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InvisibleSpitballJedi
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No Cook WBS * 18
    #20048754 - 05/27/14 08:17 PM (10 years, 7 months ago)

This is part of my series "The Basics"

Credit goes to PussyFart, aka NotaHacker420, for introducing me to the idea of not bothering with pre-cooking WBS. I do not cook, simmer, or boil WBS in any kind of way before it goes in to jars to be sterilized and I do not use WBS with cracked corn.

There are some key points to prepping WBS.

--We want the grains to have enough moisture without being too wet. One of the most common mistakes people make is making them too wet. This can lead to slow colonization and result in bacteria taking over. Too wet can also make it sticky so it's harder to shake later.

--We want our grain jars to be shakable once colonized. The right moisture content and some room at the top of the jar helps make them shakeable.

--Pressure cooking is essential.


Here's what I do:

1) Measure out WBS.
    I use 1/2 quart dry WBS for every myco-quart I plan to sterilize.

2) Rinse and Remove Floaters
    I put the dry ingredients in a big pot and fill with water. My WBS seems pretty dirty and it takes several rinses to get it clean, but the water should be clear when done.
    I remove the sunflower seeds. Some people don't, but I do. It's easy because they float. I find it easier to remove them than to leave them in. I end up having to skim the water anyway to remove all the garbage in there and the sunflower seeds get removed right along with it.

Dry WBS

Filling and stirring

Floaters

Scooping out the floaters and sunflower seeds

After removing floaters and sunflower seeds

After 5 rinses I put in my soak water

About 1/3 qt of floaters

4) Soak
    After rinsing, cover with hot tap water. I let the water get good and hot and fill the pot to about 3 inches above the WBS. Then, I sprinkle about 3tbls of gypsum on it. Don't mix it in because the gypsum will just settle to the bottom. I let soak 12-24 hours.

5) Drain
    After the soak, I pour in to a colander to drain. I don't rinse it again; it just drains. I shake it up a few times, but that's about it. It doesn't matter really how long you let it drain; almost all the water that will drain off does so in the first 10-15 minutes.


At this point, some of you some may be confused. It's been drilled in to your head to boil/simmer/cook your grains so they steam evaporate, the grain absorbs more water, and whatever other logic. This is not Rye Berries. Cooking is not needed. This is a fact.

6) Load in to jars
    After draining load in to jars. The WBS appears wetter than you are used to. That's okay. The extra moisture will be soaked up during sterilizing and then cooling.


7) Put On Lids

8) Pressure Cook/Sterilize

9) Shake
    After PCing, let the PC cool. Wait till the PC is just warm to the touch. Remove the warm jars shake them to redistribute the moisture. You will notice the WBS is wetter at the bottom. As they cool, the shake allows the moisture to be soaked up by the cooling grains. You can shake them while they are still hot, but the hotter jars are more susceptible to breaking if you accidentally bang them.

Also, if using plastic lids, plastic cools at a different rate than glass and if you take them out while still too hot, the lids can get warped and don't tighten right.

Edited by SpitballJedi (04/10/16 10:52 PM)

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OfflineGhettoShroom
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Re: How I Do WBS [Re: SpitballJedi] * 1
    #20048774 - 05/27/14 08:22 PM (10 years, 7 months ago)

I'll be honest and say I'm a rookie mycologist, but i was under the impression that the cooking before sterilization is for getting rid of endospores. Am I way off here? please correct me if so... either way I will be trying this out. thanks for the tek :thumbup:


--------------------


    “There is a transcendental dimension beyond language. It’s just hard as hell to talk about it.”

- Terence Mckenna
All of RR's notes on cultivation

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InvisibleSpitballJedi
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Re: How I Do WBS [Re: GhettoShroom] * 4
    #20048796 - 05/27/14 08:28 PM (10 years, 7 months ago)

Boiling/simmering does not get rid of endospores, that's what pressure cooking is for. There are many people who do the simmer/boil for their reasons. I don't not subscribe to the cooking


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OfflineDroolingRock
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Re: How I Do WBS [Re: SpitballJedi] * 1
    #20048816 - 05/27/14 08:35 PM (10 years, 7 months ago)

I believe people that boil/simmer before PCing are doing so in order to achieve what they consider to be ideal moisture content.

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InvisibleMr. Alien
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Re: How I Do WBS [Re: SpitballJedi] * 1
    #20048857 - 05/27/14 08:48 PM (10 years, 7 months ago)

Hey jedi today was the TEK day for you! :raisemyglass:

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OfflineGhettoShroom
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Re: How I Do WBS [Re: SpitballJedi] * 1
    #20048881 - 05/27/14 08:54 PM (10 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

SpitballJedi said:
Boiling/simmering does not get rid of endospores, that's what pressure cooking is for. There are many people who do the simmer/boil for their reasons. I don't not subscribe to the cooking




Good to know, thanks!


--------------------


    “There is a transcendental dimension beyond language. It’s just hard as hell to talk about it.”

- Terence Mckenna
All of RR's notes on cultivation

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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: How I Do WBS [Re: GhettoShroom] * 1
    #20048911 - 05/27/14 09:03 PM (10 years, 7 months ago)

The few times I did WBS I never simmered either or else I ended up with an exploded mess. Good writeup :super:

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Invisibleblindingleaf
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Re: How I Do WBS [Re: Pastywhyte] * 2
    #20049057 - 05/27/14 09:39 PM (10 years, 7 months ago)

i go back an forth when I use WBS, which is rare, i still dunno if i like the simmer or no simmer more.  i just stick to rye.  WBS bit me in the ass as a noob, and ill never forgive it :lol:


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MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!!

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OfflinecronicrMFacebook
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Re: How I Do WBS [Re: blindingleaf] * 1
    #20049380 - 05/27/14 11:06 PM (10 years, 7 months ago)

:fonz:


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InvisibleSpitballJedi
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Re: How I Do WBS [Re: cronicr] * 1
    #20079968 - 06/03/14 07:38 PM (10 years, 7 months ago)

Thx for the support guys. Ya'll is awesome


--------------------
The Basics
A little civility goes a long way

The Noob Forum
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Invisibleelasticaltiger
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Re: How I Do WBS [Re: SpitballJedi] * 1
    #20256345 - 07/11/14 02:14 AM (10 years, 6 months ago)

I just wanted to say I thought your pictures were beautiful, especially the one with clear soaking water.

:Awemazing:

Sweet.


--------------------
First time growing cakes? DON'T make a Shotgun Fruiting Chamber

The Shmuvbox. - The Old TC's Like it :shrug:

Afraid to Start Growing From Your Own Prints? Drop it Like a Tiger!
No Pouring. No Syringes. No Cutting. No flaming. No Contamination. No Bullshit.

"The best thing to do while your waiting is to start more stuff. I usually got so much happening that I have tossed projects simply because I didn't have time for them. -Pastywhite QFT

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InvisibleTheEaglesGift
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Re: How I Do WBS [Re: elasticaltiger] * 2
    #20256398 - 07/11/14 03:00 AM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Leave the sunflowers in! They provide lignans, fats and other nutrients that the other seeds don't have. I actually don't strain any of my floaters at all. I'll have random pieces of bark and beetles in my grain jars, and it all gets colonized all the same. I hate being wasteful.

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Re: How I Do WBS [Re: TheEaglesGift] * 1
    #20256406 - 07/11/14 03:12 AM (10 years, 6 months ago)

you certainly can leave floaters but most find they dont hold water worth a shit


--------------------
It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn
I'm tired do me a favor

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Invisibleelasticaltiger
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Re: How I Do WBS [Re: cronicr] * 1
    #20256417 - 07/11/14 03:34 AM (10 years, 6 months ago)

I only take out floaters because they 'float'

It's like... am I going to go to the trouble of keeping the floaters in while I rinse my grains multiple times or am I just going to let them go?

Plus during my 3 - 6 rinses sticks and twigs pop up amongst the floaters and those bitches need to go yo.


--------------------
First time growing cakes? DON'T make a Shotgun Fruiting Chamber

The Shmuvbox. - The Old TC's Like it :shrug:

Afraid to Start Growing From Your Own Prints? Drop it Like a Tiger!
No Pouring. No Syringes. No Cutting. No flaming. No Contamination. No Bullshit.

"The best thing to do while your waiting is to start more stuff. I usually got so much happening that I have tossed projects simply because I didn't have time for them. -Pastywhite QFT

Pastywhite's Easy Agar Tek (PastyPlates)

Tiger Drop Video Demos By munchauzen

Van Gogh would’ve sold more than one painting if he’d put tigers in them.―Bill Watterson

EZEKIEL 23:20

Edited by elasticaltiger (07/11/14 04:42 AM)

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InvisibleTheEaglesGift
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Re: How I Do WBS [Re: elasticaltiger] * 1
    #20256440 - 07/11/14 03:54 AM (10 years, 6 months ago)

I guess I'm just not as ANAL as you guys.

:bashful:

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Re: How I Do WBS [Re: TheEaglesGift] * 1
    #20256626 - 07/11/14 05:48 AM (10 years, 6 months ago)

I find the best way is to drain, heat up some water seperately and quickly cover the grains with it and drain imedietly.  This way you dont cook the grains and you still get maximum steam off which leaves the grains dry on the outside. 

By the way OP, this is why we do this stage.

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InvisibleSpitballJedi
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Re: How I Do WBS [Re: Edmunter] * 2
    #20256849 - 07/11/14 07:22 AM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

TheEaglesGift said:
Leave the sunflowers in!




Make me. I haven't seen any use for them. I remove them.


Quote:

Edmunter said:
...and you still get maximum steam off which leaves the grains dry on the outside. 

By the way OP, this is why we do this stage.




I'm very aware of steam evaporation and why it's done; this isn't my first day at the job. It isn't necessary with WBS. Maybe it is if the sunflower seeds are left in, but I wouldn't know.

My method works great and others will agree. This IS the way I do WBS.


--------------------
The Basics
A little civility goes a long way

The Noob Forum
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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: How I Do WBS [Re: SpitballJedi] * 1
    #20256857 - 07/11/14 07:27 AM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

SpitballJedi said:
Quote:

TheEaglesGift said:
Leave the sunflowers in!




Make me. I haven't seen any use for them. I remove them.



They make great spawn.

Lol just sayin. They will not hurt a thing.

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Re: How I Do WBS [Re: PussyFart] * 1
    #20256868 - 07/11/14 07:31 AM (10 years, 6 months ago)

I just followed your rye grain prep, I have a bunch of WBS I could use, but I'm wondering is there much difference between using rye and WBS in this game?

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InvisibleSpitballJedi
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Re: How I Do WBS [Re: PussyFart] * 1
    #20256881 - 07/11/14 07:38 AM (10 years, 6 months ago)

PF, I'm sure you're right. But, it's a personal preference.

cr0sis, both work well. I actually prefer rye. WBS seems to colonize a tub slightly faster and is cheaper. But, I haven't seen any difference in final results.

WBS vs Rye Berries


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The Basics
A little civility goes a long way

The Noob Forum
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Offlinecr0sis
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Re: How I Do WBS [Re: SpitballJedi] * 1
    #20256891 - 07/11/14 07:44 AM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Brilliant info, thanks very much!

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Offlinetripdawg420
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Re: How I Do WBS [Re: cr0sis]
    #20256972 - 07/11/14 08:21 AM (10 years, 6 months ago)

i remove mine :shrug: 

when i first started every one was like omg take all that shit oput so i kinda got stuck they pour out first when you rinse :thumbup:


--------------------
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http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/11917410
results :thumbup:

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Re: How I Do WBS [Re: SpitballJedi]
    #20257242 - 07/11/14 09:46 AM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

SpitballJedi said:
Quote:

TheEaglesGift said:
Leave the sunflowers in!




Make me. I haven't seen any use for them. I remove them.


Quote:

Edmunter said:
...and you still get maximum steam off which leaves the grains dry on the outside. 

By the way OP, this is why we do this stage.




I'm very aware of steam evaporation and why it's done; this isn't my first day at the job. It isn't necessary with WBS. Maybe it is if the sunflower seeds are left in, but I wouldn't know.

My method works great and others will agree. This IS the way I do WBS.




I didn't mean you op I meant GhettoShroom sorry.  You crack on bro, no worries

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InvisibleSpitballJedi
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Re: How I Do WBS [Re: tripdawg420]
    #20257385 - 07/11/14 10:32 AM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Yeah, that's pretty much it TD. It seems easier to remove them than leave them in


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A little civility goes a long way

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InvisibleSpitballJedi
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Re: How I Do WBS [Re: Edmunter]
    #20257386 - 07/11/14 10:32 AM (10 years, 6 months ago)

It's all good bro


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The Basics
A little civility goes a long way

The Noob Forum
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Invisibleblindingleaf
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Re: How I Do WBS [Re: SpitballJedi]
    #20257414 - 07/11/14 10:39 AM (10 years, 6 months ago)

lignin is provided by the coir most people spawn to anyway...


--------------------
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MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!!

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OfflineKizzle
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Re: How I Do WBS [Re: SpitballJedi]
    #20257547 - 07/11/14 11:13 AM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

SpitballJedi said:
Boiling/simmering does not get rid of endospores, that's what pressure cooking is for. There are many people who do the simmer/boil for their reasons. I don't not subscribe to the cooking



It does help reduce them though if there's also say a 12 hour delay between the boil and PCing. It's not important if you're PCing for 90 minutes but for people using shorter times like 60 minutes endospore count can make all the difference.


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Invisible36fuckin5
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Re: How I Do WBS [Re: Kizzle]
    #20257916 - 07/11/14 12:44 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Simmering isn't something that should be skipped. It finishes up your hydration. It's the difference between 4 oz per flush or 6.

The only reason you don't see a difference is because your grains aren't dry when you load them, so that bit of water absorbs while you PC. I bet you end up with loads of burst grains in the jar when you're done though. 15 minutes isn't nearly long enough to dry your grain. I drain mine for a good 5-10 minutes then lay it on a towel while hot and it still takes an hour.


--------------------
Pat The Bunny said:
A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me.

bodhisatta said:
i recommend common sense and figuring it out.

These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.

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InvisibleTheEaglesGift
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Re: How I Do WBS [Re: 36fuckin5]
    #20258152 - 07/11/14 02:04 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

I start my 24 hour soak with boiling water, and then 12 hours in change it out for boiling water again. Do you think this is enough to hydrate my grains adequately? They don't seem plump and cooked, but never are burst. My grain colonizes with no complaints regardless. I respect your opinions on it. 

I never imagined that grain hydration would effect yield as much as you're suggesting it does, at least not in my setting of a monotub that contains 4.5 quarts of water.

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InvisibleSpitballJedi
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Re: How I Do WBS [Re: 36fuckin5] * 1
    #20258224 - 07/11/14 02:24 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

36fuckin5 said:
Simmering isn't something that should be skipped. It finishes up your hydration. It's the difference between 4 oz per flush or 6.

The only reason you don't see a difference is because your grains aren't dry when you load them, so that bit of water absorbs while you PC. I bet you end up with loads of burst grains in the jar when you're done though. 15 minutes isn't nearly long enough to dry your grain. I drain mine for a good 5-10 minutes then lay it on a towel while hot and it still takes an hour.





Skipping cooking with WBS is perfectly fine and more people than you realize likely do it this way. Simmering WBS is completely pointless. I get way more burst grain when I simmer. Fuck simmering WBS.

Cooking vs not cooking makes no difference in weight per flush. A perfectly hydrated grain is a perfectly hydrated grain regardless of how it was accomplished.

Remember, we are talking WBS, not rye.


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Invisible36fuckin5
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Re: How I Do WBS [Re: SpitballJedi]
    #20258235 - 07/11/14 02:28 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

I've done the tests myself. Simmering my grain always gets me more fruits.

If you're getting a lot of burst grains, you're probably boiling and not actually simmering. Most people don't know how to hold a proper simmer compared to a low boil. 5 bubbles per minute or so is all you want.

I'm not saying this way won't work, I'm just saying it's not 100% optimal. Yes, perfectly hydrated is perfectly hydrated, but you can get more water in that grain by simmering, be it WBS, rye, whatever. Keeping your soak water hot helps a lot, too.


--------------------
Pat The Bunny said:
A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me.

bodhisatta said:
i recommend common sense and figuring it out.

These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.

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Invisibleblindingleaf
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Re: How I Do WBS [Re: 36fuckin5]
    #20258276 - 07/11/14 02:40 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

after a soak (at least 8 hours) i heat the pot up till its steaming kinda heavy.  if there are bubbles, its few and far btw.  this is really, for me, just to make it faster to get them dry on outside, it takes a long time to dry otherwise every time i have not heated it
for me, as long as it is plump, and pops like a pimple when pinched it should be good.  i often bite into it thru the heating, and make sure there is still some dry matter in the center, that will help the grain keep its integrity thru the entire grain colonization process and spawning to bulk.  for example, if u hold a kernel of prepped rye up to the light, there will still be about 30-40% solid in the middle, with a translucent look surrounding it.
if i only have time for 4 hour soak, i just need to heat it longer.  the soak just makes the shell softer, so it doesn't explode when its heated.
with WBS, it was always sticky, even if there were no bubble during the heating part, unless i added a lot of gypsum.  i also noticed, if i heated the water/WBS before starting the soak for a bit, maybe like ten minutes, then DRAINED that water, and refilled it with new water to start the long soak, it reduced stickiness as well.  i think that initial heating is just getting some of the extra starches out that WBS seems to inevitably have, so when u dump it, and start the actual soak, u don't have to worry about them lingering in the pot when u do the real heating later.
i use rye now for the simple reason that it just seemed like i needed to jump thru too many hoops to get WBS right.  wish it was cheaper, but hey, its grain spawn, and thats super important to get perfect for any grow, any species, and worth the extra $ for me at least


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Re: How I Do WBS [Re: 36fuckin5] * 1
    #20258784 - 07/11/14 05:09 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

36fuckin5 said:
I've done the tests myself. Simmering my grain always gets me more fruits.

If you're getting a lot of burst grains, you're probably boiling and not actually simmering. Most people don't know how to hold a proper simmer compared to a low boil. 5 bubbles per minute or so is all you want.

I'm not saying this way won't work, I'm just saying it's not 100% optimal. Yes, perfectly hydrated is perfectly hydrated, but you can get more water in that grain by simmering, be it WBS, rye, whatever. Keeping your soak water hot helps a lot, too.




That's where your wrong. It is 100% optimal. The water stuck to the WBS after draining seems to be the right amount of water for proper hydration.

WBS, when compared to rye, has a greater surface area to volume ratio. This may be why it can be done with WBS but not so ideal with rye.

You may be right. You might be getting more water in to the WBS by simmering, but that doesn't mean skipping it is less optimal. I'm confident that the difference in water is measured in the low gram area and has no measurable impact on yields, at least when considering other water sources that come in to the equation during the cultivation process.

Just to see, because I'm guessing, I will prepare WBS for 2 monos. I will weigh the grain so they are equal and use a typical amount. I will simmer one batch and PC, and no cook and PC the other. After they are cool, I will dump them and weigh them again. This will tell me the water difference. Sound reasonable?

After a couple hundred pounds each of no cook WBS and boiling rye, I have seen no difference in jar colonization times or yields. Maybe the equalizer is the fact that I dunk my grains after colonizing.

Although your logic seems reasonable, sometimes reality flies in the face of logic. I'm not trying to convince anyone to stop cooking WBS. I'm just offering an alternative that works equally well.


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Re: How I Do WBS [Re: SpitballJedi]
    #20258850 - 07/11/14 05:27 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

It's the difference between 4 oz per flush or 6.




this seems like a pretty outrageous claim.  maybe if u are casing straight grains, but if u are spawning to bulk, i really can't see an average increase of 2 oz being normal from just the addition of a simmer.

who knows tho, i have never done such a test, so maybe I'm being equally outrageous...


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Re: How I Do WBS [Re: blindingleaf]
    #20258872 - 07/11/14 05:35 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

blindingleaf said:
Quote:

It's the difference between 4 oz per flush or 6.




this seems like a pretty outrageous claim.

who knows tho, i have never done such a test, so maybe I'm being equally outrageous...




i'm sorry, who said that?

i missed it.

but outrageous non the less.


I NEVER SIMMER ANY GRAIN. 

i just soak, wash and drain, dry then pc.

Jedi... I agree with PF... I use my floaters :lol:
they do make for great spawn :thumbup:


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Re: How I Do WBS [Re: blindingleaf]
    #20258884 - 07/11/14 05:38 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

blindingleaf said:
Quote:

It's the difference between 4 oz per flush or 6.




this seems like a pretty outrageous claim.  maybe if u are casing straight grains, but if u are spawning to bulk, i really can't see an average increase of 2 oz being normal from just the addition of a simmer.

who knows tho, i have never done such a test, so maybe I'm being equally outrageous...




I'm in agreement with you BL. Even in cased grains I don't see how there could be that big of a difference. Unless what I think I know is actually wrong, there would have to be a 2oz difference in water content in the grain, and that's per flush. Multiply that by however many flushes he is implying.


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Re: How I Do WBS [Re: TheApprentice]
    #20258888 - 07/11/14 05:39 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

to each his/her own on that one


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Re: How I Do WBS [Re: SpitballJedi]
    #20258893 - 07/11/14 05:40 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

yup!  ^^


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Re: How I Do WBS [Re: SpitballJedi] * 1
    #20258900 - 07/11/14 05:42 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

SpitballJedi said:
to each his/her own on that one





awww you said HER :nicesmile:

but seriously, who said it was a 2oz difference?


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Re: How I Do WBS [Re: TheApprentice]
    #20258915 - 07/11/14 05:45 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/20257916#20257916

Quote:

36fuckin5 said:
It's the difference between 4 oz per flush or 6.




I think he may think I just pulled this tek out of my ass.


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Re: How I Do WBS [Re: SpitballJedi]
    #20258948 - 07/11/14 05:53 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

I almost always simmer my grains ( oats and popcorn I strait boil) But I have skipped the simmer on a few occasions. The only down side I noticed was that my grains took way longer to dry. Actually one of my biggest harvests came from WBS that was soaked for 36 hours with no simmer.


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Re: How I Do WBS [Re: MudaFuka]
    #20258966 - 07/11/14 05:56 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

yea for me its a quick drying thing with the simmer


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Re: How I Do WBS [Re: SpitballJedi]
    #20259026 - 07/11/14 06:11 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

SpitballJedi said:
You may be right. You might be getting more water in to the WBS by simmering, but that doesn't mean skipping it is less optimal. I'm confident that the difference in water is measured in the low gram area and has no measurable impact on yields, at least when considering other water sources that come in to the equation during the cultivation process.




Well that isn't optimal if you can get more in it, even if it's only a little bit more. Like I said, I'm sure it works, but you could get a bit more yield with some more water.

Quote:

Just to see, because I'm guessing, I will prepare WBS for 2 monos. I will weigh the grain so they are equal and use a typical amount. I will simmer one batch and PC, and no cook and PC the other. After they are cool, I will dump them and weigh them again. This will tell me the water difference. Sound reasonable?




Sounds good. If you have an isolate, use that on them and see the real difference through the whole grow.

Also, try it how I do it while you're experimenting. Rinse very well, then soak, but keep the soak water as hot as you can. I probably change mine every 3 or 4 hours, leave it while I sleep then change it again the next morning, till I'm ready to simmer. If you're using gypsum, add it right before you simmer. Then drain in a colander and dry it the same way you're gonna dry your other WBS.

IME, keeping the soak water hot and simmering on very low for a while gets more water in the grain than I thought possible before I tried it. It's a noticeable difference.

Quote:

Although your logic seems reasonable, sometimes reality flies in the face of logic. I'm not trying to convince anyone to stop cooking WBS. I'm just offering an alternative that works equally well.




IDK about equally well, but if you test it we'll find out. It definitely does work though. People have been doing it roughly like this for years now.

I'm gonna scale back on my actives, maybe even switch to purely exotics, and ramp up some edibles in hopes of starting a business soon (having a kid, don't want to be in jail and leave the mom to raise the kid alone) so once I do that I'll probably document some shit.


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Re: How I Do WBS [Re: blindingleaf]
    #20259096 - 07/11/14 06:27 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

I don't know what the force is called, but water has a surface tension. You can see it if you fill a glass to the top and then just a little more before it spills over. Right at that point, you can see the water actually above the rim of the glass but not spilling because of this tension. Forgive me if my terminology is not accurate, but hopefully you get what I mean.

Heat will break this surface tension and cause the water to spill over. This is at least part of the reason why steam evaporation occurs after the cooking of grains.

When we don't heat the grains and just drain them, the same force that causes the water's surface tension also causes the water to wrap the grains. I think you can imagine it like a cocoon around the grain.

Without heat, the surface tension is strong enough to keep water adhered to the grain for a long period of time. Because of this, the vast majority of water will be removed from draining within 10-20 mins, or maybe even sooner. I've left uncooked WBS in the strainer for 5 hours and it looks the same as it did 20-30 mins after pouring it in.

If left out long enough, the water will evaporate due to other climatological reasons, but heat is a catalyst. My house is usually 70-75F in the summer and all my stuff is done indoors. A hot, dry house with fans going may impact results, but likely only minimally.

The main point I'm trying to make is that you don't need to let uncooked WBS sit more than 30 mins or so, maybe even not that long, because they won't get any dryer. Your grains will seem too wet before you PC.


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Re: How I Do WBS [Re: SpitballJedi]
    #20259132 - 07/11/14 06:32 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

i want 2 more oz per flush:shrug:


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Re: How I Do WBS [Re: SpitballJedi]
    #20259145 - 07/11/14 06:36 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

No simmer and drain until grain feels dry and rolls off your hand ive found thats really important if you get impatient and load your jars damp its all bad :thumbup:


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Re: How I Do WBS [Re: 36fuckin5]
    #20259226 - 07/11/14 06:54 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Measuring the water content of the grain should be enough of an experiment. If there is no significant difference in water content of the grain, then there should be no significant difference in yields, all else being equal.

Besides, one of the advantages of the no cook over your method is that I don't have to nurse a batch of WBS. I can put it in water before work and drain it when I get home.

At this point, I'm just gonna agree to disagree with you and move on with what I do. If the experiment I lined out is not good enough for you , then I won't bother because I don't care enough do it just for me.


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Re: How I Do WBS [Re: SHROOMYG]
    #20259244 - 07/11/14 06:59 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

SHROOMYG said:
No simmer and drain until grain feels dry and rolls off your hand ive found thats really important if you get impatient and load your jars damp its all bad :thumbup:




My WBS is always wet when it goes in the jar. If it's not, then it seems too dry for the spawn run. I don't know how you get uncooked WBS dry nor do I try to.

For the sake of conversation, I try and distinguish between WBS and other grains to eliminate confusion. I always boil and dry my rye, but never WBS.


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Re: How I Do WBS [Re: SpitballJedi]
    #20259516 - 07/11/14 07:47 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

SpitballJedi said:
I don't know what the force is called, but water has a surface tension.




Its called the "meniscus" :super:

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Re: How I Do WBS [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #20259586 - 07/11/14 07:58 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

:themoreyouknow: :saulgoodman:


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Re: How I Do WBS [Re: SpitballJedi]
    #20260213 - 07/11/14 09:52 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

It's possible that simmering weakens the cellulose of the grains, allowing for easier digestion. This could account for increased yields(though I find 2 oz per flush increase highly dubious) from simmered grains, and not the water content. Just a theory, that I have no idea how I'd go about actually testing.

Edited by TheEaglesGift (07/11/14 09:57 PM)

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Re: How I Do WBS [Re: TheEaglesGift]
    #20260219 - 07/11/14 09:52 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Rinse very well, then soak, but keep the soak water as hot as you can. I probably change mine every 3 or 4 hours, leave it while I sleep then change it again the next morning, till I'm ready to simmer.




Wouldn't this leach out a ton of nutrients from the grains?

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Re: How I Do WBS [Re: TheEaglesGift] * 1
    #20260231 - 07/11/14 09:55 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

The main point I'm trying to make is that you don't need to let uncooked WBS sit more than 30 mins or so, maybe even not that long, because they won't get any dryer.




This is just entirely untrue. With a fan pointed on uncooked grain, and a few stirs per hour, they WILL get entirely dried out in a few hours. I've done it more than once. Uncooked grain that has been thoroughly dried in the strainer, I find is too dry for a spawn run. I often times leave mine somewhat damp like you do, but I have dried them entirely in the strainer before and gone on to have success with it.

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Re: How I Do WBS [Re: SpitballJedi]
    #20260938 - 07/12/14 12:48 AM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

SpitballJedi said:
Measuring the water content of the grain should be enough of an experiment. If there is no significant difference in water content of the grain, then there should be no significant difference in yields, all else being equal.

Besides, one of the advantages of the no cook over your method is that I don't have to nurse a batch of WBS. I can put it in water before work and drain it when I get home.

At this point, I'm just gonna agree to disagree with you and move on with what I do. If the experiment I lined out is not good enough for you , then I won't bother because I don't care enough do it just for me.





If you are doing 2 mono tubs it would be interesting to see how an isolate works with the 2 different methods.  Im a couple of transfers short of an isolate(No comments please:dumblol:)  When I get there I will try a comparable grow and log it.

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Re: How I Do WBS [Re: SpitballJedi]
    #20261945 - 07/12/14 08:41 AM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

TheEaglesGift said:
It's possible that simmering weakens the cellulose of the grains, allowing for easier digestion.




1.5 hours in a PC at 15psi does more to cook it than the simmer does.


Quote:

TheEaglesGift said:
Quote:

The main point I'm trying to make is that you don't need to let uncooked WBS sit more than 30 mins or so, maybe even not that long, because they won't get any dryer.




This is just entirely untrue. With a fan pointed on uncooked grain, and a few stirs per hour, they WILL get entirely dried out in a few hours. I've done it more than once. Uncooked grain that has been thoroughly dried in the strainer, I find is too dry for a spawn run. I often times leave mine somewhat damp like you do, but I have dried them entirely in the strainer before and gone on to have success with it.




Quote:

SpitballJedi said:
If left out long enough, the water will evaporate due to other climatological reasons, but heat is a catalyst. My house is usually 70-75F in the summer and all my stuff is done indoors. A hot, dry house with fans going may impact results, but likely only minimally.




Of course, blowing a fan directly on the WBS will increase drying rates. But that's not what I do. You don't want your WBS dry before it goes in the PC.

My statement stands as true. I've watched it happen for around 200lbs of WBS prep.

Just a reminder for noobs, I am talking about uncooked WBS, not cooked WBS or rye. You won't need a fan for uncooked WBS because you will likely get it too dry.


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Re: How I Do WBS [Re: SpitballJedi]
    #20264943 - 07/12/14 11:04 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Ok, I did this this tonight with 7 jars.

The jars look too wet for me. And then there's that 2 hour dry time.

I follow RR's rye grain tek but with a 5-6 minute boil. No burst grains.
Perfect moisture. No waiting. I keep turning the WBS until the steam stops
coming off the grains, then I put it in the jars.

I'm going to stick with that. Sorry man. :shrug:


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Re: How I Do WBS [Re: Asura] * 1
    #20265204 - 07/13/14 12:07 AM (10 years, 6 months ago)

If we didn't need to boil grains to hydrate them completely then asians would just soak their rice and drain it to eat it.

Maybe I'm just picky because I had cigarettes put out on my neck and was beaten as an apprentice sushi chef when I made mistakes. I know how to hydrate rice to perfection.

I will always boil. Heat absolutely helps hydrate the grain.

But as far as whether tha helps increase yield I couldn't say. If boiling grain to perfection were a party trick I'd be the guy who get's invited to every weekend blowout.

Sadly it's a lonely, nerdy talent.


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Re: How I Do WBS [Re: elasticaltiger]
    #20265207 - 07/13/14 12:08 AM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

If we didn't need to boil grains to hydrate them completely then asians would just soak their rice and drain it to eat it.




I actually used to do this when I was a raw vegan. It's perfectly possible, ironically.

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Re: How I Do WBS [Re: TheEaglesGift]
    #20265210 - 07/13/14 12:11 AM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

TheEaglesGift said:
Quote:

If we didn't need to boil grains to hydrate them completely then asians would just soak their rice and drain it to eat it.




I actually used to do this when I was a raw vegan. It's perfectly possible, ironically.




Yeah but cooked rice tastes way better than soaked rice.

If mycelium could talk I'm sure it would agree.

Doesn't mean it yields more though.


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Re: How I Do WBS [Re: elasticaltiger]
    #20265311 - 07/13/14 12:42 AM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Cooked rice does taste better to humans. To mycelium? I don't think so.

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Re: How I Do WBS [Re: TheEaglesGift]
    #20265323 - 07/13/14 12:48 AM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

TheEaglesGift said:
Cooked rice does taste better to humans. To mycelium? I don't think so.




There are a few reasns it could be better.  It may be easier for the mycellium to break down the molecules if it has been slightly cooked leaving it more energy to fruit.  Also right in the centre of the grain a simmer beforehand may allow this to absorb slightly more water.  In that case it probalbly would produce more yield.

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Re: How I Do WBS [Re: TheEaglesGift]
    #20265354 - 07/13/14 01:02 AM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

TheEaglesGift said:
Cooked rice does taste better to humans. To mycelium? I don't think so.




Despite the lack of nervous system and dopamine to create a sensation of 'reward'

How can you be so sure? :wink:


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InvisibleTheEaglesGift
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Re: How I Do WBS [Re: elasticaltiger]
    #20265355 - 07/13/14 01:03 AM (10 years, 6 months ago)

:mindblown:

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Re: How I Do WBS [Re: TheEaglesGift] * 1
    #20265462 - 07/13/14 01:48 AM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Edmunter said:
Quote:

TheEaglesGift said:
Cooked rice does taste better to humans. To mycelium? I don't think so.




There are a few reasns it could be better.  It may be easier for the mycellium to break down the molecules if it has been slightly cooked leaving it more energy to fruit.  Also right in the centre of the grain a simmer beforehand may allow this to absorb slightly more water.  In that case it probalbly would produce more yield.



wouldn't matter to me i dunk my spawn:wink:
you guys are talking about what now? how you guys do shit? thats cool and all but this is how spitball does it so take it as is and write your own teks:lol:


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Re: How I Do WBS [Re: cronicr]
    #20265496 - 07/13/14 01:59 AM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Wasn't trying to detract from this tek or derail it, sorry if it seemed that way. I actually do my grains almost the same way as this tek. It's a good tek. :thumbup:

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Re: How I Do WBS [Re: cronicr]
    #20265503 - 07/13/14 02:02 AM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

cronicr said:
Quote:

Edmunter said:
Quote:

TheEaglesGift said:
Cooked rice does taste better to humans. To mycelium? I don't think so.




There are a few reasns it could be better.  It may be easier for the mycellium to break down the molecules if it has been slightly cooked leaving it more energy to fruit.  Also right in the centre of the grain a simmer beforehand may allow this to absorb slightly more water.  In that case it probalbly would produce more yield.



wouldn't matter to me i dunk my spawn;)
you guys are talking about what now? how you guys do shit? thats cool and all but this is how spitball does it so take it as is and write your own teks:lol:




But we were talking about testing it out with the OP.  Might as well discuss the reasons why or why not hey buddy :shrug:

I might have to throw in another 2 tubs of dunked spawn too

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Re: How I Do WBS [Re: Edmunter]
    #20265515 - 07/13/14 02:09 AM (10 years, 6 months ago)

oh yeah no worries there i get that part i was just quoting you about the whole dunking spawn thing, my grains re always plump when i spawn them :thumbup:


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Re: How I Do WBS [Re: cronicr]
    #20265925 - 07/13/14 08:19 AM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Asura said:
Ok, I did this this tonight with 7 jars.

The jars look too wet for me. And then there's that 2 hour dry time.

I follow RR's rye grain tek but with a 5-6 minute boil. No burst grains.
Perfect moisture. No waiting. I keep turning the WBS until the steam stops
coming off the grains, then I put it in the jars.

I'm going to stick with that. Sorry man. :shrug:




No need for apologies. To each their own. But this is WBS and you don't need too wait so long. And yes, they look to wet if you are used to steam evaporating, but they are not too wet.


Quote:

SpitballJedi said:
5) Drain
    After the soak, I pour in to a colander to drain for about 2 hours. I don't rinse it again; it just drains. I shake it up a few times,but that's about it. It doesn't matter really how long you let it drain; all the water that will drain off does so in the first 10-15 minutes.


6) Load in to jars
    After draining a couple hours, load in to jars. The WBS appears wetter than you are used to. That's okay. The extra moisture will be soaked up during sterilizing and then cooling.




In light of this conversation, I realize there may be some confusion, so I changed the OP for clarity. I know what I meant, but I can see how it could be interperated. I have cut out "a couple hours"

Quote:

Edmunter said:
It may be easier for the mycellium to break down the molecules if it has been slightly cooked leaving it more energy to fruit.  Also right in the centre of the grain a simmer beforehand may allow this to absorb slightly more water.  In that case it probalbly would produce more yield.




It will be more than slightly cooked after 90-105 mins in a PC at 15 PSI. Even if there is more water absorption by cooking first, there is no way it is enough to make a difference in yields, especially if you dunk your grains and/or mix with a bulk substrate.

Quote:

cronicr said:
wouldn't matter to me i dunk my spawn;)
you guys are talking about what now? how you guys do shit? thats cool and all but this is how spitball does it so take it as is and write your own teks:lol:




exactly. Thank you. Not every method is going to seem right to everybody.

Quote:

cronicr said:
oh yeah no worries there i get that part i was just quoting you about the whole dunking spawn thing, my grains re always plump when i spawn them :thumbup:




It's all good. Mine are always plump after the dunk too.

Quote:

SpitballJedi said:
At this point, some of you some may be confused. It's been drilled in to your head to boil/simmer/cook your grains so they steam evaporate, the grain absorbs more water, and whatever other logic. This is not Rye Berries. Cooking is not needed. This is a fact.




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Edited by SpitballJedi (07/13/14 08:27 AM)

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Re: How I Do WBS [Re: SpitballJedi]
    #20311219 - 07/22/14 02:12 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I'm following this tek but I can't find any gypsum locally. I just finished my 24 hour soak, but I didn't add any gypsum before the soak obviously.

What does gypsum do and what happens if you don't use any?


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Re: How I Do WBS [Re: Quat]
    #20311272 - 07/22/14 02:30 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Quat said:
I'm following this tek but I can't find any gypsum locally. I just finished my 24 hour soak, but I didn't add any gypsum before the soak obviously.

What does gypsum do and what happens if you don't use any?




It helps prevent the grains of sticking and gives the mycelium some additional nutrients(sulfur and calcium).

Nothing will happen if you don't use any. It's not critically needed.

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Re: How I Do WBS [Re: TheEaglesGift]
    #20311293 - 07/22/14 02:38 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

:whathesaid:


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Re: How I Do WBS [Re: Quat]
    #20311343 - 07/22/14 02:57 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Quat said:
I'm following this tek but I can't find any gypsum locally. I just finished my 24 hour soak, but I didn't add any gypsum before the soak obviously.

What does gypsum do and what happens if you don't use any?




You should definitely source some gypsum for your substrates though. 5 percent dry volume. It's amazing stuff, nutritionally speaking.

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Re: How I Do WBS [Re: TheEaglesGift]
    #20311736 - 07/22/14 04:54 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I just break up drywall offcuts from my construction sites to get my gypsum.


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Re: How I Do WBS [Re: TheEaglesGift]
    #20814160 - 11/09/14 01:07 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I know this is super old but it got me really curious, I wonder if he meant 2 oz dry or wet? I'd assume dry but I guess you never know :confused: Either way I still don't see it making much of a difference.

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Re: How I Do WBS [Re: SpitballJedi]
    #21205095 - 01/31/15 12:08 AM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

SpitballJedi said:
Quote:

36fuckin5 said:
I've done the tests myself. Simmering my grain always gets me more fruits.

If you're getting a lot of burst grains, you're probably boiling and not actually simmering. Most people don't know how to hold a proper simmer compared to a low boil. 5 bubbles per minute or so is all you want.

I'm not saying this way won't work, I'm just saying it's not 100% optimal. Yes, perfectly hydrated is perfectly hydrated, but you can get more water in that grain by simmering, be it WBS, rye, whatever. Keeping your soak water hot helps a lot, too.




That's where your wrong. It is 100% optimal. The water stuck to the WBS after draining seems to be the right amount of water for proper hydration.

WBS, when compared to rye, has a greater surface area to volume ratio. This may be why it can be done with WBS but not so ideal with rye.

You may be right. You might be getting more water in to the WBS by simmering, but that doesn't mean skipping it is less optimal. I'm confident that the difference in water is measured in the low gram area and has no measurable impact on yields, at least when considering other water sources that come in to the equation during the cultivation process.

Just to see, because I'm guessing, I will prepare WBS for 2 monos. I will weigh the grain so they are equal and use a typical amount. I will simmer one batch and PC, and no cook and PC the other. After they are cool, I will dump them and weigh them again. This will tell me the water difference. Sound reasonable?

After a couple hundred pounds each of no cook WBS and boiling rye, I have seen no difference in jar colonization times or yields. Maybe the equalizer is the fact that I dunk my grains after colonizing.

Although your logic seems reasonable, sometimes reality flies in the face of logic. I'm not trying to convince anyone to stop cooking WBS. I'm just offering an alternative that works equally well.





I'm really curious if you (or anyone) did this test, above in red.  I posted pics of my WBS jars earlier because I thought they weren't plump enough after a simmer and 90 minutes in a PC and you (SpitballJedi) linked me to this thread. I am still learning, and have a serious thirst for knowledge, so this test seems very interesting to me.

Sorry for resurrecting an old thread. . . but not really because some noobs might stumble upon it who otherwise might never have found it and it seems like a good tek (with some good debate as well).


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Re: How I Do WBS [Re: OppiumNitrates]
    #21206040 - 01/31/15 09:27 AM (9 years, 11 months ago)

It's all good. Asking a question or offering to do a test is a perfectly reasonable reason to resurrect a thread, especially for a Tek thread.

Let me know what you find. Even if the no-cook has less water, I predict the difference is negligible when compared to the grand scheme of things, like as a percentage of missing water once spawned to bulk substrate.


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Re: How I Do WBS [Re: SpitballJedi]
    #21206662 - 01/31/15 12:27 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Actually I was asking if you ever got around to doing that test. . . . Guess not.
:slowreaction:

I will give it a try but this is my first bulk grow so I'm not going to try it until I do a few bulks normal.


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Re: How I Do WBS [Re: OppiumNitrates]
    #21207705 - 01/31/15 05:12 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Even if the no-cook has less water, I predict the difference is negligible when compared to the grand scheme of things, like as a percentage of missing water once spawned to bulk substrate.




After prepping grain in every conceivable way for years I'd have to agree with this.

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Re: No Cook WBS [Re: SpitballJedi]
    #23578154 - 08/25/16 11:43 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

SpitballJedi said:
[url=/forums/showflat.php/Number/19140341#19140341]
    After rinsing, cover with hot tap water. I let the water get good and hot and fill the pot to about 3 inches above the WBS. Then, I sprinkle about 3tbls of gypsum on it. Don't mix it in because the gypsum will just settle to the bottom. I let soak 12-24 hours.





Hi, total noob here, currently doing my second batch of WBS for g2g. I feel these questions need to be asked.

Oops. I misread that and used freshly boiled water instead. I wonder if that's alright.

Also, 3tbsp of gypsum applies to what weight of WBS? is that 3tbsp to whatever amount? I can't find gypsum and just used 3tbsp lime / kilo of red millet for the reason  better than nothing since I read that I can getaway without gypsum. I'll give it a 24 hr soak.

Also, I could only find pure red millet or pure white millet and can't find a mix with various seeds so I'm wondering if the water retention capacity will severly differ and if I need to make adjustments.

Thank you all.

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Re: No Cook WBS [Re: tropics23to33c]
    #23613092 - 09/04/16 10:54 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I used this tek how does this jar look after PC'ing it?



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Re: No Cook WBS [Re: TrippyJuice] * 1
    #23613424 - 09/05/16 12:55 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

caliko27 said:
I used this tek how does this jar look after PC'ing it?






Looks good.

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Re: No Cook WBS [Re: TheEaglesGift] * 1
    #23613489 - 09/05/16 01:30 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Thx man very easy tek.  Makes wbs my new fave substrate.


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Re: No Cook WBS [Re: TrippyJuice]
    #23613633 - 09/05/16 03:07 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

All grains are pretty easy to prep. Oats are even easier than wbs IMO, you can boil the hell out of them and they will not burst. You'd be hard pressed to overcook and burst a batch of oats, I can't say the same for WBS.

I use the grain that's cheapest, not easiest, since they're all pretty easy anyways. That said, I stay away from grains like popcorn which don't have many inoculation points and are known to have bacterial endospore issues. I don't care how cheap popcorn is, I don't want to use it.


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Re: No Cook WBS [Re: TheEaglesGift]
    #23614494 - 09/05/16 11:29 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Thx for your input.  Much appreciated.  Knocked my wbs up is morning. 


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Re: No Cook WBS [Re: SpitballJedi]
    #23614648 - 09/05/16 12:21 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I don't know how this slipped by me. Thanks SpitballJedi for taking the time to write this up.

On my next run of red Milo I am going to use this method.


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Re: No Cook WBS [Re: Psychedel.EXE]
    #23614949 - 09/05/16 02:13 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Yes very much appreciated Jedi.  You rock


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Re: No Cook WBS [Re: TrippyJuice]
    #23615618 - 09/05/16 06:05 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I just realized I'm talking about cooking grains in a no cook grain prep tek. Sorry about that. :facepalm3:

This is a good tek, I prepped my grain this way for a long time when I was starting out. Simmering scared me, I was afraid to get burst grains. At some point I got over this odd fear and now cook my grains. If you can cook food, you can cook grains.

There are a lot of ways to approach grain prep, my advice is to try out a few and see what works best for you. No ways are better than the other, the best way is what brings results and is easiest/most enjoyable for you. The only bad ways are the ways that don't work.

This is a great tek for beginners. Hard to fuck up.

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Re: How I Do WBS [Re: OppiumNitrates]
    #24170303 - 03/17/17 03:50 PM (7 years, 9 months ago)

Did you get around to doing said test?

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Re: How I Do WBS [Re: Shrewmdoom]
    #24170408 - 03/17/17 04:23 PM (7 years, 9 months ago)

Any grain prepared in a way that works for you is plenty good enough.

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Re: How I Do WBS [Re: bodhisatta]
    #24172509 - 03/18/17 02:54 PM (7 years, 9 months ago)

Just followed this tek, kept all the sunflower seeds in though :grin:

Kinda a pain in the ass when you're trying to fill 20+ jars


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Re: How I Do WBS [Re: JewishLawyer]
    #24172522 - 03/18/17 02:59 PM (7 years, 9 months ago)

sunflowers work just fine. i even made a cake out of all the shit i normally take out of the wbs blend

its just ugly looking imo

but even left in, it works fine. just personal preference.

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Re: How I Do WBS [Re: mushboy]
    #24172572 - 03/18/17 03:17 PM (7 years, 9 months ago)

yeah, I'm just trying to produce as little waste as possible, and they aren't hurting anything, they may even provide extra nutrients


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Re: How I Do WBS [Re: JewishLawyer]
    #24172581 - 03/18/17 03:21 PM (7 years, 9 months ago)

nictin?? or something like that???? is in sunflower seeds and its good for shrooms i think?...but im the cultivator
and i really like the way a nice, sfs free jar of wbs looks.

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Re: How I Do WBS [Re: mushboy]
    #24174061 - 03/19/17 07:02 AM (7 years, 9 months ago)

Thanks for the tek SpitballJedi!

I followed it last night but had the lid on the entire time and now it has a yeasty smell to it.

Should I discard it or load it for PC?


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Re: How I Do WBS [Re: Rickie]
    #24174244 - 03/19/17 09:13 AM (7 years, 9 months ago)

It will have a slightly fermented smell. Soaked wbs has a unique smell but it shouldn't stink.
But it is kind of funky, you get used to it. Also after its PCed it will smell up the house....slightly.

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Re: How I Do WBS [Re: mushboy]
    #24174296 - 03/19/17 09:40 AM (7 years, 9 months ago)

This is basically what Mushboy told me to do, rinse, drain for a few minutes, load the jars up.

I've only done this once, but I've never been happier with the consistency and moisture level of my grains. They look fantastic this way.

Try this. It's worth it.


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Re: How I Do WBS [Re: Moabfighter]
    #24174390 - 03/19/17 10:15 AM (7 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Moabfighter said:
This is basically what Mushboy told me to do, rinse, drain for a few minutes, load the jars up.

I've only done this once, but I've never been happier with the consistency and moisture level of my grains. They look fantastic this way.

Try this. It's worth it.




with all the shit that can complicate your grow, 24hr soak wbs allows me to focus on other shit i need to
learn first. after i master growing and all, then ill go back and play with my grain prep.

but trying to learn mushcult and having a vector with your grain prep is really, really frustrating.
i love knowing 24hr works. and the grower just rinses and soaks. cant figure that out? stick with pf.

just my opinion:thumbup: rock on.

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Re: How I Do WBS [Re: mushboy]
    #24174810 - 03/19/17 01:09 PM (7 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

mushboy said:
Quote:

Moabfighter said:
This is basically what Mushboy told me to do, rinse, drain for a few minutes, load the jars up.

I've only done this once, but I've never been happier with the consistency and moisture level of my grains. They look fantastic this way.

Try this. It's worth it.




with all the shit that can complicate your grow, 24hr soak wbs allows me to focus on other shit i need to
learn first. after i master growing and all, then ill go back and play with my grain prep.

but trying to learn mushcult and having a vector with your grain prep is really, really frustrating.
i love knowing 24hr works. and the grower just rinses and soaks. cant figure that out? stick with pf.

just my opinion:thumbup: rock on.





I forgot to include the soak in my post. I soak as well. But yeah, follow what Mushboy says on grain prep. Works well.


--------------------
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OfflineRickie
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Registered: 03/01/17
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Re: How I Do WBS [Re: mushboy]
    #24182307 - 03/22/17 04:26 AM (7 years, 9 months ago)

Thank you :thumbup:


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Offlineaskobasko
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Re: How I Do WBS [Re: Rickie]
    #24224865 - 04/07/17 07:36 AM (7 years, 9 months ago)

So any kind of birds seeds can be inside?

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InvisiblemushboyMDiscord
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Re: How I Do WBS [Re: askobasko]
    #24224974 - 04/07/17 08:33 AM (7 years, 9 months ago)

inside the bag? like the variety of grain?

find a songbird blend. they can be more expensive but have fewer sunflowers and other junk.

its for fancy birds. ive also used straight sunflower seeds. it works but it cant hold water for shit.

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Offlinemercaba
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Re: No Cook WBS [Re: SpitballJedi]
    #24895495 - 01/06/18 11:40 PM (7 years, 11 days ago)

what benefit does the gypsum provide?

thanks!

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InvisibleAyePlus
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Re: No Cook WBS [Re: mercaba]
    #24895530 - 01/07/18 12:01 AM (7 years, 11 days ago)

Quote:

mercaba said:
what benefit does the gypsum provide?

thanks!



https://www.shroomery.org/forums/dosearch.php?terms=benefits+gypsum

The search engine is your friend


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Offlinemercaba
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Re: No Cook WBS [Re: SpitballJedi]
    #24944473 - 01/26/18 06:55 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

greetings!

I followed this tek to the best of my ability but ran into some trouble.  Hoping someone can shed some light...

1.  I ended up with sterilized wide mouth pint jars, each with 4 3/32" holes and SFDs like described here:
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/20048747/

2.  jars inoculated with B+ spores from spore syringe (purchased from an established sponsor), and now it's been 16 days and no mycelium growth. 

jars kept in approx. 74 degrees Fahrenheit room with some indirect daylight.

The WBS seems a bit dry IMO.  When I move the jars around, the WBS grains seem to all move independently - no stickiness.

any ideas?

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OfflinecronicrMFacebook
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Re: No Cook WBS [Re: mercaba]
    #24944477 - 01/26/18 06:57 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Spores are a bitch


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OfflineAsuraS
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Re: No Cook WBS [Re: cronicr]
    #24944682 - 01/26/18 08:07 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

cronicr said:
Spores are a bitch




I just did this for the first time 3 weeks ago and had shit results
and I started with an agar wedge. Not sure why, because
the jars had perfect moisture content. Everything was by the book.
Temp is the only thing I can think of that may be off (new house is
cold as fuck even with the heat on).


--------------------
Cultivating Panaeolus cyanescens


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Offlinemercaba
Registered: 01/06/18
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Re: No Cook WBS [Re: Asura]
    #24945807 - 01/27/18 10:41 AM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Asura said:
I just did this for the first time 3 weeks ago and had shit results
and I started with an agar wedge. Not sure why, because
the jars had perfect moisture content. Everything was by the book.
Temp is the only thing I can think of that may be off (new house is
cold as fuck even with the heat on).




What do you consider perfect moisture content?

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OfflineAsuraS
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Re: No Cook WBS [Re: mercaba]
    #24946034 - 01/27/18 12:32 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Perfect: WBS does not leave wet spots on a piece of toilet paper.

Edit: Forgot to mention that I sacrificed a jar to check the
moisture. Everything really did seem perfect.


--------------------
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Edited by Asura (01/27/18 12:39 PM)

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InvisibleJHOVA
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Re: No Cook WBS [Re: Asura]
    #24946044 - 01/27/18 12:35 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Just so you know if you do foomans method 30-60 minute hot soak, you can load damp and after a pc cycle it will absorb more water in the following 2 days.

Works great for me!


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OfflineAsuraS
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Re: No Cook WBS [Re: JHOVA]
    #24946057 - 01/27/18 12:41 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Foo's method is what I normally use.


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InvisibleSpitballJedi
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Re: No Cook WBS [Re: Asura]
    #24949033 - 01/28/18 03:36 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Spores can be a pain and it can take 3 weeks for signs of growth. Your spores can also be dead. Going spores to grain can be a contamination risk because even the best spores will have some level of contamination.

You didn't mention if you did or not, but don't bother to shake the jars right after inoculating with spores.

Every method I've ever tried has occasionally been dead in the water when using spores.


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OfflineSnydaz
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Re: How I Do WBS [Re: SpitballJedi]
    #24950586 - 01/28/18 11:14 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

How much gypsum for 20lbs wbs?

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OfflinehamloafM
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Re: How I Do WBS [Re: Snydaz]
    #24950698 - 01/28/18 11:20 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

3-5% by volume of dry materials.


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Offlinemercaba
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Re: No Cook WBS [Re: SpitballJedi]
    #24953568 - 01/30/18 12:04 AM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

SpitballJedi said:
Spores can be a pain and it can take 3 weeks for signs of growth. Your spores can also be dead. Going spores to grain can be a contamination risk because even the best spores will have some level of contamination.

You didn't mention if you did or not, but don't bother to shake the jars right after inoculating with spores.

Every method I've ever tried has occasionally been dead in the water when using spores.




thanks, SpitballJedi.  I'm pretty sure my WBS was a bit too dry.  That being said, it's good to know that it can take 3 weeks.  No, I didn't shake right after inoculation.

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Invisiblethelanzii

Registered: 11/13/12
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Re: No Cook WBS [Re: mercaba]
    #25225343 - 05/24/18 11:16 AM (6 years, 7 months ago)

used this tek today with walmarts economy mix wbs

used 10 quarts of hard boiling water to 7 quarts of wbs

soaked for 3 hours

when i was straining i cracked one open with my nail seemed still pretty hard on the inside and not a whole ton of moisture

hoping for the best

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Offlinepixelpopper
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Re: No Cook WBS [Re: thelanzii]
    #25225435 - 05/24/18 11:59 AM (6 years, 7 months ago)

I don't boil my water at all, I just soak the seed. Sometimes I will use hot water

As long as they soak for 12-24 hours, you'll be good moisture content wise

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Offlinepixelpopper
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Re: No Cook WBS [Re: pixelpopper]
    #25225446 - 05/24/18 12:05 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

Just reread and saw you did a 3 hour soak.. but you should be good since you used boiling water

Don't know if you've seen this thread, but great info on various times for soaking

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/24764677#24764677

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Offlineweedjee
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Re: No Cook WBS [Re: SpitballJedi]
    #26049050 - 06/12/19 08:55 PM (5 years, 7 months ago)

Thanks for all of the great info!! Exactly what I was looking for. Bookmarked!

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Offlineguest1
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Re: No Cook WBS [Re: weedjee] * 1
    #26049226 - 06/12/19 11:38 PM (5 years, 7 months ago)

Let me summarize this for everyone.

The less hydrated the grain, the wetter you PC it.
The more hydrated the grain, the dryer you PC it.

(Method 1)
Dry, non-soaked, non-simmered WBS can be PC'd with water, like the MGME video about Rye Grain.
The water ratio, I'm not sure of.
Downside: Starches released while hydrating, may clump grain.

(Method 2)
Soak, no-simmer, then PC it.
Depending on how long you soak and at what temp, depends on how wet the grains should be added to jars to PC.
Downside: takes time, but you can get the water content right and minimize sticky starches.

(Method 3)
Soak + Simmer, then PC it.
If you do a long soak and a full simmer, you will want to drain your WBS well.
Downside: takes time, but you can get the water content right and minimize sticky starches.

Edited by guest1 (06/18/19 05:55 PM)

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Offlinebunsie
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Re: No Cook WBS [Re: guest1]
    #26991577 - 10/18/20 02:35 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Thanks for the great info

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InvisibleMtbromo
The Bro


Registered: 08/27/20
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Re: No Cook WBS [Re: SpitballJedi]
    #27541186 - 11/12/21 11:07 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

thanks


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Offlinedtraub
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Registered: 05/19/22
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Re: No Cook WBS [Re: SpitballJedi]
    #27803755 - 06/03/22 05:48 AM (2 years, 7 months ago)

Would this work just the same if you are using grain bags?  Would it damage the bag if you mix/shake it up after the PC? These would be 4-5lb, .2 micron filter bags sealed before PC. Thanks for the help

Edited by dtraub (06/03/22 07:35 AM)

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