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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Registered: 10/10/02
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Online voting
    #1988769 - 10/08/03 01:30 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

On the long, tiring hike to the polls today(I don't have a car, and the polling place wasn't near any bus routes that I know of, plus I got a little lost at first trying to find the place), as I stopped to catch my breath, I thought to myself, "God, if only I could do this online!" I was wondering what everyone thinks of this. I can see the pros and cons of it. On the positive side, it would make voting a lot more convenient for a lot of people(particularly broke college students such as myself), which would make people more motivated to vote, therefore increasing voter turnout and moving towards a more democratic society. The main argument against this that I can think of is that it would be fairly easy to tamper with, but not any more so than the electronic ballots that many states are already implementing. Thoughts?


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Offlinewingnutx
Registered: 09/25/00
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Re: Online voting [Re: silversoul7]
    #1988791 - 10/08/03 01:35 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

i dont trust any poll that doesn't have a paper trail.


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Invisiblez@z.com
Libertarian
Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 2,876
Loc: ATL
Re: Online voting [Re: silversoul7]
    #1988854 - 10/08/03 01:55 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I think voting should be inconvenient and time consuming. Keeps those who don't care or know enough about what they are voting for away from the polls. I don't think that democracy should be something to strive for.


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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


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Offlinehongomon
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Re: Online voting [Re: z@z.com]
    #1988924 - 10/08/03 02:22 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I think we should all have to paint a mural showing the candidates of our choice.


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Offlinehongomon
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Re: Online voting [Re: silversoul7]
    #1988934 - 10/08/03 02:26 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

What if there were two or three options at each polling station, like electronic, paper, or scanner--or would that be too chaotic?

btw, you can pick up a decent used bike for a hundred or so, and then you're set.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Online voting [Re: z@z.com]
    #1988939 - 10/08/03 02:28 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

That's a rather elitist thing to say, and pretty easy to say if you have a car. It's not like the people who do take the time and effort to vote aren't mostly ignorant, mindless, naive dumbasses as well. Time and effort have no bearing on intelligence. Besides, people who have a car didn't have to go to all the trouble I went through to get to the polls.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Online voting [Re: wingnutx]
    #1988941 - 10/08/03 02:30 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

wingnutx said:
i dont trust any poll that doesn't have a paper trail.



Nor do I, but we're already moving in that direction anyway with the electronic voting machines being implemented now. I figure as long as we're already doing electronic voting, we might as well make it so you can do it online.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Offlinemonoamine
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Re: Online voting [Re: silversoul7]
    #1989084 - 10/08/03 03:38 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

With the way the average fucktard impliments computer security (read:none),I think online voting is a very bad idea currently.

Like Wingnut said,there's no paper trail.There's also ways to intercept things en route,computer fuck ups,denial of service attacks,etc,etc,etc

...all around bad idea.


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People think that if you just say the word "hallucinations" it explains everything you want it to explain and eventually whatever it is you can't explain will just go away.It's just a word,it doesn't explain anything...
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InvisibleSteinM
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Re: Online voting [Re: silversoul7]
    #1989177 - 10/08/03 05:00 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Yep, definitely need paper/proof trail. I can?t see online or computer voting ever being trusted. The outcome of every election will always be questioned by the opposite party.





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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Online voting [Re: silversoul7]
    #1989225 - 10/08/03 05:46 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Can't you just mail in your vote like people have been doing for years?


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: Online voting [Re: wingnutx]
    #1989350 - 10/08/03 07:47 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Whats so safe about a paper trail? You are basically saying that we cant use electronic voting because there are people who will attempt to rig elections. People can still rig paper elections you know. As ever its not the technology thats the problem just those who use it.


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Always Smi2le


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Online voting [Re: silversoul7]
    #1989383 - 10/08/03 08:49 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I think it's a terrible idea to have it done on line, the computer hackers would run rampant.


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America....FUCK YEAH!!!

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Offlinewingnutx
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Re: Online voting [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1989807 - 10/08/03 01:08 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

2 million people just mailed in ballots in the California election. They had to go through the arduous task of requesting an absentee ballot, though. Last time I did that it took me almost 3 minutes on the web! My clicker finger was very sore.


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Invisiblez@z.com
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Registered: 10/13/02
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Re: Online voting [Re: wingnutx]
    #1991471 - 10/08/03 11:29 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Yup. I voted by mail in the last election too. Not hard at all to do. I wasn't trying to be an "elitist" I just simply think voting should be something you plan to do in advance and not just something you log onto the internet to do at the last minute.


--------------------
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: Online voting [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1992434 - 10/09/03 07:45 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Think of all the credit card and other financial transactions that take place 24hrs a day online. A system could be devised with a very high level of security. Any system online or off is open to attack from those with motive.

The good thing about online voting is we could start to move towards a system where people vote more on issues rather than just having one vote every four years to select which party makes all the decisions. For instance if the UK had voted on Iraq we probabaly would not have got involved. Obviously the US would have but would the people back the $87 billion that the government want to spend now? I doubt it..
Anyway Iraq aside I think the current system of democracy is arachaic and needs to be updated. With the technology we have now we could start to let people take a greater role in government.


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Offlinest0nedphucker
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Re: Online voting [Re: GazzBut]
    #1992484 - 10/09/03 08:39 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Support for the war was actually quite high before the war began. Online voting is a good idea in principle but we seem to have enough difficulty dealing with ballot papers and actually getting people to vote, perhaps online voting would encourage people...
As for people getting more involved I think its a good idea but the majority of decisions should be left to people who are qualified to make them, not just people who pick-up a newspaper and base their judgement upon it......


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The punishment which the wise suffer, who refuse to take part in government, is to live under the government of worse men.


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Online voting [Re: GazzBut]
    #1992518 - 10/09/03 09:05 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

For instance if the UK had voted on Iraq we probabaly would not have got involved.




The only problem with this MOB RULE mentality is just that: MOB RULE. Let me make this clear, we are not a democracy rather a representative rupublic. I will agree that some issues should be voted by the people directly but national security would be a bad idea.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: Online voting [Re: st0nedphucker]
    #1993414 - 10/09/03 03:12 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

the majority of decisions should be left to people who are qualified to make them, not just people who pick-up a newspaper and base their judgement upon it......




Perhaps people would be more inclined to educate themselves on the pros and cons of various issues if they were involved in more of the decisions.

Besides, the way I see it you would still need parties to propose the ideas to put to the people and these people who you say are more qualified to make these decisions rarely agree so both could present their arguements to the people who could then vote to decide.

I think this would be especially effective on local issues. If communities as a whole voted on issues that effect them directly I am sure they would be much more inclined to get involved. I also think that most people would be likely to vote for initiatives that benefit the community as a whole. This way would make it much more difficult for powerful minority groups to push throught agendas that benefit a few, sometimes to the detriment of the majority.


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: Online voting [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1993440 - 10/09/03 03:16 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

The only problem with this MOB RULE mentality is just that: MOB RULE.




It is hardly mob rule. Elected officials would have to get their proposals ratified by the people. That is not mob rule.

Quote:

I will agree that some issues should be voted by the people directly but national security would be a bad idea.





Why exactly would it be a bad idea? Two political parties rarely agree on the best ways to achieve national security. Perhaps their differing view points should be put to the people?


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Online voting [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1994085 - 10/09/03 05:57 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Innvertigo said:
Quote:

For instance if the UK had voted on Iraq we probabaly would not have got involved.




The only problem with this MOB RULE mentality is just that: MOB RULE. Let me make this clear, we are not a democracy rather a representative rupublic. I will agree that some issues should be voted by the people directly but national security would be a bad idea.



God, this whole "America is not a Democracy" shit is getting old. Yes, it's a Constitutionally Limited Republic, but do we or do we not vote politicians into office? And do we or do we not vote on ballot measures? And isn't voting(where the will of the majority is supposed to decide) an inherently democratic idea?


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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