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Invisiblebloodworm
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Re: Panaeolus fimicola. [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #19892489 - 04/24/14 10:33 AM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Alan Rockefeller said:
I would blame the sequences in genbank, it's not enough to just use the name they have, you have to study the collections the dna came from.




exactly.

i bet 90% of them could be thrown in the trash...


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Invisiblebloodworm
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Re: Panaeolus fimicola. [Re: The Lightning]
    #19898299 - 04/25/14 12:41 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

The Lightning said:
Nice work! Did you test the sulphidia cell(s) using sulphovanillin?

http://fungus.org.uk/nwfg/chemdec99.htm




i am working on getting it...







Gerhardt diagrams...





workman...

https://sporeworks.com/photo_gallery.php?cid=6


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InvisibleThe Lightning
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Re: Panaeolus fimicola. [Re: bloodworm]
    #19898340 - 04/25/14 12:52 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)



In case it helps...

Please note that a fresh mixture is used in some tests. Older mixtures may not provide the same color change(s).


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InvisibleByrain

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Re: Panaeolus fimicola. [Re: The Lightning]
    #19898425 - 04/25/14 01:10 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

I'm not sure how much I want to be handling sulfuric acid, kind of like how some fly experts use cyanide to euthanize their specimens...


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Invisiblebloodworm
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Re: Panaeolus fimicola. [Re: Byrain]
    #19898432 - 04/25/14 01:11 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Byrain said:
I'm not sure how much I want to be handling sulfuric acid, kind of like how some fly experts use cyanide to euthanize their specimens...




i won't be making it...


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InvisibleThe Lightning
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Re: Panaeolus fimicola. [Re: Byrain]
    #19898453 - 04/25/14 01:15 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Yes, safety is first!


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Invisiblebloodworm
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Re: Panaeolus fimicola. [Re: The Lightning]
    #19898470 - 04/25/14 01:18 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

also, i have a friend in Germany translating the Gerhardt text on sulphidia...


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InvisibleByrain

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Re: Panaeolus fimicola. [Re: bloodworm]
    #19898497 - 04/25/14 01:24 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Did you send your friend the bit at the beginning of the book too?

Quote:

Der dritte Zystidentyp, der bei gewissen Arten an
den Lamellenflächen auftritt (Pleurozystiden), sind farblose
(z.T. auch gelbliche) Zystiden mit lichtbrechendem Inhalt.
Diese wurden bisher als „Chrysozystiden" bezeichnet. Sie
entsprechen aber nicht ganz der Definition einer
Chrysozystide, da sie sich in KOH nicht gelb färben (vgl.
Hypholoma oder Stropharia), sondern von vornherein
gelblich sind oder farblos bleiben. Sie werden in Sul-
phovanillin schön weinrot, weshalb ich sie „Sulphidien"
nenne (Abb. 4 a-e). Ihr Vorhandensein oder Fehlen ist für die
sichere Unterscheidung bestimmter Arten von ausschlaggebender
Bedeutung.




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InvisibleThe Lightning
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Re: Panaeolus fimicola. [Re: bloodworm]
    #19898503 - 04/25/14 01:25 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Cool, I was able to get a couple sentences translated a few weeks ago the same way:

E. Gerhardt, in his monograph on Panaeolus (Taxonomische revision der gattungen Panaeolus und Panaeolina, Bibliotheca Botanica 47, 1996), defines sulphidia as follows (translation from German):

"There are pleurocystidia, so far called chrysocystidia but not matching this definition as they do not stain yellow with KOH (unlike Stropharia and Hypholoma), but they are yellowish from the very beginning or keep uncolored. They become a beautiful red wine in sulphovanillin, consequently they are called sulphidia."


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Invisiblebloodworm
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Re: Panaeolus fimicola. [Re: The Lightning]
    #19898555 - 04/25/14 01:38 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Byrain said:
Did you send your friend the bit at the beginning of the book too?

Quote:

Der dritte Zystidentyp, der bei gewissen Arten an
den Lamellenflächen auftritt (Pleurozystiden), sind farblose
(z.T. auch gelbliche) Zystiden mit lichtbrechendem Inhalt.
Diese wurden bisher als „Chrysozystiden" bezeichnet. Sie
entsprechen aber nicht ganz der Definition einer
Chrysozystide, da sie sich in KOH nicht gelb färben (vgl.
Hypholoma oder Stropharia), sondern von vornherein
gelblich sind oder farblos bleiben. Sie werden in Sul-
phovanillin schön weinrot, weshalb ich sie „Sulphidien"
nenne (Abb. 4 a-e). Ihr Vorhandensein oder Fehlen ist für die
sichere Unterscheidung bestimmter Arten von ausschlaggebender
Bedeutung.







yes.
what else??

Quote:

The Lightning said:
Cool, I was able to get a couple sentences translated a few weeks ago the same way:

E. Gerhardt, in his monograph on Panaeolus (Taxonomische revision der gattungen Panaeolus und Panaeolina, Bibliotheca Botanica 47, 1996), defines sulphidia as follows (translation from German):

"There are pleurocystidia, so far called chrysocystidia but not matching this definition as they do not stain yellow with KOH (unlike Stropharia and Hypholoma), but they are yellowish from the very beginning or keep uncolored. They become a beautiful red wine in sulphovanillin, consequently they are called sulphidia."




i do not think this is a correct translation...


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InvisibleJoust
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Re: Panaeolus fimicola. [Re: bloodworm]
    #19898665 - 04/25/14 02:03 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Awesome stuff Blood, those sure are just like the "sulphidia" I am finding in my collections.
Ill have to check with my proffesor today, I might be able to get that chem for us.


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: Panaeolus fimicola. [Re: Byrain]
    #19899070 - 04/25/14 03:22 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Byrain said:
I'm not sure how much I want to be handling sulfuric acid, kind of like how some fly experts use cyanide to euthanize their specimens...





Concentrated sulfuric acid is easy to handle safely. 

The reason most people don't have sulfo-vanillin is that it only stays good for a week or 2.


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InvisibleGravija
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Re: Panaeolus fimicola. [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #19901266 - 04/25/14 11:24 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Not even that long. You mix it in a watch glass as you use it.


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