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Offlineendogenous
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Re: do you think that meth psychosis can actually give you a glimpse into the spirtitual realm? [Re: endogenous]
    #19830871 - 04/12/14 12:04 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Another person, who o.d.'d on heroin, said the o.d. was just like DMT.

Many people who have had near death experiences have described things that are very similar to DMT.


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The Day of the Lord has come like a thief in the night. -- It is there but no one knows it.


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OfflineFeelter
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Re: do you think that meth psychosis can actually give you a glimpse into the spirtitual realm? [Re: endogenous]
    #19830951 - 04/12/14 12:31 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

endogenous said:
Spiritual? Yes - but what kind of spirit?




:thumbup:

As McKenna said: lab drugs tend to bring out the "demonic" side of spiritualism.
John Lilly almost died while experimenting with Ketamine. Which reminded him that he was dealing with a substance more close to coke and heroin than to psychedelics.

Lab drugs are mostly for getting fucked up. They are not useful for personal growth. They always take more than what they give back.


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OfflineOH1Ogrown
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Re: do you think that meth psychosis can actually give you a glimpse into the spirtitual realm? [Re: Feelter]
    #19831912 - 04/12/14 09:12 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

So... what you're saying is... humanity is the lab drug of nature... lol


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: do you think that meth psychosis can actually give you a glimpse into the spirtitual realm? [Re: endogenous]
    #19832509 - 04/12/14 12:17 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

endogenous said:
Another person, who o.d.'d on heroin, said the o.d. was just like DMT.




I've had the misfortune of ODing on H several times, as well as knowing friends who have, and this is bullshit IMO for the vast majority of overdoses.  You generally experience just a rapidly increasing euphoria, then nothingness-- you wake up several hours later with a really fuzzy mind and little to no memory of anything for the past time because you were unconscious.  :shrug:

Quote:

Feelter said:
Quote:

endogenous said:
Spiritual? Yes - but what kind of spirit?




:thumbup:

As McKenna said: lab drugs tend to bring out the "demonic" side of spiritualism.
John Lilly almost died while experimenting with Ketamine. Which reminded him that he was dealing with a substance more close to coke and heroin than to psychedelics.

Lab drugs are mostly for getting fucked up. They are not useful for personal growth. They always take more than what they give back.




Natural vs. synthetic / lab vs. organic is a silly distinction to draw when trying to classify safe vs. non-safe drugs.  LSD has produced tens of thousands of beneficial, enlightening experiences, and it is made in a lab.  Datura is a natural, organic plant, and has resulted in frightening delirium, poisoning, and schizophrenic psychosis for many, many people.


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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Offlineendogenous
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Re: do you think that meth psychosis can actually give you a glimpse into the spirtitual realm? [Re: deCypher]
    #19833657 - 04/12/14 04:23 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Some people who have near death experiences remember nothing (whether it's from o.d.ing or something else). Those who do remember describe something that is very similar to Psychedelics.

In fact, some people have strong Psychedelic experiences which they talk about during the time, and then, afterwards, remember nothing. I've seen this happen.


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: do you think that meth psychosis can actually give you a glimpse into the spirtitual realm? [Re: endogenous]
    #19833684 - 04/12/14 04:27 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

To be sure, it's possible all overdoses involve DMT-like experiences and it's just that we don't remember it, but there has been at least one study that I can recall that points out multiple differences between the DMT experience and the near-death experience.  It would be awesome if being that close to death stimulates a massive release of endogenously-produced DMT, but the experiences just seem too dissimilar to be identical.  :shrug2:


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Offlineendogenous
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Re: do you think that meth psychosis can actually give you a glimpse into the spirtitual realm? [Re: deCypher]
    #19835554 - 04/12/14 11:51 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

That's why I said that near-death-experiences are like Psychedelics rather than DMT. However, this particular person said the heroin o.d. was "exactly" like DMT - and he was definitely in a position to know.


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OfflineFeelter
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Re: do you think that meth psychosis can actually give you a glimpse into the spirtitual realm? [Re: deCypher]
    #19836235 - 04/13/14 04:44 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:

Natural vs. synthetic / lab vs. organic is a silly distinction to draw when trying to classify safe vs. non-safe drugs.  LSD has produced tens of thousands of beneficial, enlightening experiences, and it is made in a lab.  Datura is a natural, organic plant, and has resulted in frightening delirium, poisoning, and schizophrenic psychosis for many, many people.



I agree.. but you have to accept that LSD and MDMA are exceptions when we talk about lab drugs. The vast majority of them is on the harmful side, with little benefits.


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: do you think that meth psychosis can actually give you a glimpse into the spirtitual realm? [Re: SpecialEd]
    #19836581 - 04/13/14 08:34 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

SpecialEd said:
Idk something about continually taking a phenethylamine for days without until you've reached a fastened state, a state where you are no longer grounded into the physical realm...

I've had lots of meth trips that have had a spiritual theme before.




Not sure about the spiritual because I wouldn't touch the stuff.  However, after cleaning up after the tweekers on my new property, if that's how meth "makes" you no thanks.  Shitting in 5 gallon buckets, porn everywhere, rocks everywhere, filth everywhere, garbage strewn everywhere, 60+ TVs, 100 VCRs and DVD players, tweeker trailers x 5 full of garbage.  Filled nine (9) forty (40) yard construction dumpsters to the brim.


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Offlineendogenous
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Re: do you think that meth psychosis can actually give you a glimpse into the spirtitual realm? [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #19841367 - 04/14/14 01:29 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

SpecialEd said:
Idk something about continually taking a phenethylamine for days without until you've reached a fastened state, a state where you are no longer grounded into the physical realm...

I've had lots of meth trips that have had a spiritual theme before.




I think of amphetamines as isopropyl amines.



This is a phenyl ethyl amine:



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OfflineSpecialEd
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Re: do you think that meth psychosis can actually give you a glimpse into the spirtitual realm? [Re: endogenous]
    #19851451 - 04/15/14 10:57 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

I think of them as Alpha Methyl Phenethylamines...which is abbreviated to amphetamines.

there's no getting around the phenethylamine...


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Offlineendogenous
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Re: do you think that meth psychosis can actually give you a glimpse into the spirtitual realm? [Re: SpecialEd]
    #19851861 - 04/16/14 01:13 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

This is from http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/mescaline/mescaline_journal7.shtml. Notice that they call amphetamine "isopropylamine", not "alpha methyl phenethylamine". This may seem like nit picking, but I think there's a subconscious spiritual reason for it. -- Mescaline is a phenethylamine and is not an amphetamine (isopropyl amine). Amphetamine is an isopropylamine.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

MESCALINE ANALOGS

Variations of the substitution pattern of the methoxyl groups within this generalization of a three-carbon chain optimum, have led to extensive changes in potency. Using 13 as a parent structure, there are five possible positional isomers. These have been synthesized (28) and clinically evaluated in man (29). The first of these positional isomers (2,4,5-trimethoxyphenylisopropylamine, TMA-2, 15) is also related to a series of essential oils, the unconjugated 2,4,5-



trimethoxy- l-allylbenzene found in Caesulia axillaries (30) and the conjugated counterpart in a number of species of Asarum and Acorus (31). The isomer has proven to be the most potent of all six, with an effective dosage level of 20 mg, about a twentieth that required for effective mescaline intoxication. The vicinal analog (2,3,4-tiimethoxyphenylisopropylamine, TMA-3, 16) has neither natural counterparts nor central activity.


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The Day of the Lord has come like a thief in the night. -- It is there but no one knows it.


Edited by endogenous (04/16/14 01:43 AM)


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OfflineSpecialEd
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Re: do you think that meth psychosis can actually give you a glimpse into the spirtitual realm? [Re: endogenous]
    #19851889 - 04/16/14 01:23 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)



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OfflineCaddilac
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Re: do you think that meth psychosis can actually give you a glimpse into the spirtitual realm? [Re: SpecialEd]
    #19857427 - 04/16/14 11:22 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

whoa


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