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Invisiblecarbonhoots
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Registered: 09/11/01
Posts: 1,351
Loc: BC Canada
California's vote was a big disappointment
    #1996100 - 10/10/03 05:02 AM (17 years, 1 month ago)

I mean really.

Do you people out there who voted for Arnold think that that will be a good move?

He just doesn't strike me as a dedicated, civilization minded person. He strikes me as a hard-working/lucky ass bodybuilder turned super-duper movie star who surely doesn't have a clue as to the real realities of most (working) people.

Don't get me wrong. Terminater part 1 is one of my most favorite movies of all time...but that should never get anyone to vote for the guy.

But, by God, I bet that sort of thing was the motivating factor that got that man into office.

What was he called? Hollywood culture puffed up with a few pages of Milton Friedman?

Mr Schwarzenegger had said on the campaign trail that it was time to terminate Gray Davis







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  -I'd rather have a frontal lobotomy than a bottle in front of me

CANADIAN CENTER FOR POLICY ALTERNATIVES


Edited by carbonhoots (10/10/03 05:02 AM)


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Offlinedaba
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Re: California's vote was a big disappointment [Re: carbonhoots]
    #1996189 - 10/10/03 06:32 AM (17 years, 1 month ago)

What is done is done.
Just let it play out, hey you never know!


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Invisibledoktor_alternate
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Re: California's vote was a big disappointment [Re: carbonhoots]
    #1996190 - 10/10/03 06:33 AM (17 years, 1 month ago)

case in point: americans are brainwashed by television. american intelligence has been reduced to brand name loyalty. ah-nuld is like a brand name, wouldnt you agree?


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Offlinedaba
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Re: California's vote was a big disappointment [Re: doktor_alternate]
    #1996198 - 10/10/03 06:38 AM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Maybe Californians are sick of politicians.
Maybe they want something new, no matter how... foreign :wink:.


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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
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Registered: 02/09/01
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Re: California's vote was a big disappointment [Re: carbonhoots]
    #1996237 - 10/10/03 07:23 AM (17 years, 1 month ago)

are you implying tht Gray "i have no idea what i'm doing" Davis could do better? I'd vote for a monkey before Davis. I see it like this, the less the politicians do the better we are.


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America....FUCK YEAH!!!

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InvisibleGabbaDj
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Re: California's vote was a big disappointment [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1996719 - 10/10/03 12:24 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Innvertigo said:
are you implying tht Gray "i have no idea what i'm doing" Davis could do better? I'd vote for a monkey before Davis. I see it like this, the less the politicians do the better we are.



Too True..

I voted for Arnold because I want to believe him.. I want to believe that he will do whats best for California in mind. I know hes no politician but thats a plus, he will learn and listen and do whats right.

Davis did none of that, he thought he knew what he was doing and the only people he listened to were his golf buddies. Davis fucked up by being a politician and not listening to the people...


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GabbaDj

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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: California's vote was a big disappointment [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1996738 - 10/10/03 12:30 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

I think that was the problem.

Davis didn't do much.


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: California's vote was a big disappointment [Re: GabbaDj]
    #1996779 - 10/10/03 12:50 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

that's funny, because our new governator golfs
with big agribusiness and energy concerns.

where do you think he's going to get his ideas
from?

I can't believe you bought all this, hook, line and
sinker, Gabba.

if he is successfull in passing a tax on the indians,
that will be great, but you are crazy if you think he'll
ever close the tax loopholes that allow big business
in california to get away without paying close to
8billion dollars every year to the state.

that alone would make an enormous difference to
our economy.

maybe if we had a REAL independent like camejo in
the governor's office, but never with some GOP super
star puppet.

this whole thing was a sham...they goaded people into
thinking they really had a say in things...when all along
this was the work of a wealthy and bitter congressman
who couldn't stand that his party lost fair and square.

republican power grabs: 2
citizens: 0


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: California's vote was a big disappointment [Re: carbonhoots]
    #1997667 - 10/10/03 04:43 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

The biggest disappointment was Prop. 54 not passing.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineMisterKite
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Re: California's vote was a big disappointment [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1997688 - 10/10/03 04:49 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

I can't wait to move out of this joke of a country.


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"But for the sake of some little mouthful of flesh we deprive a soul of the sun and light, and of that proportion of life and time it had been born into the world to enjoy."


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: California's vote was a big disappointment [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1997734 - 10/10/03 05:02 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

unfortunately, race plays an issue in medicine.

there are some races that tend to be predisposed
to certain diseases.

by ignoring that for the soul purpose of feigning
egalitarianism does a disservice to the patient.



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Invisiblewingnutx

Registered: 09/25/00
Posts: 2,282
Re: California's vote was a big disappointment [Re: afoaf]
    #1997758 - 10/10/03 05:07 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Prop 54 did not ban collecting racial data for medical research.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: California's vote was a big disappointment [Re: afoaf]
    #1997769 - 10/10/03 05:10 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

There was an exemption for medical data.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: California's vote was a big disappointment [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1998181 - 10/10/03 07:07 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

The health data that would be banned if Prop 54 is passed is currently used for very important purposes, to, for example:

Track cancer rates by community and location to try and pinpoint cancer causing agents in the environment.
Target prevention strategies that inform the Asian community about the risks of hepatitis B for which they are especially at risk.
By analyzing data, doctors have learned that white women are diagnosed with breast cancer at a higher rate, Latinos are more likely develop diabetes and African-Americans are more susceptible to sickle-cell anemia.
If there is an illness outbreak in one group, information will help us contain it and prevent it from spreading to the general population.

Over fifty leading healthcare organizations strongly oppose Proposition 54 including the American Heart Association, the American Cancer Society, the California Medical Association, the California Nurses Association, the American Academy of Pediatrics, and Breast Cancer Action as well as former United States Surgeon Generals C. Everett Koop and David Satcher.

not necessarily biased, but:

http://www.defeat54.org/



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InvisiblePsiloKitten
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Re: California's vote was a big disappointment [Re: carbonhoots]
    #1999062 - 10/11/03 01:55 AM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Seriously, I dont know wether to laugh, cry or be enraged by this.

From one side, I see disillusioned, closed minded or brainwashed people that have good intent but dont realize that this isn't just thumbing your nose at convention.

"How much harm can he do?", they snicker.

This isn't some time of rags to riches story. I mean, given Gray Davis was the working man's career politician. He had a degree in history, went to law school. The he went to war during the height of Vietnam straight out of college. Of course, he was a captain because he had went to college so he probably had no idea of what the hell he was doing in the war. He then comes back and works his way up the ranks of the Govt. And we know that he fucks up royally. He's really all brains and no commonsense..

But Gray's thing was education and I do think that he did some good things in that arena.

Dont get me wrong, I think he definately needed to be recalled..

But Arnold? This guy grows up as the son of an SS. Even if he is reasonably well adjusted atleast we know where his disapproval of providing medical services for illegal aliens comes from.

Then he becomes a movie star. He smokes some pot, does some gangbangs.. Then he cleans up, marries a Kennedy ( I think inbreeding in rich aristocracy really has a calling in the Kennedy family) and starts doing some touchy feely movies like Kindergarten Cop. 13 women come out in accusation that he harrassed them.. groped them, fondled them.. whatever.

I mean, even if only 2 of those women were telling the truth, the honest to God truth, this is a man you want running your State? I mean, even if he didn't mean anything bad and those were "the times".. wouldn't it concern you that he just randomly groped women to the point that it made them uncomfortable? He didnt even realize what he was doing was inappropriate?

As humans, we honestly need to vote with the idea of people's biases in mind as well. Im not saying it is this huge unforgiveable thing. It's just not a quality befitting the Governor of the 5th largest economy in the world. He doesnt have any redeeeming business saavy to get us out of the budget crisis or the Enron crap either.

Did you know Enron just sued Sierra Pacific Power? A small energy company that serves most of Tahoe and Reno and Las Vegas. They say the company defrauded them.

Their site/

I implore you to really look at the slickness (or lack thereof) of that site and read the company's history. Look at it's board of directors. Enron is pulling a classic bully move and in the end, the people of nevada and cali are going to end up paying even more to the bastards.

I havent heard all the facts.. but what is Arnold going to do to Enron? When is our state going to sue them? When are those fat refund checks coming back to the people of California? The car tax is just a smoke screen gesture. Enron is suing other companies for it's collosal fuck up?

What do you think about that Arnold? How are you going to fix this?

The Governator has spoken on less then a handful of topics, yet we were blown away at his candor for accepting blame and saying Im sorry. I know he admired Hitler's rise to fame and public speaking abilities, but I dont know where he stands on anything. Maybe he is straight Republic party line. Who knows? Does he even know about some of the issues that effect minorities and the poor? Will he say, "let them eat cake" while cutting social programs? Do you know?

Then another side shows me honest people who are dimwitted that have seen all of Arnold's movies and wax reminiscent of Ronald Regan. These are the young and middle aged republicans that experienced childhood in the 80s. They secretly covet Transformers and Loved Terminator 2, even more then the original.

The rest, well I think they are just frightened to death and even though Arnold isnt their choice, they look around as the valley collapses on top of them. I mean, if you consider the dive that technology took in the late 90s.. people are getting desperate and frankly, Republicans are great during times like that.. just like Nixon was a catch after LBJ.

Then I see articles like this.. and I put my tinfoil hat on, watch some old clips from the last presidential election.. and I smoke a few bowls and tell myself that the weak have inherited the world.


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: California's vote was a big disappointment [Re: PsiloKitten]
    #2000565 - 10/11/03 05:59 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

/me fires my pistolas in the air!!1


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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: California's vote was a big disappointment [Re: carbonhoots]
    #2000786 - 10/11/03 07:08 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

he said a while back "I will bring leadership to California like President Bush brought leadership to Washington!"

that scared the shit out of me so I didn't vote for him..

Now that he's elected, I hear President Bush called him Wednesday and congratulated him on his win, said he's looking forward to working with him, and soon wants to meet up with him... ARGH! What a fcukin nightmare!


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Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: California's vote was a big disappointment [Re: Strumpling]
    #2000789 - 10/11/03 07:09 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

And he can explain the Bush administration's policy on civil liberties in the original German.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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InvisiblePsiloKitten
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Registered: 02/13/99
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Re: California's vote was a big disappointment [Re: afoaf]
    #2001022 - 10/11/03 09:08 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Did you hear the Texas Dems walked out again Yesterday because of the redistricting?  They figured since football was so big down here and everyone would be heading up to Dallas from Austin to watch TU lose, Delay wouldnt call out the national guards and Homeland Security till atleast Sunday and they made a break for it.

I'm assuming it is figured in to your republican power grab total, right?

Im waiting till we attack Syria and spread our army out even thinner.. especially with Russia getting involved in that one.  Then the citizens can start catching up.  When they revoke the Posse Comatatus Act and everyone goes bat shit, it'll be like something straight out of a Scorsese(sp?) film.  :rocket:


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Offlinelysergic
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Re: California's vote was a big disappointment [Re: PsiloKitten]
    #2002562 - 10/12/03 03:56 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

I think that, really, Californians couldn't possiblyhave elected a worse governor, except maybe Cruz boooostamante. The porn star could do better than Davis did... Coleman would have done better than Davis. Once again, a hard working white guy wins, and people can't stand that. *Shrug* Cali couldn't be much wose than it is now, so I'm sure we'll know in the next few months wether they made a good decision or not

Just out of curiousity, what is it about Arnold that you don't like?


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In response to an attack killing 15 American Servicemen
PsiloKitten said:
Just give em a little more time, the iraqis are making great progress. And this is unorganized. Wait till they get organized.


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InvisiblePsiloKitten
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Re: California's vote was a big disappointment [Re: lysergic]
    #2002670 - 10/12/03 04:45 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Just out of curiousity, what is it about Arnold that you don't like?

Yer joking me, right? Did you even read my posts or just let your eyes glaze over because I didnt have your same view point?


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Offlinepattern
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Re: California's vote was a big disappointment [Re: carbonhoots]
    #2002709 - 10/12/03 05:05 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

I hope Arnold becomes a cool governor like Jesse Ventura did.


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man = monkey + mushroom


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: California's vote was a big disappointment [Re: pattern]
    #2002730 - 10/12/03 05:16 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

^^^:lol: highly doubtful


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: California's vote was a big disappointment [Re: silversoul7]
    #2004893 - 10/13/03 12:17 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

I made a $20 bet with my dad yesterday.

he says that the governator will have an increased
tax on the indians passed in 6 months.

I told him, if he gets it done at all, I'll consider his
term a success, barring any unforseen disasters
in other areas.

but I'm pretty sure I'll be 20 bux richer come march...


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Offlinelysergic
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Re: California's vote was a big disappointment [Re: afoaf]
    #2005585 - 10/13/03 04:38 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

To have more revenue, you ahve to have taxes. I don't see what Cali is complaining about, I"d fucking LOVE to have their insanely low property taxes


--------------------
In response to an attack killing 15 American Servicemen
PsiloKitten said:
Just give em a little more time, the iraqis are making great progress. And this is unorganized. Wait till they get organized.


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InvisiblePsiloKitten
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Re: California's vote was a big disappointment [Re: lysergic]
    #2005638 - 10/13/03 04:57 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Will you take the insanely high cost of property with that? People who dont live in Cali cant even understand all of this craziness.

That's my opinion.


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: California's vote was a big disappointment [Re: lysergic]
    #2005881 - 10/13/03 06:45 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

your information is wrong.

california has a ridiculous property tax system.

compound that with a ridiculous cost of living
and skyrocketing home prices and you've got
a state that does everything but try to turn
people away with force.


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InvisiblePsiloKitten
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Re: California's vote was a big disappointment [Re: afoaf]
    #2005961 - 10/13/03 07:19 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

We stole this country fair and square!

Ye Gawds.

He wants to tax the indians?

Leave those poor fuckers alone.

You have to be kidding me.. but wait a minute..

I mean, that would make sense. MGM Grand, Paramount.. their casinos need as little competition as possible, now they have a mouthpiece.

I was hoping you were talking about him taxing all of the fucking companies that are importing the fucking valley to New Delhi, India.

Does anyone know if this guy plans to continue doing movies during his governator term?


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: California's vote was a big disappointment [Re: PsiloKitten]
    #2007882 - 10/14/03 10:44 AM (17 years, 1 month ago)

that would be a bonus if he stops making movies.

you're letting your white guilt get the best of you.

what happened happened, should these people be
perpetually allowed to rake money in hand over
fist, marginalizing their own people and poorly
distributing the wealth among the favored members
of the tribe forever?

no.

they need to pay some fucking taxes.

but, then again, so do the big agribusiness and energy
conglomerates that get away with paying nearly nothing
to the state every year.


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InvisiblePsiloKitten
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Re: California's vote was a big disappointment [Re: afoaf]
    #2008674 - 10/14/03 05:15 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

I dunno, I really believe they should leave them alone. It isnt my white guilt. Our country has participated in a form of genocide against the indians since arriving here. I have empathy for that. I have empathy for african americans and for caucasians as well.. they are all just in different areas.

I believe in an ideal society that yeah, they should pay taxes. But there are alot bigger fish to fry and it's just gay to me that this is what he chose to go after.


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: California's vote was a big disappointment [Re: PsiloKitten]
    #2008869 - 10/14/03 06:12 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

arnold motivated the white vote in california:

taxes on indians
repeal licenses for illegals
repeal the car tax

ps. I read Hightower's book, good, but I laughed
and cried more at franken's.

Read James Bovard's "Lost Rights"...that will keep
you up at night.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: California's vote was a big disappointment [Re: afoaf]
    #2008876 - 10/14/03 06:15 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

taxes on indians
repeal licenses for illegals
repeal the car tax



ALL worthwhile goals.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisiblePsiloKitten
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Re: California's vote was a big disappointment [Re: afoaf]
    #2009043 - 10/14/03 07:25 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

I will admit, Hightower's book was just a pretty depressing realization. But, he atleast wrote it in an interesting way. It felt very homey to me. Like campfire stories.

I havent read Franken. Does he present any new ideas, or is it more of a comedy?

/me makes mental note of Bovard.. but honestly, Ive got enough problems sleeping at night already.


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InvisiblePsiloKitten
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Re: California's vote was a big disappointment [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2009046 - 10/14/03 07:26 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

luvdem,

We already know what you think.

I bet I could start writing your responses for you.

I should register a name.. iamluvdemshroomscolddeadheart



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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: California's vote was a big disappointment [Re: PsiloKitten]
    #2009058 - 10/14/03 07:30 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

I havent read Franken. Does he present any new ideas, or is it more of a comedy?



His work is more about pointing out the lies and hypocrisy of prominent right-wing politicians and pundits and making fun of them. The only new idea of his that read was(I assume) done jokingly. He said we could save money on both Social Security and the Space program by sending old people into outer space.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: California's vote was a big disappointment [Re: PsiloKitten]
    #2009112 - 10/14/03 07:45 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

We already know what you think.



Likewise


Quote:

I bet I could start writing your responses for you.



Likewise


Quote:

I should register a name.. iamluvdemshroomscolddeadheart




There you'd be more wrong than even your political views are. You see, I do give, I do help. I just happen to believe it's not the governments place to force me to do so. That's why I appreciated your story about the musical instruments. It was giving to help willingly, not being forcibly robbed of money YOU earned.

That's how it should be.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisiblePsiloKitten
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Registered: 02/13/99
Posts: 1,617
Re: California's vote was a big disappointment [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2009166 - 10/14/03 08:11 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

luv,

Im sorry. Im in a foul mood. I could deal with angry. But Im fighting apathy.

In anycase, I can never tell if you are being sarcastic. Perhaps it is just how Ive come to consider you over time due to our differing viewpoints, not really due to you. I have to constantly recheck my bias, again.. something I have to work on.

I think that the point Im trying to make is, why dont you make that personal decision then? I mean, nothing holds you to paying taxes. I mean, you can choose where your money is spent. Indeed, you still have to spend it. Do you believe that we shouldnt have to give 1 cent for anything if we dont wish to? In that same theory, you would have to pay for those people that didnt want to give any money anyway. Would those people get 911 service? The ability to use the roads? A right to an education?

In our current society, even the lowliest can decide how their money is spent if they make a concerted effort themselves. You can donate money and take deductions. You can then file a slightly more complicated tax return and record all those deductions and get all the money that the govt took from you in the last year. You can get every cent back. You will still have to spend that money, but you can decide exactly where it goes. (There are ways that you dont even have to spend that money, but that gets a little more complicated.)

The system allows you to do exactly what you want to do, unless.. again, you dont think anyone should have to pay money and should get a free ride completely. Or, you tell me how you think it should work. I've had alot of bits and pieces of your theories, but I dunno if Ive ever read it concisely and to the point on this issue.

By being complacent we give power to the government. If everyone took an interested in what they could do.. if everyone decided to spend their money where they wanted next year, imagine the changes that could be given consideration.


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InvisiblePsiloKitten
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Re: California's vote was a big disappointment [Re: PsiloKitten]
    #2012373 - 10/15/03 08:27 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

So..

Since you are so chatty today luv..

can you answer back?


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: California's vote was a big disappointment [Re: PsiloKitten]
    #2012417 - 10/15/03 08:42 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

OK, since you asked so nicely.


Quote:

I think that the point Im trying to make is, why dont you make that personal decision then?



I do. I arrange my finances in a manner so as to pay as little as I legally can.


Quote:

I mean, nothing holds you to paying taxes.



Fear of jail does.


Quote:

I mean, you can choose where your money is spent.



See the first answer.


Quote:

Indeed, you still have to spend it.



I do.


Quote:

Do you believe that we shouldnt have to give 1 cent for anything if we dont wish to?



Only for what is constitutionally mandated.


Quote:

In that same theory, you would have to pay for those people that didnt want to give any money anyway.



See above.


Quote:

Would those people get 911 service? The ability to use the roads? A right to an education?



See above. Also, I don't recall there being a "right" to an education mentioned in the federal constitution. Your examples all fall to the states as far as I'm concerned, although I suppose an arguement could be made for the interstate highway system being necessary for defense and for interstate commerce.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisiblePsiloKitten
Ganja Goddess

Registered: 02/13/99
Posts: 1,617
Re: California's vote was a big disappointment [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2012421 - 10/15/03 08:43 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

I see.


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