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Invisiblekarode13Facebook
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Re: grafting loph [Re: Lipa Kreepa]
    #19969600 - 05/10/14 09:28 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

If you're unsure if your chosen scion is juicy enough, water it and wait 3 days for it to take it up. Purple/Red coloured lophs can be grafted. I don't have any experience with shriveled lophs of that colour.

Basically the graft is a success when you take the tape off and it stays in one place without deflating over the next couple of weeks. After a week or so the scion should become 'rock hard' as the juices get flowing between stock and scion. If this all happens then it's a successful graft.


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Re: grafting loph [Re: karode13]
    #19969692 - 05/10/14 09:57 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

okay wow, thanks man... so in regard to soaking, how would u do this with a tiny already slized button? like take the scion and then put it in a cup of water. keep in mind that the scion might be around the size of half a cocoa puff or something. a concern might be in regard to the fact that say the buttons were already sliced and manipulated through the process of being placed ontop the cacrti and tied into place... could removing them, soaking them and then repositioning them through tieing up and whathaveu, be a bit too much stress and manipulation of a tiny little specimen?

so the purple ones can be done successfully? I wonder if its said to be more difficult with these in contrast to a more lush and green one.

hey man, sorry to bombard u with all these questions, I appreciate u and everyone else's replies and feedback, but here's just one more :grin: when is the longest u think it would take for a scion and rootstock to fuse together... like "if it hasn't grafted at this point, it never will"?? I imagine it can vary significantly from scenario to scenario, but is there a typical timeframe in such a process?

thanks again, so so much yall:hug:


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LOVE LIFE AND LIVE IT HARD!

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Re: grafting loph [Re: Lipa Kreepa]
    #19970414 - 05/11/14 02:04 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Nobody mentioned soaking anything, I said water it. By water I mean a plant that still has roots. Soaking a button without roots just sounds scary. It would probably seal its doom. If you meant taking a failed graft, soaking in water to get the cut surface wet and then tape back on. No, this wont work either. You'll need to re cut both the stock and scion, then tape together again.

Purple ones should be fine. It might take longer to see growth in those. Again, I'm not experienced with grafting them.

Longest for it to take would be 7-10 days. It only takes a few days for them to fuse, then it's just leaving them taped to allow the graft union to form callus tissue, which strengthens it.


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Re: grafting loph [Re: karode13]
    #19970774 - 05/11/14 06:13 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

I have grafted some months ago lophs to random echinopsis cactus what I have been cloned for years. I got that echinopsis years ago from common plant nursery store. I have cut lophs and stock plants with clean knife, then add scion fast to stock and look about vascular rings of the plant overlap someway. Then I have add small amount of superglue to prevent peyote button moving anymore. Superglue should not be between the scion and stock, just add some drops next to scion if necessary. Grafts work good without superglue also. After that I just move those to separate small pots and then add rubber band over the cactus and it's pot so it keeps pressure to spot where two plants should attach together.

I have done same thing with trichs, especially trichcoereus seedlings with small buttons have been work out with grafting. Anyway, superglue is ok to use, it will fall away when scion grows.

These are taken last september when I scion was attached (kept +1 week under pressure and light)


Now they are growing as grafted plants. Only thing I have transplanted these later on but same plants.


You just need to be quick when you move cut peyote button on stock plant and use clean sharp knives. Use isopropyl alcohol to clean your sharp tools. Thing is you do graft fast and don't disturb it anymore for weeks and wait scion starts to grow.

What comes to information about how long it takes plants attach together, you will learn that by grafting, it's hard to say, sometimes it takes week or two, sometimes graft fully takes it's growth after month or two. It doesn't matter because only thing you actually need is how to do graft.

Basically any columnar species plant is ok to graft but trichocereus, blue myrtle and some other species have proven to be good.

There is example I do with lophophora scions also


I have done also very small grafts to trichocereus seedlings. This is grafted last summer. This have been under pressure of rubber band and you can see superglue where it is. It just prevent scion moving anymore and pressure is easy to add without scion slip off from stock.


Same plant after winter.


I have grafted to trichocereus seedlings just because I want to know how they do with seedlings as stock. My success rate of seedling grafts compared to others are more lower. With pereskiopsis success rate is pretty high and they are easy to work with after some time of practice.

Edited by intelligentlife (05/11/14 08:16 AM)

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Re: grafting loph [Re: intelligentlife]
    #19989167 - 05/14/14 08:49 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

okay last question.... but before I type that out, I just want to again thank every poster for their contribution to this thread... big ups to u all :hug: u guys and gals are all awesome :dancingbear::rockon::awedance: that's right, a little triple emoticon love for you blessed cacti people!:wink:

but yeah I have heard in here as well from another member mention cling warp for aiding in the grafting process.... although what are your thoughts on that? it seems like that moisture being held in could be beneficial to prevent it from drying out, yet I dunno... perhaps it could rot the cacti.... and here's part two of my question, if one didn't have cling wrap but they had plastic grocery bags, could they cut off a little section and wrap this around the graft? if this is a suitable ghetto approach, does the plastic have to be totally translucent or can a colored grocery bag be used? keep in mind that the graft would be held on tight with rope and the scion is held in place quite well... the plastic would just be a sure fire way to promote success (presumably)

much love:heart:


--------------------
LOVE LIFE AND LIVE IT HARD!

'Great Spirit, today, let me touch the Earth so the Earth can touch me.'

"I urge you to please notice when you are happy, and exclaim or murmur or think at some point, 'If this isn't nice, I don't know what is.'" -- Vonnegut

A monkey w/out his jungle is just an inmate-- :heart:lipa

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Re: grafting loph [Re: Lipa Kreepa]
    #19989725 - 05/14/14 11:10 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Lipa Kreepa said:
but yeah I have heard in here as well from another member mention cling warp for aiding in the grafting process.... although what are your thoughts on that? it seems like that moisture being held in could be beneficial to prevent it from drying out, yet I dunno... perhaps it could rot the cacti.... and here's part two of my question, if one didn't have cling wrap but they had plastic grocery bags, could they cut off a little section and wrap this around the graft? if this is a suitable ghetto approach, does the plastic have to be totally translucent or can a colored grocery bag be used? keep in mind that the graft would be held on tight with rope and the scion is held in place quite well... the plastic would just be a sure fire way to promote success (presumably)

much love:heart:




You need moisture to graft seedlings to pereskiopsis species. And probably you have read about cling warp when graft is done to pereskiopsis stock plants. Basically it's not necessary when used bigger scions and stocks. You can use cling wrap also but it may cause too much moisture and thing is cut surface of stock plant need to callous fast so mold infections doesn't occur. Fresh cut need to be in dry in order to heal properly. When you cut cactus, there will come enough moisture out from cactus flesh at fresh wound and it's enough, just plant fast scion to stock and aim vascular rings to overlap and add pressure without disturbing scion so it will attach and starts grow later on. Seedling grafts sure do need humidity, older plants will do without.

Other species like trichocereus, and some similar columnars with 2-4year old peyote button is ok and need just fast action and pressure later on and hold it week or two.. Bigger the scion and stock, littlebit more pressure can be add and longer time.

After about 10 days pressure can be taken off and wait scion to start show signs of growth.

Moisture with fresh cactus cuts is not good and it can lead infection in long term. Cactus have it's own immune system but anyway, those plants are easily damaged with moisture when they are cut open or used dirty blades and can lead rot or mold infection.

I've lost few peyote button to mold infection come trough grafting. But when I use pressure and add superglue around scion, it stays still.. When those plants(scion & stock) are cut you need to move scion fast above stock plant and just left it to some shade till graft attach and starts grow.

Basically this:
You should not disturb the graft it's first week or two and do grafting fast and properly. With pereskiopsis you can use humid environment and just add seedling above cut stock.

I understood you are grafting bigger peyote buttons.:gangsta:


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Edited by intelligentlife (05/14/14 11:52 PM)

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Re: grafting loph [Re: intelligentlife]
    #19991048 - 05/15/14 08:24 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Other species like trichocereus, and some similar columnars with 2-4year old peyote button is ok




I can grow a flowering peyote on its own roots in 2 years !!!


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Re: grafting loph [Re: Spanishfly]
    #19991240 - 05/15/14 09:45 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Spanishfly said:
Quote:

Other species like trichocereus, and some similar columnars with 2-4year old peyote button is ok




I can grow a flowering peyote on its own roots in 2 years !!!




And it can be grafted to bigger trich!:awesome:

..If need to do so.


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Edited by intelligentlife (05/15/14 09:45 AM)

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Re: grafting loph [Re: Lipa Kreepa]
    #20025911 - 05/22/14 04:52 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

I am glad that is working out for you , Lipa.  As soon as my periskiopsis get big enough we'll do some more grafting.

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Re: grafting loph [Re: Urb]
    #20026868 - 05/22/14 08:25 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

okay... so say one has their scion taped down for about two weeks... they say to themselves "okay cool, its not shriveled up and looks like it took"... so they decide to cut back the rope and peel off the layer of tape they have ontop... only to see the scion lift up a little as the tape comes off:shocked: okay, now this person, at first figures, "well it didn't take enough, so the best thing to do is recut both ends and retape it all up for a second attempt." although when they take their finger and try to gently move the scion around to see how loose it actually is, it doesn't budge at all... and the button is pretty rock hard?

should they recut and try the graft again to be completely certain and ensure they don't waste the chance at grafting this scion... or should they go with a leap of faith and go by the fact that it was in place pretty good when they expected it after the tape and rope was removed???


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LOVE LIFE AND LIVE IT HARD!

'Great Spirit, today, let me touch the Earth so the Earth can touch me.'

"I urge you to please notice when you are happy, and exclaim or murmur or think at some point, 'If this isn't nice, I don't know what is.'" -- Vonnegut

A monkey w/out his jungle is just an inmate-- :heart:lipa

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Re: grafting loph [Re: Lipa Kreepa]
    #20026893 - 05/22/14 08:31 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

post number two.... okay so say the grafting cactus one used for their little experiment had a trich pup coming in when the scions were first attached... this was a tiny little pup back then, say just around the size of the buttons if not just a little bigger... and now the pup is growing in size and is also a very light shade of green. the cacti enthusiast knows he needs to get this pup some light soon... yet he doesn't want to put the newly grafted branches into the strong radiation of the sun before they are ready to handle it.... any advice on this? when is it suitable to transfer the specimen from indoors to sunlight safely without any risks to the freshly grafted scions?


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LOVE LIFE AND LIVE IT HARD!

'Great Spirit, today, let me touch the Earth so the Earth can touch me.'

"I urge you to please notice when you are happy, and exclaim or murmur or think at some point, 'If this isn't nice, I don't know what is.'" -- Vonnegut

A monkey w/out his jungle is just an inmate-- :heart:lipa

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Re: grafting loph [Re: Urb]
    #20026903 - 05/22/14 08:34 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Urb said:
I am glad that is working out for you , Lipa.  As soon as my periskiopsis get big enough we'll do some more grafting.




cant wait brother:rockon:


--------------------
LOVE LIFE AND LIVE IT HARD!

'Great Spirit, today, let me touch the Earth so the Earth can touch me.'

"I urge you to please notice when you are happy, and exclaim or murmur or think at some point, 'If this isn't nice, I don't know what is.'" -- Vonnegut

A monkey w/out his jungle is just an inmate-- :heart:lipa

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Re: grafting loph [Re: Lipa Kreepa]
    #20027899 - 05/23/14 12:29 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

One shouldn't graft to a pupping stock in the first place. The stock builds a vascular connection with the scion because it is fooled into thinking that the scion IS its growing point, somehow damaged and in need of fixing. If, however, the stock has an alternate growing point, it will diverte resources to it and forget about the apex, leading to poor or failed connections.

I would sacrifice the pup and hope for the graft to take better.


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Re: grafting loph [Re: LSoares]
    #20027941 - 05/23/14 12:36 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

nah the fresh pup is growing off another branch. its just growing simultaneously with the older branches which hold the scions


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LOVE LIFE AND LIVE IT HARD!

'Great Spirit, today, let me touch the Earth so the Earth can touch me.'

"I urge you to please notice when you are happy, and exclaim or murmur or think at some point, 'If this isn't nice, I don't know what is.'" -- Vonnegut

A monkey w/out his jungle is just an inmate-- :heart:lipa

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Re: grafting loph [Re: Lipa Kreepa]
    #20028205 - 05/23/14 01:49 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

You're saying you tried a multi-branched, multi-graft for your first attempt? Brave girl! :thumbup:


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Z. in sunny Lisbon, Portugal
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Re: grafting loph [Re: LSoares]
    #20028286 - 05/23/14 02:14 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

although when they take their finger and try to gently move the scion around to see how loose it actually is, it doesn't budge at all... and the button is pretty rock hard?




This means you've made a partial graft and only half of the scion has made a connection with the root stock. Not necessarily bad thing, some of the best grafts I've made started as partial grafts. I'd consider it a success or if you're picky or got OCD, then you can redo the graft.


Quote:

when is it suitable to transfer the specimen from indoors to sunlight safely without any risks to the freshly grafted scions?





Start it off in bright shade until the scion has visible growth. After this increase the amount of light until it seems happy. Back off on the light if the scion starts to go red, if it does repeat light acclimatisation. Too much light stunts growth in my experience.


Also, Where's some pics dude!! :eyemonster:


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Re: grafting loph [Re: karode13]
    #20033693 - 05/24/14 08:15 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

The scions came from a Caespitosa and are pretty small. I think he'd do better with a periskiopsis , as more of the ring would line up rather than with a Pedro which has a much larger ring.


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Texas Honey Badger said:
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-Whenever you hear 5 blasts from the emergency horn that’s the signal for a 30 minute buttfucking break-      Fiery said:
I wish I was a young sexy woman so I could have awesome sexy adventures all the time[/quote]
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Re: grafting loph [Re: Urb]
    #20042486 - 05/26/14 11:34 AM (9 years, 9 months ago)

thanks for the replies guys. all the help from the beginning of this thread to the end has really been helpful. one def took.... it was actually the partial scion graft that did better than the other two:rolleyes: actually im kinda concerned about the other two. one is a lot smaller than it originally was at first and one half of it is becoming flat and dried out looking:mad2: so im guessing it either didn't take or only a portion of it did... and the last one had to be sliced and regrafted two times after the first initial go. so it is insanely small and flat on the bottom where it meets the stock... so either it didn't take at all, like the other one, or its just a small little fragment that conjoined with the stock. either way, on both of them, there's nothing really to do it seems, except just letting it be and hoping for the best. if it dies, well then at least one took. from there, there might be the option of taking future grafts from the pups that grow from it. oh well, one could still considered a successful journey in the world of grafting and i doubt it would've been possible without the guidance of a few people in this thread :wink:

much love cacti people:heart::grin:

i wish i could :hug: u all... but this emoticon will have to do:cool:

check this pic out....



--------------------
LOVE LIFE AND LIVE IT HARD!

'Great Spirit, today, let me touch the Earth so the Earth can touch me.'

"I urge you to please notice when you are happy, and exclaim or murmur or think at some point, 'If this isn't nice, I don't know what is.'" -- Vonnegut

A monkey w/out his jungle is just an inmate-- :heart:lipa

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Re: grafting loph [Re: Lipa Kreepa]
    #20047378 - 05/27/14 03:11 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

The one in the middle is looking like it took. The beautiful thing about using a caespitosa is if you get just one to take , you will have all the scions you will need with in a years time.  I cut the tops off of my surviving periskiopsis and are rooting them now. Shouldn't be more than a couple of days time.:smile:


--------------------
Texas Honey Badger said:
I went to boys town in Nuevo Laredo when I was in my early ‘30s
There was a bunch of trannys even way back then
I paid probably $20 but I was so drunk I couldn’t get a hard on:faded:
-Whenever you hear 5 blasts from the emergency horn that’s the signal for a 30 minute buttfucking break-      Fiery said:
I wish I was a young sexy woman so I could have awesome sexy adventures all the time[/quote]
split_by_nine said:
i did the man bun.[/quote]
1234go said:
I don't have a dog. I can't stand em...They're needy animals for needy people.

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InvisibleLipa Kreepa
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Re: grafting loph [Re: Urb]
    #20183971 - 06/25/14 11:28 AM (9 years, 8 months ago)

check this out... one def took. getting nice looking. growing upward more than bulbous which almost reminds me of a trich pup, but hopefully it will begin to round up a bit more. to be honest I haven't given it much direct sunlight. been nervous about sunscorch as well as pest messing things up. things like slugs are somewhat of an issue with me. and my work schedule makes it hard to be home before sunset when the slugs start to come out....



okay, now I was talking to a fellow shroomer who recommended that I cut off all the rest of the limbs to make it just the scion/stock in the container. he said that the roots would emphazise more energy toward that one particular spot and not have it compete with the other branches. seems to make sense, although I wanted to get some more feedback before I go hacking off limbs. also if I do this, would it shock the plant at all to loose so much at once? I wouldn't want anything to itterupt the scion when it finally started to get off the ground, ya know?

heres a pic of the whole plant...




--------------------
LOVE LIFE AND LIVE IT HARD!

'Great Spirit, today, let me touch the Earth so the Earth can touch me.'

"I urge you to please notice when you are happy, and exclaim or murmur or think at some point, 'If this isn't nice, I don't know what is.'" -- Vonnegut

A monkey w/out his jungle is just an inmate-- :heart:lipa

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