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OfflineImmortal Jellyfish
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Yikes...public speaking phobia...
    #20019929 - 05/21/14 12:33 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Hi Shroomery. I'll start by saying I'm just a 22 year old man trying to mature as best I can in this world where we are given only a short time to live, love, and touch the lives of the people we care about.


I've had this monkey on my back for way too fucking long. Ever since the fourth grade I've tried my best to avoid many social situations and interaction with groups of people. There's no doubt that this has cost me many friendships, relationships, and fun times.


So, who's got what I have? A high level of terror for verbally speaking/ reading aloud in front of a group of people. My phobia is so bad that even a small group of people (5-10) is enough to start my heart racing, and I feel myself breathing very shallow, if at all when the fear hits.


Has anyone ever been to a toastmasters meeting? Maybe a community college speaking class? Would you recommend it?


Has anyone been able to find a solution to this problem without going to classes?


I don't read much. Maybe reading on a daily basis will help?


I'm at a loss, and any advice would be worth it's weight in gold to me.


Thank you


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OfflineCosmicLion
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Re: Yikes...public speaking phobia... [Re: Immortal Jellyfish]
    #20020001 - 05/21/14 12:53 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Take Beta-Blockers 1-2 hours before you go up...

https://www.google.com/#q=best+beta+blocker+for+stage+fright

Adrenaline activates your adrenaline Beta-Receptors and gives you that nervousness, fight-or-flight response, sweaty palms and all the other symptoms related specifically to stage freight.

Beta-Blockers block the adrenaline from activating in your BRAIN and in your HEART... and can REALLY help people who suffer from stage freight.

Some beta-blockers work very well for anxiety in GENERAL and are non-addictive non-narcotic substances.

Certain ones also stimulate RADICAL vivid dreaming :strokebeard: :grin:

Talk to a local cardiologist or psychiatrist about it, they should be able to hook you right up. Your primary care doctor may even hook you up straight.

As a backup, make sure to gather + print out some literature to bring in to the Doc just in case. Docs don't know it all and wont tell you they don't know, so if they give you any hassle about it at least you have your literature to back you up.

Again, unlike other anxiety meds, they create NO high, are NOT narcotic and NOT addictive so getting them shouldn't be an issue as they aren't drugs of abuse.

:bigjoint: :heart: :super:


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:peace:    :peace:

  Earth's Essence

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OfflineCosmicLion
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Re: Yikes...public speaking phobia... [Re: CosmicLion]
    #20020017 - 05/21/14 12:56 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Again, after re-reading your post...

They are prescribed specifically to help with that heart-racing issue...

They REALLY help prevent that adrenaline response which can make a HUGE difference in that elevated heart rate.

:crazy2:


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:peace:    :peace:

  Earth's Essence

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OfflineImmortal Jellyfish
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Re: Yikes...public speaking phobia... [Re: CosmicLion]
    #20020082 - 05/21/14 01:17 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

CosmicLion said:
Again, after re-reading your post...

They are prescribed specifically to help with that heart-racing issue...

They REALLY help prevent that adrenaline response which can make a HUGE difference in that elevated heart rate.

:crazy2:




Thank you for your advice CosmicLion


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OfflineCosmicLion
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Re: Yikes...public speaking phobia... [Re: Immortal Jellyfish]
    #20020195 - 05/21/14 01:46 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

I know people here tend to have a lot of anti-pharma sentiment but beta-blockers are relatively gentle... and extremely effective...

You don't have to take them regularly, can use them as needed before a public speaking or social event...

All in all, they work better then sedating substances (like herbal stuff such as Kava, Skullcap or Valerian) because they don't sedate you and will keep your mind 100% in tact to perform at your best...

:super:


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:peace:    :peace:

  Earth's Essence

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InvisibleMr.GuessWork
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Re: Yikes...public speaking phobia... [Re: Immortal Jellyfish]
    #20020204 - 05/21/14 01:48 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Can you pinpoint what exactly makes you afraid? Have you ever done any public performances or anything like that?

I was sort of afraid to speak publicly (just a little nervous about it really) until I had to improvise a dance in a public performance with a bunch of other dancers who were more skilled than I was. That made me pretty fearless. After that I spoke in front of classes as a teacher for college science labs.

The fear is really a fear of public performance, not just speaking(at least for me), and doing it for a while definitely makes it easier in the long run. The worst thing that can happen is that you make an ass out of yourself in front of an audience, which I have done on several occasions, and it's something that you can easily recover from if you relax. I would recommend you try something where you have to perform or speak publicly many times. I've never taken a public speaking class, but if you do, ask the professor how many speeches you'll give. If it's just 2 or 3, you probably won't get enough experience to overcome your fear. I'd also recommend dance classes or acting classes or something like that. They're kind of fun once you get rid of the nerves, and you'll be performing for and with other people who are generally pretty accepting.

Edit: I forgot to add that you should prepare beforehand as best you can, so you can be confident that you're doing you're best while you're performing. Having to improvise for first time in front of a crowd when you're already scared shitless is traumatizing.

Edited by Mr.GuessWork (05/21/14 01:51 PM)

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OfflineCosmicLion
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Re: Yikes...public speaking phobia... [Re: Mr.GuessWork]
    #20020228 - 05/21/14 01:52 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Mr.GuessWork said:
acting classes




Fantastic recommendation...


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:peace:    :peace:

  Earth's Essence

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Offlinelifeiswhatyoumake
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Re: Yikes...public speaking phobia... [Re: Immortal Jellyfish]
    #20020618 - 05/21/14 03:17 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

I would rather some one not have to resort to using drugs (beta-blockers) to alleviate their fear of public speaking, but instead just practice.

Practice makes perfect.

You are thinking too much about it Immortal Jellyfish.

All you have to do is take a deep breathe and talk slowly.

Reading daily is not going to help you get over this fear of speaking to groups of people.  Only practice will help.

Once again, once you start talking to groups then it only gets easier ever time from that point on.

I would recommend you take a class on public speaking.


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:goat: :goat: :goat: :goat: :goat: :goat:  I dropped a cheesy pop dance track "Be With Me, Baby": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wezFSNS7JDI :goat: :goat: :goat: :goat: :goat:

Edited by lifeiswhatyoumake (05/21/14 03:17 PM)

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Offlinethinwhiteduke42
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Re: Yikes...public speaking phobia... [Re: Immortal Jellyfish]
    #20021464 - 05/21/14 06:14 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Just go out and do it.  I used to have the same fear and just said fuck it and went out and did stand up comedy.  I've done stand up like 10 times.  Some have gone well and some I've bombed horribly.  It's never as bad as you think it's going to be.  Also, I would look up rational emotive imagery and try that for a while.  It should help you.

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OfflineImmortal Jellyfish
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Re: Yikes...public speaking phobia... [Re: Mr.GuessWork]
    #20022304 - 05/21/14 09:09 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Mr.GuessWork said:
Can you pinpoint what exactly makes you afraid? Have you ever done any public performances or anything like that?




I remember the day that I bombed my first presentation in elementary school. I was the first person in the class to be asked to read my paper and I stuttered through it. I had shallow breathing and I repeatedly lost my place while I was reading, which only made me look stupid AND insecure.

I cannot pinpoint exactly what is so frightening to me about speaking/reading aloud in front of people.



I really fucking don't want to, but I know I HAVE to do a public speaking class now. Thank you guys


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Offlinelifeiswhatyoumake
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Re: Yikes...public speaking phobia... [Re: Immortal Jellyfish]
    #20023111 - 05/22/14 12:37 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

I've stuttered my entire life, it's just the way my brain is wired.
At times it is embarrassing.
Over time I have just worked through it by not being afraid or embarrassed and have slowly developed myself to be quite a "normal" talker.
I stutter even when talking to one other person sometimes, so imagine how bad it can get when I talk in front of a group.
Just take deep breathes and talk slowly and everything will be alright :heart:


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:goat: :goat: :goat: :goat: :goat: :goat:  I dropped a cheesy pop dance track "Be With Me, Baby": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wezFSNS7JDI :goat: :goat: :goat: :goat: :goat:

Edited by lifeiswhatyoumake (05/22/14 12:38 AM)

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OfflineImmortal Jellyfish
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Re: Yikes...public speaking phobia... [Re: lifeiswhatyoumake]
    #20023802 - 05/22/14 07:25 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Thanks lifeiswhatyoumake

I appreciate your reply. Everything will be fine!

:mushroom2:


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OfflineLion
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Re: Yikes...public speaking phobia... [Re: Immortal Jellyfish]
    #20024131 - 05/22/14 09:21 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

I had the same intense fear and symptoms that you've described.  I would turn beat red when giving any kind of presentation, stammer, mumble, be completely unable to make eye contact, and forget large parts of what I was saying.  It was really noticeable and I always got sympathetic looks when I finished a presentation.  It got so bad that I flunked some early college courses because I couldn't bring myself to give a presentation.  I just sat in my room and smoked weed instead.

I got over it without taking any classes specifically for public speaking or speech therapy.  But classes were involved: late in my college career I started studying a foreign language, and had to give tons of presentations in that foreign language.  It was so overwhelming that I had to develop a strategy, and that strategy was to prepare thoroughly, rehearse, and internally recite mantras before speaking  (repeating the name of the Hindu God "Ram" was pacifying for me - don't know if it would be much use if you have no cultural/psychological context for using mantra.)

I think aging in general helps, too.  You lose some of the awkwardness of youth, physically and psychologically.  You gain more perspective on how little it really matters to mess up a little giving a speech or presentation.  If you give it a good try and attempt to be informative, interesting, or funny, people will respect you and think well of you.  If it's in a class presentation context, most people will probably just be thinking nervously about their own preparation.

Quitting smoking weed definitely helped me too.  Even though I would never smoke weed on the day of a public speaking event, if I was smoking weed I would still bring that self-consciousness and doubt with me when I spoke.  Quitting weed took away a layer of anxiety, and helped me progress toward being a clearer speaker.

Since finishing college I've taught classes of engineers, executives, university students, you name it, up to 30 people in a class, for hours on end.  I still get nervous, but it always subsides once I'm in the flow.  I've even given impromptu, long-ish, funny wedding speeches, public toasts, etc.  It doesn't sound like a big accomplishment, but if you suffer from that crippling fear, it's almost unimaginable to picture yourself doing it.

So, you can do it.  Best of luck.


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“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”

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Offlinemisterjingo
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Re: Yikes...public speaking phobia... [Re: Lion]
    #20024366 - 05/22/14 10:32 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

I suffered from this too, and even though I could trace it back to it's origin in high school, it didn't help reduce it's grip on me.
It was so bad at times that even speaking in front of 3-4 people in a formal setting was enough to induce terrible fear, dry mouth, and shaking and sometimes I'd resort to having a drink before a big presentation.

I tried toast masters, and to be honest, I didn't really stick if for a decent length of time. They seemed like a fantastic organisation who would be totally supportive of your fears, but I guess it was too much for me at that time, and the nearest group was a hassle to get to.

I now give regular presentations to large regional meetings and occasional conferences. I'd be a liar if I said there wasn't some nervousness before the presentations I now give, but once I get going, I actually enjoy it.

The way I overcome the fear was through desensitisation. I pretty much forced myself to talk in group settings and in meetings, it took a couple of years, but the fear did lessen. It just took time and determination. Don't beat yourself about having this phobia, just accept it and make a plan to overcome it.

Something that did really help is meditation. Once I had learnt to meditate I would do breathing exercises before any presentations just to get a handle on things.

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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: Yikes...public speaking phobia... [Re: Immortal Jellyfish]
    #20024498 - 05/22/14 11:02 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

A community college speech class is probably the most readily available method to deal with this issue. If you take other courses they may have you give presentations. The speech class will give you a good grounding for that so it's better to take speech early on.

    Almost everyone has had public speaking phobias. Just doing it is how most people get over it.   

    In grad school I was a teaching assistant, with sections of 12-30 students. At first I was bad, but over time I got confident and good at it. I did retain one physical symptom of anxiety. I frequently paced left and right in front of the class. You can't do that if you're giving a speech. It's harder to stand still, for me at least. I also had to have a can of pop for each 50 minute course. I had one class in 5 years without the can of pop, and it was a horrible cottonmouth experience

    But it's all relative. One year me and 3 other T.A.'s  are working for the department head who was teaching a huge lecture class with 3 or 4 hundred students. He had us each do one lecture in the big hall. An hour after I finished I still felt like I was going to have a heart attack.

    The big thing is feeling comfortable with what you are speaking about. If you have to give a speech, practice it in your head, then practice it out loud several times. Learn to use brief basic notes. Then it will go OK.

    Everything becomes normal after you've done it a few times.


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"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,

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InvisibleMr.GuessWork
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Re: Yikes...public speaking phobia... [Re: Brian Jones]
    #20025126 - 05/22/14 01:46 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Brian Jones said:

...

I did retain one physical symptom of anxiety. I frequently paced left and right in front of the class. You can't do that if you're giving a speech. It's harder to stand still, for me at least. I also had to have a can of pop for each 50 minute course. I had one class in 5 years without the can of pop, and it was a horrible cottonmouth experience

    ...

    The big thing is feeling comfortable with what you are speaking about. If you have to give a speech, practice it in your head, then practice it out loud several times. Learn to use brief basic notes. Then it will go OK.

    Everything becomes normal after you've done it a few times.





I personally like to see some movement when people are speaking: maybe not nervous pacing, but walking around, using hand gestures for explanation, etc. That kind of stuff is all fair game unless you've got one of those stuffy professors who thinks you should move nothing but your lips while giving a speech. It's generally a good idea to use natural gestures and those kind of things. It gets people's attention and makes you seem like your comfortably trying to communicate rather than just trying to give a formal speech. In productive communication you want to be relaxed and you want your audience to be relaxed.

It's also a good idea to have a drink. Take a quick break while your speaking to stop and enjoy that drink. Maybe even make a yum sound after you have the drink, or make a comment on how tasty it was. Doing something so casual while your speaking will instill confidence in you and your audience.

Overpreparing is also a great idea. You want to know the subject matter cold. You should be able to talk about it spontaneously if it comes up in conversation. Make sure you know it well enough to respond to questions without feeling foolish. It's okay not to know how to answer some questions, but be sure that your comfortable with explaining that you don't know how to answer the question, and don't just blow the question off. Try your best to give a useful response to the question, something like " that's a great question. I'm not sure how to answer it, but it might be related to this ...(relate it to something). Is that helpful? ".

I would advise against memorizing a speech or rehearsing one word for word. Trying to do that is a great way to put yourself in a panic. The only speech I ever royally fucked up was one where I tried to recite a poem from memory. When you forget the words in one line, what do you do next? You panic, and then you panic hard. Instead of memorizing a speech, get a set of bullet points, and make sure you can talk about each of them at the level of detail you want. If you forget to make a point, and you remember it later, just say "Oops, I forgot to make this point earlier. It's important, so let me make it now.", and then relate that point to the other one you were making. You might also want to work out some transitions in your head beforehand, so you can go from point to point in a logical manner.

I basically think of a speech as a conversation where one guy does most of the talking, and I like it when the audience is engaged enough to participate in the talking. It's way more fun and easy going when people aren't just staring at you like a bunch of overwhelmed college freshmen (which is what your audience will most likely be if you take a class). Talking with people is easy, but talking at people feels just awful. When I look into an audience and see a bunch of blank stares, I stop and say something like " You guys look confused. Did I go too fast or skip something? Are there any questions? Come on, give me some feed back." I say that last sentence playfully and with a grin to encourage participation. It's okay to tease you audience a bit too if you can do it without being disrespectful. Also make sure that your don't rush when you're speaking. It's a common thing to do when are new to speaking and nervous. Talk at the pace that you would talk at  if you were talking to a friend, and slow down a bit and pause more often when you're going through something kind of complex since people need more time to think about what you're saying. Also, take a pause every so often to assess your audience.

There are several techniques you can use to overcome nervousness. Have you ever seen the comedian Louis Black? One way not to be intimidated by an audience is to be angry with them instead (not during the speech like Black does for comedic purposes, but during your preparations). If you get nervous while practicing, try yelling some ridiculous angry stuff at your imaginary audience, "You stupid fucks think you can intimidate me?! ME!!?". Watch some Lewis Black as part of your prep. You can also try laughing obnoxiously and dismissively at your imaginary audience. These kind of techniques help with the nervousness because they give you control over your emotions. They also let you know that you have some control over the audience's emotions as well, and fear of your lack of control over your audience's response is probably what's eating at you anyway. Fuck those bastards in the audience! Concern for their opinions is beneath you!!!!!
AHA HA HA HA!!!!    (<- That's supposed to be maniacal laughter. Audiences love it. :grin:)

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OfflineZardos
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Re: Yikes...public speaking phobia... [Re: Immortal Jellyfish]
    #20025378 - 05/22/14 02:55 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

im 23 and Im on the same boat, but im improving a a lot.

Since I came to this country at 6, I was the kid waiting for my mom under a tree alone while the other kids played. I didn't seem to "get it" when it came to social interactions and had few friends. And for most of my life I would say I've felt isolated and socially inept.

I have a stutter that I've been (and still am to a far less extent) insecure about.

I took a speech class in college and it was the most terrifying thing I have EVER done in my life. On my first presentation, my stuttering flared up like crazy, my hands and mouth were shaking, and at the end the teacher says "That was nice but you should of talked about your stuttering" in front of the whole class. At that point I felt like I was going to breakdown crying.

My 2nd and 3rd presentations were better, it felt less crazy than the first time.



Heres what I would recommend

I went to toastmasters as a guest once to check it out and I would definitely recommend it opposed to a college speech class due to it being an environment where people critique you in a nice manner and its not a place for judgement. Everyone there is there to improve their public speaking. Although taking a college class was terrifying, I did feel like I did something not many stutterers or non stutters would do and it gave me a huge amount of confidence in myself.

I also went to a therapist specifically for my social anxiety who introduced me to mindfulness which has helped tremendously to detach from negative thoughts when it comes to social anxiety as well as to understand my social anxiety.

The BEST thing in my experience has been exposure. Sometimes I start conversations with strangers while waiting in line or my coworkers, stuff like that. With time its become enjoyable and effortless. I'm now much more able to understand what the hell is happening in social interactions and not feel lost and anxious.

With my increase in social skills and feeling more at ease, my stuttering has dramatically improved.

About medication: I've tried medications for anxiety which personally felt like a bandage over a bullet wound. I wanted to fix this on my own and not depend on some pill. I would encourage not taking medications unless you really feel like its the right choice.



I leave you with quote:

"Everything is hard before its easy"

Best of luck :smile:


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December 1960:
"They took the drug one evening at Leary's house and had a profound experience, during which Ginsburg prophetically realized that it was a time to start "a peace and love movement". He then ran naked around the house, attempted to get Kruschev and Kennedy on the telephone and announced to the operator that he was God."

Edited by Zardos (05/22/14 02:58 PM)

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OfflineSpacerific
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Re: Yikes...public speaking phobia... [Re: Zardos] * 1
    #20027054 - 05/22/14 09:13 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

OP, if public speaking is what you want to get good at, realize that it's a skill. Not magic. Trying to ski or snowboard for the first time will get your heart racing. THe solution to that is not to pop pills, but to actually learn to ski or snowboard. It's completely 100% skill based and your heart will go down as you develop familiarity with that specific action and context it happens in.

So to help with speaking in general, get a camera, any camera, that can shoot video. YOur phone will probably do. Now start vlogging. Start free-talking about a topic or another. If you can't find topics, go to wikipedia, read some interesting stuff, then explain it on cam, as you would explain it to a kid or something. Then watch the video and compare with people that are doing this at a higher level. Any of the youtube vloggers will do. Or most TED Talks. Expect that your first rendition of an idea will be insecure and flimsy, the second will be better, etc. Even after doing this for a while, you will have to "loosen up" by talking for 10-15 at first, then doing your first real take. People who give pro speeches have some things that they do to get in the zone, there's a whole iceberg of good habits that gets them there, and you only see the tip of it, the end result. If you start doing the same things that they do backstage, you'll be able to give similar speeches on stage as well.

Practice your speeches with people you're comfy with first (friends, spouse, what have you) and only FROM THERE move on to fully unknown crowds. If you try to go from zero practice to room full of people at a formal event, you're trying to climb the Everest in one single step, it's just not doable that way. Pace yourself properly, that's how all skills are learned and improved.

For more general help with anxiety, focus on:

- sleep
- food (watch teh OMega 3 vs. Omega 6 balance, yours is probably fucked). In fact that link has a TED Talk in it. Watch it, then practice explaining that info to people, verbally, fluently. Use the camera so you can get feedback on how exactly you look and sound, your vocabulary and so on.
- skin contact. Matter of fact, you will be WAY more tense when trying to speak before a crowd normally, and way less tense if you just got laid the night before and a good morning blowjob as well. SO get your skin contact, your screws, hugs and massages, and they will bring down your anxiety level in general, as you'll be more confident. Still no pills required.
- exercise, and plenty of it, especially things like full on sprints and difficult lifts or harder body weight exercises. As opposed to slow running, loose stretching and so on. Work those muscles, get that heart pumping proper and get sweating, give it all you've got and you'll get the benefits.

- Some people swear by meditation, I've found this to be of limited value, if the other things are not taken care of first. Certainly useful, not necessarily a priority. You can't fix an overly active mind and inactive body, by more sitting and chilling. It's certainly not the shortest way IMO.

Oh and Paul McKenna, the man is a spectacularly effective hypnotist, and has audio programs geared at self-image and confidence. I'd look into that, and this should be plenty of info to get you sorted.

Good luck :thumbup:


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Blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear.



For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it,
and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.
- Matthew 13:16

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OfflineImmortal Jellyfish
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Re: Yikes...public speaking phobia... [Re: Zardos]
    #20027398 - 05/22/14 10:26 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Thank you Zardos, I really appreciate your response. Everything you said...down to the quote...is inspirational to me. I'm really glad your stutter has drastically improved. You've got some balls man!


Thank you Spacerific, Mr.GuessWork, Brian Jones, misterjingo, and Lion for your responses. All have been taken into account and I'm going to either try out a toastmasters session, or take a community college public speaking class.

:heart:


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Edited by Immortal Jellyfish (05/22/14 10:36 PM)

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InvisibleLe_Canard
The Duk Abides


Registered: 05/16/03
Posts: 94,392
Loc: Earthfarm 1 Flag
Re: Yikes...public speaking phobia... [Re: Immortal Jellyfish]
    #20027976 - 05/23/14 12:44 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

The best way to conquer fear is to confront it, I have found.

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