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loggrower
Log Cultivator


Registered: 08/02/13
Posts: 273
Loc: Oregon - Coast Range
Last seen: 6 years, 5 months
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Boiled Limed Sawdust - Zero contamination hassle free Oyster colonization...
#19992904 - 05/15/14 03:23 PM (9 years, 8 months ago) |
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I decided to share a little technique with you guys I have been testing for making large amounts of spawn easy. This technique can probably even be used for outdoor super-spawning Oyster mushrooms.
First, I will list my issues or peeves with heat and lime/ash pasteurization.
1. Most wood types result in higher Biological Efficiency if cooked at 200 to 250f. 2. You need to maintain a specific temperature of around 60 to 70C with heat pasteurization. This is a pain in the neck with a wood fired boiler. 3. Lime/ash pasteurization slows colonization quite a bit and doesn't soften harder wood types like Big Leaf Maple, Sugar Maple, Oak, Etc...
Now, here is the Tek which is the solution...

1. Fill water boiler with 25 gallons water and fire up the fire! 2. Add 1kg Wood Ash once water starts to boil. 3. Shovel in fresh cut green sawdust until it's hard to mix with a shovel. 4. Toss in some wood to keep things boiling and leave for an hour. 5. After an hour or so... Shovel the boiling sawdust out onto a screen. Make a two inch layer. It needs about three to six hours in the sun to cool and dry out to proper moisture. I just leave it overnight!
Why is this so great?
1. No need to worry about exact temperatures or monitor things... Easy! 2. Higher Biological efficiency with the harder wood types. 3. Fast colonization because of low lime/ash amount. Lime or Ash is only needed to raise PH just enough to restrict wild spores and mold from germinating until substrate is colonized.
 Oh, here are a few test jars of Poplar sawdust at seven days... Still waiting for any contamination. All jars have five identical nail holes poked in their top center, and visible dust settled on top of the Aluminum foil. Jar 1. I packed three layers of sawdust in, and spread a spoonful of spawn on top of each layer. Jar 2. I just tossed a spoonful of spawn on top. Jar 3. No spawn... Keep inspecting it with a high power LED flashlight... No contamination visible yet!
The bottom line... Raising Ph makes it so you can work with boiled sawdust without hassle. A final Ph of around 8 is fine to buffer boiled sawdust if spawning with 10% grain spawn. A Ph of around 10 if spawning with 5% grain spawn. It's VERY hard for wild spores or molds to sprout on high Ph sawdust. That should give any quality commercial Oyster strain more than enough time to colonize before any risk of contamination.
My process wasn't the least bit clean... This batch of sawdust used in the test was left on a tarp in a dirt floor barn overnight, and my dog was digging in dry dirt chasing something and spread dust all over it. Small accident, but at least it showed that Ph buffered boiled sawdust is pretty foolproof. The batch of sawdust in this example is also a bit over hydrated and wasn't dried out enough. (It was raining outside so I couldn't dry it down enough.)
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fatchillin
Wanderer



Registered: 10/24/11
Posts: 558
Loc: pNw
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
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Re: Boiled Limed Sawdust - Zero contamination hassle free Oyster colonization... [Re: loggrower]
#19992935 - 05/15/14 03:31 PM (9 years, 8 months ago) |
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I do a similar method as well with great results! I've only had 1 bag contaminate out of ~30ish, which I think was from the spawn used.
I use Lipa's fuel pellet tek, but adding lime to the boiling water to bring the PH to 3-4ish.
Heat + Lime = works every time.
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loggrower
Log Cultivator


Registered: 08/02/13
Posts: 273
Loc: Oregon - Coast Range
Last seen: 6 years, 5 months
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Re: Boiled Limed Sawdust - Zero contamination hassle free Oyster colonization... [Re: fatchillin]
#19992988 - 05/15/14 03:44 PM (9 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
fatchillin said: I use Lipa's fuel pellet tek, but adding lime to the boiling water to bring the PH to 3-4ish.
Heat + Lime = works every time.
Bring the PH up to 3-4 ish? Jeeze... That must be some highly acidic wood you are using! It's real easy to boost the PH of poplar sawdust, but Red Alder takes a bit more lime or ash to boost it up.
Eight to ten PH like I said might be overkill. Maybe the wood just needs to be PH balanced to lower contamination risk enough.
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fatchillin
Wanderer



Registered: 10/24/11
Posts: 558
Loc: pNw
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
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Re: Boiled Limed Sawdust - Zero contamination hassle free Oyster colonization... [Re: loggrower]
#19995368 - 05/16/14 12:17 AM (9 years, 8 months ago) |
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No sorry you're right, the ph is like 9-10. Busy week has my brain all jumbled.
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loggrower
Log Cultivator


Registered: 08/02/13
Posts: 273
Loc: Oregon - Coast Range
Last seen: 6 years, 5 months
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Re: Boiled Limed Sawdust - Zero contamination hassle free Oyster colonization... [Re: fatchillin]
#19995654 - 05/16/14 01:42 AM (9 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
fatchillin said: No sorry you're right, the ph is like 9-10. Busy week has my brain all jumbled. 
Sounds like you mixed up Alkalinity with pH?
The pH strips I have currently max out at nine... Need some better ones!
Edited by loggrower (05/16/14 02:03 AM)
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fatchillin
Wanderer



Registered: 10/24/11
Posts: 558
Loc: pNw
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
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Re: Boiled Limed Sawdust - Zero contamination hassle free Oyster colonization... [Re: loggrower]
#19995709 - 05/16/14 02:10 AM (9 years, 8 months ago) |
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Yea I was mixing up the two, I always do that, simple mistakes are my expertise.
I use this info from Aleon's Lime prep method but I use it in combination with Lipa's fuel pellet tek which uses heat to hydrate pellets.
Quote:
Aleon said: Approximate ratio of lime:water to achieve a PH of 12.5 is 2g hydrated lime : 1L of H2O
NOTES: - Using 4-5g/L of hydrated lime in H2O instead of 2g/L showed only a slightly slower growth rate, but seemed to be much more resistant to contams. I am thinking that since I am using lime H2O to hydrate and not to soak the sawdust, that if you add more lime to the point that it precipitates out of the H2O it still ends up in the sawdust after re-hydration (which wouldn't happen with soaking). This "extra" lime may provide long term resistance to contams, as it may keep the PH up for longer periods of time. More experimentation to be done on this.
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loggrower
Log Cultivator


Registered: 08/02/13
Posts: 273
Loc: Oregon - Coast Range
Last seen: 6 years, 5 months
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Re: Boiled Limed Sawdust - Zero contamination hassle free Oyster colonization... [Re: fatchillin]
#19995936 - 05/16/14 04:14 AM (9 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
fatchillin said: I use this info from Aleon's Lime prep method but I use it in combination with Lipa's fuel pellet tek which uses heat to hydrate pellets.
I read through Aleon's Tek... One problem with it. Oak sawdust and no heat! He would have better results with Poplar, Silver Maple, Red Alder, or similar with no-heat pasteurization. Harder woods like White Oak really require a good long cook to get good BE with Oysters.
Oysters just cannot colonize fast and fruit heavy on wood that is not extremely soft from my experience so far!
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deadmandave
Slime


Registered: 02/16/10
Posts: 3,355
Loc:
Last seen: 4 hours, 10 minutes
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Re: Boiled Limed Sawdust - Zero contamination hassle free Oyster colonization... [Re: loggrower]
#19996571 - 05/16/14 08:45 AM (9 years, 8 months ago) |
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My pile of sawdust is 3/4 poplar and 1/4 oak, mixed thoroughly. I havent been heat treating the sawdust, except for (new to me) species like maitake and beech. I am hypothesizing that the mix of wood may take a little longer to colonize but also offer nutrients for the mushrooms for a longer time.
If you wanted to make substrate bags instead of sawdust spawn im sure you could add wood chips to the boiling water. I spend a couple hours a week hunting down sawdust so i like to thicken it up with wood chips.
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loggrower
Log Cultivator


Registered: 08/02/13
Posts: 273
Loc: Oregon - Coast Range
Last seen: 6 years, 5 months
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Re: Boiled Limed Sawdust - Zero contamination hassle free Oyster colonization... [Re: deadmandave]
#20008124 - 05/19/14 01:22 AM (9 years, 8 months ago) |
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I got bored of the jar without any spawn in it... So, I opened it up and tossed a few Aloha PL grain spawn grains into one side of it on the 16th. It smells a little stale. Probably a few mold spores and stuff trying to sprout, but nothing visible... I looked very close!
The three layer spawned jar is thickening up slowly, and the one with a spoonful of spawn just tossed on top still marches on! Ergh... Unsupplemented limed sawdust without 5%+ grain spawn mixed through it colonizes so slow!
Meh... Kinda looks like you can take boiled limed poplar sawdust, let it sit around for a week getting some dust on it, and then spawn it. Lets see if that jar fully colonizes! I was almost tempted to go out and find some Trich spores to toss in, but I doubt it would grow on this around 10 pH poplar sawdust.
Edited by loggrower (05/19/14 02:11 AM)
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uzodinmat
Stranger
Registered: 01/23/24
Posts: 1
Last seen: 20 hours, 57 minutes
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Re: Boiled Limed Sawdust - Zero contamination hassle free Oyster colonization... [Re: loggrower]
#28631930 - 01/23/24 09:35 AM (5 days, 7 hours ago) |
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final results?
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taku
° shapeshifter ∆



Registered: 12/05/20
Posts: 731
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 10 hours, 41 minutes
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Re: Boiled Limed Sawdust - Zero contamination hassle free Oyster colonization... [Re: uzodinmat]
#28632902 - 01/24/24 06:29 AM (4 days, 10 hours ago) |
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9 year old thread...
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