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OfflineJackal
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Is this the real life? Or is this just fantasy?
    #1992255 - 10/09/03 04:56 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Are there two worlds? The one that we sense; with our eyes, ears, nose, skin and tongue - the world that we create as individuals. And is there another real but abstract world?

Kinda like abstract and physical arcitectures.

Can anything exist if there is nothing there to 'sense' it?


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Invisiblemr crisper
.

Registered: 07/25/00
Posts: 928
Re: Is this the real life? Or is this just fantasy? [Re: Jackal]
    #1992374 - 10/09/03 06:58 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

how about - our senses are simply receptors that are tuned to receive signals vibrating at certain frequencies.
our ears operate within the spectrum we call sound, but only within a limited range.
eyes - light
touch - matter... remember matter is simply energy vibrating at a high rate (e=mc2)
compare it to having 5 radios and tuning each into 5 different broadcasting stations at the same time. alot of sensory input.
are there other frequencies available to tune into?
i think humans are little arrogant to claim the 5 narrow spectrums of energy we are wired to tune into combine to form the only reality.
it forms our reality and i like it very much.
what do you reckon happens when you have a solid dose of salvia, ayahuasca, etc?



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OfflineJackal
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Re: Is this the real life? Or is this just fantasy? [Re: mr crisper]
    #1992655 - 10/09/03 10:02 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Dunno, I can't get Salvia to work (only ever had dried leaf though) and I underdosed on my only Ayahuasca attempt. Any other analogies?



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OfflineCleverName
the cloudsshould know meby now...

Registered: 08/26/02
Posts: 1,121
Loc: red earth painted with mi...
Last seen: 11 years, 7 months
Re: Is this the real life? Or is this just fantasy? [Re: Jackal]
    #1992678 - 10/09/03 10:16 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

if your blind from birth, you dont dream in pictures or colors...im not sure how it works with the other senses though. i would guess this pysical world is an empirical one, while the world of our ideas and minds are perhiaps more real.


--------------------
if you can't find the truth right where you are, where else do you expect to find it?

this is the purpose


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Offlinelucid
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Registered: 03/29/03
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Re: Is this the real life? Or is this just fantasy? [Re: CleverName]
    #1996572 - 10/10/03 11:33 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Is this the real life?
Is this just fantasy?
Caught in a landslide
No escape from reality
Open your eyes
Look up to the skies and see
I'm just a poor boy, I need no sympathy
Because I'm easy come, easy go
A little high, little low
Anyway the wind blows, doesn't really matter to me, to me


--------------------
"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."


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Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
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Registered: 03/12/02
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Re: Is this the real life? Or is this just fantasy? [Re: lucid]
    #1996585 - 10/10/03 11:37 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Now I know I have heard that before...

hm... mind searching, mind searching...

Tom Petty? :grin: I really have no clue...
Peace.



--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

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Re: Is this the real life? Or is this just fantasy? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1996608 - 10/10/03 11:43 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Queen
Bohemian Rhapsody :smile:

here's the complete lyrics:

Is this the real life?
Is this just fantasy?
Caught in a landslide
No escape from reality
Open your eyes
Look up to the skies and see
I'm just a poor boy, I need no sympathy
Because I'm easy come, easy go
A little high, little low
Anyway the wind blows, doesn't really matter to me, to me

Mama, just killed a man
Put a gun against his head
Pulled my trigger, now he's dead
Mama, life had just begun
But now I've gone and thrown it all away
Mama, ooo
Didn't mean to make you cry
If I'm not back again this time tomorrow
Carry on, carry on, as if nothing really matters

Too late, my time has come
Sends shivers down my spine
Body's aching all the time
Goodbye everybody - I've got to go
Gotta leave you all behind and face the truth
Mama, ooo - (anyway the wind blows)
I don't want to die
I sometimes wish I'd never been born at all

I see a little silhouetto of a man
Scaramouch, scaramouch will you do the fandango
Thunderbolt and lightning - very very frightening me
Gallileo, Gallileo,
Gallileo, Gallileo,
Gallileo Figaro - magnifico

But I'm just a poor boy and nobody loves me
He's just a poor boy from a poor family
Spare him his life from this monstrosity
Easy come easy go - will you let me go
Bismillah! No - we will not let you go - let him go
Bismillah! We will not let you go - let him go
Bismillah! We will not let you go - let me go
Will not let you go - let me go (never)
Never let you go - let me go
Never let me go - ooo
No, no, no, no, no, no, no -
Oh mama mia, mama mia, mama mia let me go
Beelzebub has a devil put aside for me
for me
for me

So you think you can stone me and spit in my eye
So you think you can love me and leave me to die
Oh baby - can't do this to me baby
Just gotta get out - just gotta get right outta here

Ooh yeah, ooh yeah
Nothing really matters
Anyone can see
Nothing really matters - nothing really matters to me

Anyway the wind blows...


--------------------
"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."


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Anonymous

Re: Is this the real life? Or is this just fantasy? [Re: Jackal]
    #1996615 - 10/10/03 11:45 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

nothing exist that cannot be known.

in some fashion, anyway.


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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

Registered: 03/29/03
Posts: 6,319
Loc: up on the bidet
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Re: Is this the real life? Or is this just fantasy? [Re: ]
    #1996655 - 10/10/03 11:59 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

immaculate said:
nothing exist that cannot be known.

in some fashion, anyway.



No offense, but as nice as that sounds, it doesn't say
very much...
Existance is being defined in that context
as that which can be known...
what do the terms "existance" and "known" mean ?
To "know" implies that it can be experienced.
When we say a thing "Exists" we're implying that
it can be experienced (either directly or indirectly).


--------------------
"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."


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Anonymous

Re: Is this the real life? Or is this just fantasy? [Re: lucid]
    #1996662 - 10/10/03 12:01 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

if something exists, it can be known. they go hand in hand.

maybe not experienced by you, but by something.

how can something exist if its existence cant be validated?

i think that defies quantum mechanics, or something, doesn it?

edit; fucking typos.


Edited by Anonymous (10/10/03 12:10 PM)


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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

Registered: 03/29/03
Posts: 6,319
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Re: Is this the real life? Or is this just fantasy? [Re: ]
    #1996679 - 10/10/03 12:09 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

immaculate said:
if something exists,  it can be known.  they go hand in hand.




um, that's exactly what I was saying :rolleyes:
hence my comment that the statement wasn't really
saying much...
i.e. it wasn't something that made me re-examine my
entire conciousness and vaporize in a blast of Satori...
which is what I expect from the enlightened folks
at S&P :grin: 


--------------------
"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."


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Offlinemanna_man
High onlife.....andcrack

Registered: 06/10/03
Posts: 481
Loc: Vancouver
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
Re: Is this the real life? Or is this just fantasy? [Re: lucid]
    #1997460 - 10/10/03 03:56 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)


"Can anything exist if there is nothing there to 'sense' it? "


Sounds like the ancient zen saying:
If a tree falls in the woods, and there is no one around to hear it, does it make a sound?

I would say no. Sound is something that (presumably) exists only within humans and animals. If the tree falls and there are no ears to hear the sound, the sound would not exist. Therefore the sound only exists if it is verified by the hearer.

For us, I would say that reality has to be percieved to exist. However,
we all create our own realities. Therefore, I believe there exists the innumerable subjective realities and what is the "actual" reality, what is "really" there.


--------------------
This post is protected under copyrite law.All above content is strictly the property of ?manna_man.Any infringement of copyright property is strictly prohibited.Any violators will be stretched, shot, and then vaporized into a state of anti-matter, where they will cease to exist.


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InvisibleHal8000
Stranger

Registered: 09/25/03
Posts: 170
Re: Is this the real life? Or is this just fantasy? [Re: manna_man]
    #1998212 - 10/10/03 07:20 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

No no, sound exists no matter who preceives, or hears it... at least the energy that creates this sound. The energy in the universe is exactly the way it is no matter how you look at it.

Say I'm in this room, and everything appears to me in one way, this is my so called reality. Then I bring in say a wolf, he comes in and his reality and preception of the world is completly different. He does not see color, his sence of smell is 500x better than mine, and his ears are way better at picking up even the smallest sound. What he is seeing, smelling and hearing exists regardless of the fact that I see it or smell it, and what I see is there regardless of the fact that he does not see it.

Things don't just exist because you see or smell them, they exist because they are there...


--------------------
if every1 were exactly the same as every1 else there wood be no war


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Offlinemanna_man
High onlife.....andcrack

Registered: 06/10/03
Posts: 481
Loc: Vancouver
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
Re: Is this the real life? Or is this just fantasy? [Re: Hal8000]
    #1998450 - 10/10/03 09:04 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

'Things don't just exist because you see or smell them, they exist because they are there... "

How can somethings "thereness" be justified if there is nothing to justify it? Subjectively, an object's "thereness" is a result of a perceiver. "In front of me, there is a computer." For me, in my own reality, the computer would not exist, or rather, I would not know of it's existence without the senses.
Let's say I was in a coma, and there was a computer in front of me. To me, the computer is not there, yet on the objective plane, it is, but not in the sense of being "there".
It depends if the reality you are referring to is the subjective or ultimate.
The latter is impossible to know, whereas the former is the only option we are given with only 5 senses.


--------------------
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OfflineTasty_Smurf_House
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Registered: 08/20/03
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Re: Is this the real life? Or is this just fantasy? [Re: manna_man]
    #1998610 - 10/10/03 10:20 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

So crucify the ego, before it's far too late
To leave behind this place so negative and blind and cynical,
And you will come to find that we are all one mind
Capable of all that's imagined and all conceivable.
Just let the light touch you
And let the words spill through
And let them pass right through
Bringing out our hope and reason ...
before we pine away.


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InvisibleFloydseamus
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Registered: 05/20/02
Posts: 1,951
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Re: Is this the real life? Or is this just fantasy? [Re: Tasty_Smurf_House]
    #2002272 - 10/12/03 12:52 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

ahhhh tool.... excellent quote...


--------------------


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OfflineOook
Oook!

Registered: 08/19/03
Posts: 533
Loc: England
Last seen: 12 years, 10 months
Re: Is this the real life? Or is this just fantasy? [Re: Floydseamus]
    #2002674 - 10/12/03 04:47 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Manna man zen questions are not meant to have answers, trying to intelectualise a question that is not meant to have an answer defies the point.

Reality is just the point from when you are born to when you die.


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