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Desert Delerium


Registered: 04/15/13
Posts: 225
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Re: Welcome to the Stone Eaters- A Soil Revolution [Re: intelligentlife]
#19888201 - 04/23/14 02:57 PM (9 years, 9 months ago) |
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If I remember right the stone eaters article says that granite does contain some calcium. I wonder how much is enough calcium for optimal growth.
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ferrel_human
stone eater



Registered: 06/26/09
Posts: 16,346
Loc: Texas
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Re: Welcome to the Stone Eaters- A Soil Revolution [Re: Desert Delerium]
#19888243 - 04/23/14 03:04 PM (9 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Desert Delerium said: All the love for the Stone Eaters Revolution!
Today I made up a mix of what I had lying around.
 Roughly equal parts of each. From left to right they are andesite and granite, sandstone, pumice, terra cotta shards, vermiculite, pea gravel, and red lava rock. I didn't have any limestone on hand. Should I add some horticultural lime to the mix? If so how much? I'm very excited to find a cactus worthy of this mix. 
awesome stuff bro.
as for the lime it's not needed as per the Stone Eaters pdf. But I mix it in as an all around good mix.
like intelligent said you can do crushed egg shells but you gotta wash them well. Personally I wouldn't use it but if that's all you got then it should be fine.
good luck everyone. And let the revolution begin.
-------------------- Nature is my church and walking through it is gospel. It tells no lies and reveals all to those who look, and listen, closely. -Karode
 Looking for Mimosa tenuiflora seeds. Buttons for trade
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Desert Delerium


Registered: 04/15/13
Posts: 225
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Re: Welcome to the Stone Eaters- A Soil Revolution [Re: ferrel_human]
#19889006 - 04/23/14 05:41 PM (9 years, 9 months ago) |
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Thanks for the kind words Ferrel.
I think the revolution has been on the rise for quite awhile now. And more people are catching onto the benefits it can yield.
I like the shell idea guys. Egg or oysters shells would be easy to obtain for most. But the potential for them to break down quickly concerns me. Fortunately, I may have found something better and more abundant. My hardware store sells .5 cubic foot bags of white marble chips for about 4 bucks. A quick search tells me that marble is a metamorphic rock made of compressed limestone or dolomite. The bag says it is resistant to weathering. Has anyone used marble in their mix yet?
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ferrel_human
stone eater



Registered: 06/26/09
Posts: 16,346
Loc: Texas
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Re: Welcome to the Stone Eaters- A Soil Revolution [Re: Desert Delerium]
#19893280 - 04/24/14 01:55 PM (9 years, 9 months ago) |
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I don't know about marble. I don't remember reading about it in the newsletter. Anybody else have some thoughts on this.
-------------------- Nature is my church and walking through it is gospel. It tells no lies and reveals all to those who look, and listen, closely. -Karode
 Looking for Mimosa tenuiflora seeds. Buttons for trade
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Corporal Kielbasa


Registered: 05/29/04
Posts: 17,235
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Re: Welcome to the Stone Eaters- A Soil Revolution [Re: ferrel_human]
#19893348 - 04/24/14 02:09 PM (9 years, 9 months ago) |
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Haven't used any in a mix. But I just opened all in thread then searched for marble for some info on it.
Quote:
ferrel_human said:
Quote:
Natural mineral elements
Andesite is an extrusive igneous eruptive rock, which contains plagioclases (calcio-sodium) and ferro-magnesium compounds. The colour and texture may vary according to the deposit. Some collectors use it as main ingredient in soil mixtures. From my point of view, it is not an absolutely necessary, but surely it augments the mixture; however, if left out no soil eficiencies will emerge. The recommended granulation is between 2 mm and 8 mm. It can be found in aggregates used for roads construction or in quarries where crushed rock sorts are prepared on site. Fig. 39 photo C. Cristian. Clay is a sedimentary rock composed of silicates, mica and fine quartz sands. Clay is found almost everywhere and is very prevalent and comes in various colours. The best for our intended purpose is quarry clay. It contains a multitude of micronutrients and compounds needed for our plants. Clay is, however, an impermeable element that cannot be used other than in a dry granular form or half-burnt (calcined). In form of powder or crushed, clay is extremely dangerous and leads to the clogging of the soil, obstructing its permeability. However, if we want to use this mineral component, and to preserve the draining quality of the mixture at the same time, depending on the specific requirements, we will add clay only in proportions ranging from 5% to 10% of the mixture. This percentage is directly proportional to the amount of organic component of the soil. Clay can be found in nearby quarries and cement factories or in specialized horticultural shops. Fig. 40 photo C. Cristian. Xerophilia - Special Issue no 1 - August 2013 20 ISSN 2285 – 3987
Limestone is calcium carbonate in the form of sedimentary rock, often of an organic origin (organogenic). Limestone contains many other minerals such as: clay (aluminium, magnesium, iron, calcium, potassium and sodium compounds), dolomites, and quartz sands. The recommended granulation is between 3 mm and 8 mm. Limestone is found in quarries near cement factories.
Marble the solubility of a soluble mineral, in this case calcium carbonate, is directly proportional to the surface area being in contact with the solvent, and hence with the porosity of the particles in the mixture; the marble chips, with their more compact crystalline structure, almost lacking porosity, are less soluble in water as other minerals containing limestone, influencing therefore less the pH of the mixture. However, marble still reacts in soil mixtures, but largely depending on the plant, and in a patchy way. Therefore, its action cannot be determined and anticipated correctly when added in order to inhibit excessive growth. However, it is attacked by acid substances added to the water, as well as by the acid environment that forms in some soil mixtures. It also may be dissolved by the roots that work together, in symbiosis, with the bacteria for the production of necessary dissolution enzymes. I do not dispute its usefulness. I have used it only for a short period of time, later on showing a preference for limestone of marine sedimentary origin, rich in salts and microelements or for dolomite.
Dolomite is a sedimentary rock, improperly called sometimes limestone, being a calcium and magnesium carbonate, sometimes also called dolomite limestone. Dolomite is very interesting in soil for plants, in particular for calcicole plants, whereas they contain magnesium.
ATTENTION!! As it has an increased solubility! (9) – this is why it will be added in smaller amounts than limestone, the effects being similar to those obtained with a larger amount of the latter. If you add dolomites to the mixture, do NOT add limestone at the same time! The recommended granulation is between 3 mm and 8 mm. You can buy it from specialized stores, as it is a construction material used for various types of finishes,
Xerophilia - Special Issue no 1 - August 2013 21 ISSN 2285 – 3987
but it also can be sold as food additives for poultry or livestock, or used for land improvements. Attention! In these latter cases it is in the form of powder and – as such it is contraindicated, its solubility increasing along with its surface of contact with water. In such cases it can be mixed into clay, and once turned manually into granules, it can be dried in the oven (not the microwave oven!) and later incorporated into the mixture.
Calcareous tuff is a natural rock of chemical precipitation which forms following limestone deposit – in the waters saturated with dissolved calcium carbonate – especially on active supports such as stones, shells, twigs, or certain species of aquatic mosses (Fontinalis antipyretica).
ATTENTION!! Looking – as chips – similar to volcanic tuff, calcareous tuff is extremely dangerous for potted plants, being almost pure calcium carbonate with an extremely high porosity (thus the dissolving surface). Therefore, in pots, it shall not be used, not even in calcicole plants!! It should be noted, however, that on large pieces of this kind of rock – turned into micro-biotopes – by watering with soft and acid pH water, can be obtained very spectacular arrangements of calcicole plants sown and grown directly into the cracks and gaps of the rock. Such rocks do not react in the same way as the chips added to a mixture in a pot. It cannot be found on the market. What you can buy are only the processed forms of a deposit tuff, called travertine. It is totally useless and not recommended.
Quartz is a natural glass. As far as I know no cactus associated with symbiotic bacteria can consume it. For the cultivation of cacti and succulent plants, the artisanal or industrial cracking is producing very sharp and dangerous chips. Even in the form of sand, quartz does not operate as a mineral feeding substrate. If necessary, it can be used as a support for sensitive roots, but it is mostly used in very specific and purposeful cases. I know only two categories of Brazilian plants that grow on blunt chips (eroded by rolling) or in coarse quartz sand: several species of Discocactus (especially Discocactus horstii that grows in a mixture of eroded quartz chips and lichen humus), Uebelmannia buiningii and Uebelmannia meninensis. I do NOT recommend this product, its main disadvantage is that it is inert, being likely to be replaced with other active components with nutritional value that, from a physical point of view, have the same properties.
Xerophilia - Special Issue no 1 - August 2013 22 ISSN 2285 – 3987
Dacite is an igneous rock containing silicates and feldspar, and is in my experience an excellent substrate – the best for the growing conditions in Romania – and it can make up to 65-80% of the mixture (when other ingredients are missing). The recommended granulation is between 0.2 mm and 8 mm. It can be found in aggregates used for roads construction or in quarries where crushed rock sorts are prepared on site. It is a highly recommended soil base. Note the best chips, as in the case of granite, come from area of the deposit, where the rock is denaturated. The best soil base combination is a mixture of equal parts of dacite, granite and mica-schist.
Gypsum (10) is a hydrated calcium sulphate, found in nature in the form of sedimentary rock of evaporation. Gypsum is more soluble in water than marble, dolomite or calcite, being one of the most soluble of the minerals containing calcium (Ca). The rock has a low hardness, being slightly crumbly, occurring as a result of sedimentation following the evaporation of marine waters. The rock called gypsum does not have a homogeneous structure and contains various other chemical compounds, and many trace elements that are beneficial to gypsum loving plants. The granulation must be bigger, between 5 mm and 8 mm. It can be found in horticultural stores, being designed to improve soils. Fig. 49 photo Z.M. Demeter.
Xerophilia - Special Issue no 1 - August 2013 23 ISSN 2285 – 3987
ATTENTION!!! Gypsum is a crystalline substance that does not absorb water. But larger slabs of this rock have, however, a heterogeneous structure. Thus the rock which is homonym to the chemical compound, gypsum, can retain water in areas where porous structures have been formed, as shown in the above photo, and are clearly differentiated from the crystalline portions. In these heterogeneous formations, clogged gaps and/or gaps filled with clay particles may occur. Sometimes, small crystals debris, mixed with various other deposits and inclusions, can create a kind of slime or suspension, giving the impression that the rock is a great water-absorber. That is why gypsum chips should be well washed. Otherwise, we must take care not to over-water the plants growing in heavy mixtures containing gypsum, these species being typically sensitive or very sensitive to excess moisture. I recommend to beginners to use this rock, only and only if they are well informed.
WARNING!!! Do not use the construction or medical materials, known under the same name (or known as plaster) – you have all chances to kill everything you plant in it!! The industrial materials referred with this name contain or may contain additives that are toxic to the plant.
Granite is an acidic igneous rock. In addition to feldspar and mica, granite has a high content of trace elements and compounds favourable for lithophagous plants: calcium, iron, potassium (K), magnesium, manganese, sodium, potassium, rubidium, strontium, and titan. The recommended granulation is between 0.2 mm and 8 mm. Note this rock is a recommended soil base, as good as dacite. The highest quality granulations for mixtures can also be found in areas where the rock deposit is distorted. It can be obtained from the same sources as dacite, i.e. from the crushing quarries or from aggregate warehouses for road construction.
Sandstone is a sedimentary rock formed by the cementing of sands, under the pressure of the layers. Depending on the structure, it may be harder or more friable. It is an excellent root support of plants and can be used to stimulate the development of the root system of some smaller plants in larger pots. It is used in plates arranged obliquely or vertically in pots or in the form of larger pieces and chips. The recommended granulation varies largely, ranging, depending on the purpose, from 5 mm to 25 mm. It is a very valuable component for the heterogeneous elements contained. Unfortunately, it is almost impossible to obtain it, where its collection from nature is prohibited, as there are no industrial or commercial sources for it – except for decorative landscaping materials, but to truly prohibitive costs.
Xerophilia - Special Issue no 1 - August 2013 24 ISSN 2285 – 3987
Edited by Corporal Kielbasa (04/24/14 02:11 PM)
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Desert Delerium


Registered: 04/15/13
Posts: 225
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Hmm. So it isn't as soluble in water as limestone and won't change the ph very much.
I think i might try it out anyway. According to the article it does have potential to be decomposed by the bacteria on the cactus roots. I don't see any harm in trying it.
Thanks again fellow lithophiles.
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SuperD
Cacti junky


Registered: 10/05/03
Posts: 6,648
Loc: The bridgesii bridge
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Re: Welcome to the Stone Eaters- A Soil Revolution [Re: Desert Delerium]
#19894892 - 04/24/14 07:06 PM (9 years, 9 months ago) |
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I've had some peyote sitting in the new mix for a while but haven't snapped any pics, will do that soon though.
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   D Manoa said: I need to stop spending all my money on plants and take up a cheaper hobby, like heroin. Looking for Rauhocereus riosaniensis seeds or live specimen(s), me if you have any for trade
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ferrel_human
stone eater



Registered: 06/26/09
Posts: 16,346
Loc: Texas
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Re: Welcome to the Stone Eaters- A Soil Revolution [Re: SuperD]
#19894940 - 04/24/14 07:16 PM (9 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
SuperD said: I've had some peyote sitting in the new mix for a while but haven't snapped any pics, will do that soon though.
-------------------- Nature is my church and walking through it is gospel. It tells no lies and reveals all to those who look, and listen, closely. -Karode
 Looking for Mimosa tenuiflora seeds. Buttons for trade
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Mostly_Harmless
wyrd bið ful aræd



Registered: 05/12/09
Posts: 5,043
Loc: Perfidious Albion
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Re: Welcome to the Stone Eaters- A Soil Revolution [Re: ferrel_human]
#19939093 - 05/04/14 06:26 AM (9 years, 9 months ago) |
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Nothing to see yet but here is Aztekium ritteri LH397 sowed on tufa & moler. I also sowed some Strombocactus disciformis v. minimus PP362 to the same mix.

Rooting some loph buttons cut from grafts on tufa too, which I expect to be quite slow.
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TheHydrogenBomb
I SUPPORT RULE #4



Registered: 01/07/12
Posts: 2,164
Loc: Silent Hill
Last seen: 9 years, 8 months
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Re: Welcome to the Stone Eaters- A Soil Revolution [Re: Mostly_Harmless]
#19940004 - 05/04/14 12:34 PM (9 years, 9 months ago) |
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Are all of you guys putting straight stone all the way down to the bottom of the pot?
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ferrel_human
stone eater



Registered: 06/26/09
Posts: 16,346
Loc: Texas
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Re: Welcome to the Stone Eaters- A Soil Revolution [Re: TheHydrogenBomb]
#19940856 - 05/04/14 03:44 PM (9 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
TheHydrogenBomb said: Are all of you guys putting straight stone all the way down to the bottom of the pot?
I am 100% mineral mix, as per stone eater mix.
-------------------- Nature is my church and walking through it is gospel. It tells no lies and reveals all to those who look, and listen, closely. -Karode
 Looking for Mimosa tenuiflora seeds. Buttons for trade
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ferrel_human
stone eater



Registered: 06/26/09
Posts: 16,346
Loc: Texas
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Re: Welcome to the Stone Eaters- A Soil Revolution [Re: Mostly_Harmless]
#19940864 - 05/04/14 03:45 PM (9 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mostly_Harmless said: Nothing to see yet but here is Aztekium ritteri LH397 sowed on tufa & moler. I also sowed some Strombocactus disciformis v. minimus PP362 to the same mix.

Rooting some loph buttons cut from grafts on tufa too, which I expect to be quite slow.
what do th2 numbers right next to the aztekium ritter mean?
-------------------- Nature is my church and walking through it is gospel. It tells no lies and reveals all to those who look, and listen, closely. -Karode
 Looking for Mimosa tenuiflora seeds. Buttons for trade
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SuperD
Cacti junky


Registered: 10/05/03
Posts: 6,648
Loc: The bridgesii bridge
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Re: Welcome to the Stone Eaters- A Soil Revolution [Re: ferrel_human]
#19941097 - 05/04/14 04:52 PM (9 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
ferrel_human said:
Quote:
Mostly_Harmless said: Nothing to see yet but here is Aztekium ritteri LH397 sowed on tufa & moler. I also sowed some Strombocactus disciformis v. minimus PP362 to the same mix.

Rooting some loph buttons cut from grafts on tufa too, which I expect to be quite slow.
what do th2 numbers right next to the aztekium ritter mean?
That number represents the original location the seeds/specimens were found at, so any seed grown from them can be referenced back to where they were found in the wild. Kind of like KK342 which you've heard of. If you are growing KK342 seeds, you're growing seeds originally collected and found by Karel Knize from a very specific location in the wild. I'm not sure what the initials LH stand for but it's whoever found those aztekium seeds originally.
--------------------
   D Manoa said: I need to stop spending all my money on plants and take up a cheaper hobby, like heroin. Looking for Rauhocereus riosaniensis seeds or live specimen(s), me if you have any for trade
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ferrel_human
stone eater



Registered: 06/26/09
Posts: 16,346
Loc: Texas
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Re: Welcome to the Stone Eaters- A Soil Revolution [Re: SuperD]
#19941173 - 05/04/14 05:17 PM (9 years, 9 months ago) |
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Thanks D. I had now idea about them letters. I wonder where they would originate. I wonder if I could put fh on my ariocarpus fissuratus seeds harvested off my plants.
-------------------- Nature is my church and walking through it is gospel. It tells no lies and reveals all to those who look, and listen, closely. -Karode
 Looking for Mimosa tenuiflora seeds. Buttons for trade
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SuperD
Cacti junky


Registered: 10/05/03
Posts: 6,648
Loc: The bridgesii bridge
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Re: Welcome to the Stone Eaters- A Soil Revolution [Re: ferrel_human]
#19941220 - 05/04/14 05:30 PM (9 years, 9 months ago) |
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I have no idea if those aztekium seed numbers are catalogued anywhere online, but I'm quite certain I saw a website that had a detailed list of all of Karel Knize's seed locales, so the same might be true for the aztek seeds as well. I'm not totally sure as I haven't really searched around looking for it though.
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   D Manoa said: I need to stop spending all my money on plants and take up a cheaper hobby, like heroin. Looking for Rauhocereus riosaniensis seeds or live specimen(s), me if you have any for trade
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ferrel_human
stone eater



Registered: 06/26/09
Posts: 16,346
Loc: Texas
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Re: Welcome to the Stone Eaters- A Soil Revolution [Re: SuperD]
#19941920 - 05/04/14 08:47 PM (9 years, 9 months ago) |
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I am drinking and I dont know what we could look at here. But we can see several germinated on rock.
-------------------- Nature is my church and walking through it is gospel. It tells no lies and reveals all to those who look, and listen, closely. -Karode
 Looking for Mimosa tenuiflora seeds. Buttons for trade
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karode13
Tāne Mahuta




Registered: 05/19/05
Posts: 15,290
Loc: LV-426
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Re: Welcome to the Stone Eaters- A Soil Revolution [Re: ferrel_human]
#19942080 - 05/04/14 09:34 PM (9 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
ferrel_human said:
what do th2 numbers right next to the aztekium ritter mean?
Field collection numbers as SuperD pointed out.
Here's more info on that particular collection number:
Quote:
Field number: LH 397 Collector: Ladislav Horáček Species: Aztekium ritteri Locality: Rayones, Nuevo Leon, Mexico
Source: http://ralph.cs.cf.ac.uk/Cacti/finder.php?Plant=Aztekium+ritteri
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Horticulture
Mycocurious



Registered: 04/30/09
Posts: 1,102
Loc: Midwest
Last seen: 9 years, 1 month
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Re: Welcome to the Stone Eaters- A Soil Revolution [Re: karode13]
#19942381 - 05/04/14 10:45 PM (9 years, 9 months ago) |
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Eager to try out this 100% sandstone crumble mix. A waterfat Gymnocalycium spegazzinii is going to be the first lucky victim.

Also got a fractured piece of sandstone to try a fissure planting in.
-------------------- The Plant Mage Guild
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ferrel_human
stone eater



Registered: 06/26/09
Posts: 16,346
Loc: Texas
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Re: Welcome to the Stone Eaters- A Soil Revolution [Re: Horticulture]
#19943474 - 05/05/14 08:35 AM (9 years, 9 months ago) |
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Looking good horticulture.
-------------------- Nature is my church and walking through it is gospel. It tells no lies and reveals all to those who look, and listen, closely. -Karode
 Looking for Mimosa tenuiflora seeds. Buttons for trade
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TheHydrogenBomb
I SUPPORT RULE #4



Registered: 01/07/12
Posts: 2,164
Loc: Silent Hill
Last seen: 9 years, 8 months
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Re: Welcome to the Stone Eaters- A Soil Revolution [Re: ferrel_human]
#19971356 - 05/11/14 10:22 AM (9 years, 9 months ago) |
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Rocks don't seem to stay wet vary long
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