place a glowin' blue orb of protection around me to keep me safe from whatever was around. Yes, i know how bad it sounds, Hippie ballix, but i was 17/18 or so. I could see the orb as it settled round me and on occassion i would invite another member of our group in to experience the stillness, the calmness, the utter beauty of the orb from the inside.
I can still feel that when i think back.

If level 5 is holdin' the mooon in your hand as it sings, then yes, been there.
If its crawlin' into a neighbours garden to get a look at the most beautiful flower in the universe then hangin' around till daybreak hummin' tunes at it, then yes, been there.
If its fallin' inside a coffee cup and havin' to plan a fiendish escape while your friend extracts himself from the caf? sign that he's just fallen into, then, yes, been there, and that one was only last Month, i'd forgotten that.

All this talk of levels one to five is almost as tedious as the HBWR threads.
Can we just assume that everyone is different and whats good for one may not be the best for someone else?

Its all about stayin' calm and havin' a good time, not chalkin' your scores up on the wall when your finished so you can compare at a later date.*







*Although this is of course what i have done above.


--------------------
"Must'nt Grumble!".


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

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Re: Reaching the 5th level, and beyond.... [Re: SummerBreeze]
    #2007736 - 10/14/03 09:03 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

> If level 5 is holdin' the mooon in your hand as it sings, then yes, been there.

I don't believe in the 'level 5' myth... I think a 'level 5 trip' can happen at any dosage, or no dosage.

Holding the moon in your hand as it sings... very strong level 4.
Being the song the moon is singing... 'level 5'.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Reaching the 5th level, and beyond.... [Re: Seuss]
    #2007760 - 10/14/03 09:31 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Seuss gets a cookie.

Summerbreeze, you described a lvl 4 trip. Lvl 4 trips are the most intense trip you can have.

The trip rating system is very confusing. lvl 1-4 have to do with dosage. Lvl 5 does not.

lvl 5 is different entirely. If you think a lvl 5 trip is all about visualizations, you're confusing it with a lvl 4. Look at the bright side, you still have more to experience.

I swear, if you have a lvl 5 trip, the visualizations won't matter.
Lvl 5 is a spiritual awakening. You will know it when you experience true ego loss.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.



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Offlinesirreal
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Re: Reaching the 5th level, and beyond.... [Re: Rose]
    #2008185 - 10/14/03 01:46 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Cervantes said:
I was one with the universe. It was a very wonderful feeling... understanding God, and the Universe... but lonely as well.





How can a person experiencing ego loss be lonely?

That statement makes me wonder if you have ever experienced it.


--------------------
I may not always tell the truth, but atleast I'm honest
-----------

I see what everyone is saying. It is so hard to form an opinion when you see both sides so clearly!


Edited by sirreal (10/14/03 02:14 PM)


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OfflineSummerBreeze
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Re: Reaching the 5th level, and beyond.... [Re: Rose]
    #2008207 - 10/14/03 02:00 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

"Holding the moon in your hand as it sings... very strong level 4.
Being the song the moon is singing... 'level 5'."

Good one!

So if i work by this system a 'Level Five' should be able to be experienced through, for example, a four day binge on assorted drugs and booze.

So long as your pill intake has equaled the hours sleep and calories taken into your body in that space of time you should be sure of all the classic symptoms you have discribed.


As for ego loss, mate, how can you possibly know what i have and have not had the pleasure of experiencin'?

I'll have you know my ego has been round the block a few times.
I once lost in it the washer and was without for a number of days.

No big deal.

Lost your ego?
Hey, call the fcukin' cops!


--------------------
"Must'nt Grumble!".


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Offlinedjd586
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Re: Reaching the 5th level, and beyond.... [Re: SummerBreeze] * 1
    #2008393 - 10/14/03 03:28 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Level 5 trips are actually very difficult to define. Like someone said before, if you experienced a level 5 trip would you even know you had one? For me, a level 5 trip is beyond the physical realm of this world. It's only possible to acheive once the total stucture of mind, ego and soul are shattered.

You can take enough shrooms to experience a level 5 trip but never get there because you're too consumed in fighting yourself from letting go and in turn you experience a nightmare trip. You fight with the past, future and present. You fight who you are and who want to become and the road you must travle to get there. You fight the physical world around you, using every ounce of mental strength you have trying to tell yourself that none of this is really happening. You fight to urge to cry. . . scream. . . break down in to a mangled heap of emotions. You fight yourself. You stuggle and struggle and hold on with all your might. You try and comprehend what's going on inside you as well in your surrounding envoironment. You look to grasp onto anything that has a touch of reality to it. You have to convince yourself that you're not in a nightmare but mearly on mushrooms. You tell yourself this over and over again. Then finally, hours later, you begin to decend back into reality. You're left scratching your head. "Gosh, that was a crazy experence... I don't think I'll do that again." Then you run to the shroomery and or to your friends and tell them about your crazy level 5 trip. You speak of the insanity of it all. You had no concept of anything. You couldn't even grasp the concept of you being alive. Then you move on with your life, thinking that your profound level 5 trip has changed your philosophy on life and your are much wiser for it.

Well, you didn't experience a level 5 trip.

With a true level 5 trip you have learned the trick of letting go. Even people who can transend into level 5 trips have trouble letting go of who they are. What typically happens to me is I'll struggle with letting go for a long time. I tell myself I took way too much. I feel like I'm going insane. I'll tell myself I'm headed for a bad trip. I'll struggle and strugle and refuse to let go of my reality. I look for something real to grab. I'll look for a friend to talk to. I fight to urge to break down... Then something happens... I give up on fighting. My physical reality fades out. Memories of my past fly by me at light speed but some how I'm able to reflect on the entirty of them in a course of a second. I'm flying I think, feeling like I'm being pulled somewhere really fast, but what's interesting is there's nothing on my body to be pulled because I have no body. I arrive someplace. I don't know what or where it is but I don't care. I feel like I'm a rock or a tree or a drop of dew on a leaf observing a sarine setting. Nothing seems to happens. I hear something calling me. I look and see nothing. I observe the bueaty of the sun refleting of the ripples in the water. Then in an instant I become the sun drenched ripple on the water. I feel the suns warmth. I roll over and turn back around. I see the shore from a distance. I am relaxed. I feel myself roll over again. This feeling of being liquid is truely amazing (although I'm not acutally able to comprehend it at that moment. Only hours later am I able to put any of this together.) I slowly ripple towards the shoreline. I see a butterfly flutter over me. In a flash I am the butterfly. I flutter through the air towards the shore and land on the moist sandy shoreline. I take a drink off the damp ground. It is so soothing. I have been flying for hours and I'm really tired. I feel like I'm going to collapse. I feel like if I stay in this spot much longer I'll be in danger. I flutter over to plant leaf and rest my wings. I feel old. I relax my wings and try to think. I can't think. I don't know how to think. I melt into the leaf. I feel like liquid again. Everything is vividly green. I feel like I'm traveling through the vascular system of the plant, through it's stem in to its roots then back into the ground. I'm flying again. I'm being pulled harded then I was before. There's a sense of urgancy to get somewhere. There are color everywhere. I can taste them. I can hear them, I can feel them. I realize that I am a color. I'm blue. I'm weighless, moving fast. I see a window. I fly into it and then through it. I'm split in to many different rays. I start to feel myself breathing again. It feels good... like I'm coming home from a trip that lasted too long. I feel my legs and then arms. I feel my heart beating. I open my eyes. I'm laying in my room on the grond next to my couch. My friends watching MTV and laughing histarically. Music is playing in the background. I don't know what it is but it feels good to hear. I lift my head off the ground and finally realize that I am infact myself. It's hard to say if this is real at first. I still feel very intoxicated. I remind myself what's going on, or at least I try to remind myself. I look at the clock. "1:54" has no meaning to me. my previous days work floods into my mind. I feel anxious about it. I realize that I'm start to come down. I get up and sit on the couch next to my friend. I ask him how long I've been laying on the grund. He says he thinks I've been down there for 2 and a half hours. I turn my focus on to the televison and quickly become engorssed in what happening. I am happy. I feel good. I have had a level 5 trip.

Not to say that all my level 5 tirps are like that. I've in fact only experienced two. Most of the time I fight with my ego and for the most part it has a harder time letting go of me then I do letting go of it.


--------------------

Phase 1... collect underpants... phase 2...??? ... Phase 3 - PROFIT!


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Reaching the 5th level, and beyond.... [Re: djd586]
    #2008704 - 10/14/03 05:26 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

*How can a person experiencing ego loss be lonely?
*That statement makes me wonder if you have ever experienced it.

I wasn't exactly lonely (and it wasn't a bad thing) but I was VERY AWARE of being alone in my room. This was in contrast to my feelings of awe and wonder. Kind of like the Star Child in, "2001, A Space Oddessy."

I fealt alone in the universe (No doubt because I WAS alone in my room... and the room WAS my universe).

It is the only thing resembling human emotion I experienced the entire trip so I thought I'd mention it. Sorry if it casts doubt on my entire experience.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.



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Offlinesirreal
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Re: Reaching the 5th level, and beyond.... [Re: Rose]
    #2008733 - 10/14/03 05:36 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Cervantes said:
I fealt alone in the universe (No doubt because I WAS alone in my room... and the room WAS my universe).




You felt?

How can there be any I or My in an ego death experience?Upon reflection maybe, but how can you feel anything regarding yourself during an ego death experience?

I am not trying to be a smartass. I just want you to be sure that what you experienced was in fact ego death.



--------------------
I may not always tell the truth, but atleast I'm honest
-----------

I see what everyone is saying. It is so hard to form an opinion when you see both sides so clearly!


Edited by sirreal (10/14/03 05:37 PM)


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Offlinesirreal
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Re: Reaching the 5th level, and beyond.... [Re: Rose]
    #2008764 - 10/14/03 05:47 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Cervantes, I want to explain what I mean to you. I am not just being antagonistic, I have a purpose.

I have had two experiences where I ,upon reflection, thought my ego had left me. Both times I was not aware of my own presence. It is so hard for me to get my mind around this now, so I have a hard time explaining this to anyone.

I had no feelings or longings.I was not there. I had no likes or dislikes, no preferences of any kind. I remembered it later as if it were a television show that I had watched.

Music meant absolutely nothing to me. I wanted nothing.

I wish I were more capable of explaining this. I hope you understand what I mean.


--------------------
I may not always tell the truth, but atleast I'm honest
-----------

I see what everyone is saying. It is so hard to form an opinion when you see both sides so clearly!


Edited by sirreal (10/14/03 05:49 PM)


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Offlinesirreal
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Re: Reaching the 5th level, and beyond.... [Re: Rose]
    #2008816 - 10/14/03 06:00 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Cervantes said:
*How can a person experiencing ego loss be lonely?
*That statement makes me wonder if you have ever experienced it.

I wasn't exactly lonely (and it wasn't a bad thing) but I was VERY AWARE of being alone in my room. This was in contrast to my feelings of awe and wonder. Kind of like the Star Child in, "2001, A Space Oddessy."

I fealt alone in the universe (No doubt because I WAS alone in my room... and the room WAS my universe).

It is the only thing resembling human emotion I experienced the entire trip so I thought I'd mention it. Sorry if it casts doubt on my entire experience.





What you describe here sounds more like ego bliss.It was just YOU and the universe. Nothing else existed.


--------------------
I may not always tell the truth, but atleast I'm honest
-----------

I see what everyone is saying. It is so hard to form an opinion when you see both sides so clearly!


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Reaching the 5th level, and beyond.... [Re: sirreal]
    #2008866 - 10/14/03 06:11 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I know sirreal, you're making a point. And I do understand what you are saying. Your descriptions of lvl 5 are right on. You ARE preaching to the choir you know.

Everything you say rings true.

*How can there be any I or My in an ego death experience?Upon reflection maybe, but how can you feel anything regarding yourself during an ego death experience?

I AM reflecting on this trip now, aren't I?

I WAS aware of being alone... particularly early in the experience. It wasn't as big of a feeling as my description makes it sound. I'm afraid, when I said I fealt lonely, it popped out at you because it was the only thing thing that rang of ego.

I am trying to describe ego loss with human words. Remember, we are describing it to people who HAVEN'T experienced it. I have to put it into more human terms, or I risk sounding like Yoda.

I did experience ego loss. It happened in my room and I was alone. I was aware of being alone in my room. Sorry I used the words I and my in this description.

This was a passing feeling. Writing about it like I have in this thread makes it seem like a much bigger thing than it actually was. I was simply AWARE of being alone.

To a lvl 5 virgin, like harken, who is a little afraid of the experience being bad, I thought I would make them privy to the only thing that wasn't sublime about my whole experience. A passing feeling that can best described to a lvl 5 virgin as lonliness.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.



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Offlinethisone
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Re: Reaching the 5th level, and beyond.... [Re: sirreal]
    #2008875 - 10/14/03 06:14 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

don't worry about the understanding of others. It is true that that will help form a bond and help you remember your significant moments and we all need refreshers at times. But remember, it was your experience. Forget levels. What did it mean to you? How did it change you life? Are you happy with those changes?
For a long time I spent a lot of time searching and wanting to scientifically calculate trips to experience each level to know asess each level. Use the language not the numbers.
Level 5-enlightenment. Not a temporary experience. A spritual experience, yes. If reaching that level helps you to feel at one, feel at peace, feel the one-ness of things for the moment that is a gift you have been given. It is your choice where to take that gift. It is your choice to let it influence your life, and the degree and depth you will go. It how you view your life after that moment.
Leary was on the spiritual trip yet he hoped if the world turned on, within two generations, psychedelics would no longer be needed.
In "Cleansing the Doors of Perception" by Huston Smith, he focuses on spiritual experiences leading to spiritual lives. If you have a great experience let it change your very being and lead a beautiful loving life because you felt what God felt at the time of Creation. The splendor of All.


--------------------
Everything written above this line is completely false. I am terribly bored and write here to pass time. I do not participate or support any illegal activity.


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Reaching the 5th level, and beyond.... [Re: thisone]
    #2009017 - 10/14/03 07:10 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

"The things are true that I forget
And no one's taught that to me yet."

Phish


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Fiddlesticks.



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Offlineentiformatie
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Re: Reaching the 5th level, and beyond.... [Re: harken989]
    #2009358 - 10/14/03 09:20 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

i personally dislike the 2 ego-loss trips i've had. i'll try once more, because i didnt have someone there to remind to let go, and that i won't physically die, like i thought the first two times. man, those 2 trips were really unhealthily intense. depressing, reality shattering. jumped off a pier naked and broke my ankle, so bone-shattering too.


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/opinion
.sean


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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics >> The Psychedelic Experience >> Trip Reports

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