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Invisibleblindingleaf
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Re: Culturing Tech • Agar containers, "Grain Petri" Tek, Invitro growing & Sterile Spore Printing! [Re: northview]
    #19670787 - 03/09/14 07:30 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

not sure.  the soonest i've ever taken them out is 3 hours after 0psi was hit.  i twisted shut right away, after inspecting them to see if water got in, as i took them out, it was fine.


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A few thoughts on cultivation
MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!!

The whole is greater than the sum of its parts


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Offlinesupernewfie
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Re: Culturing Tech • Agar containers, "Grain Petri" Tek, Invitro growing & Sterile Spore Printing! [Re: blindingleaf]
    #19721013 - 03/19/14 08:47 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

I'm guessing violet don't be around here anymore.... I just had a question about grass seed, where its such a thin/small "grain" I guess, would it be possible to steam sterilize without a PC, whereas thicker grains like rye/brown rice/WBS its necessary for one, I was just wondering could you get away with not using a PC with the seed


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Invisibleblindingleaf
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Re: Culturing Tech • Agar containers, "Grain Petri" Tek, Invitro growing & Sterile Spore Printing! [Re: supernewfie]
    #19721131 - 03/19/14 09:08 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

u can steam sterilize any grain, i t just takes a long time.  maybe with RGS it would not take as long as rye berries, but still at least 5 hours or so.  why would u want to risk it tho, did ur PC break?
and I have seen violet around within last day or two! so maybe she will have better answer, but IMO just PC them.


--------------------
A few thoughts on cultivation
MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!!

The whole is greater than the sum of its parts


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Offlinesupernewfie
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Re: Culturing Tech • Agar containers, "Grain Petri" Tek, Invitro growing & Sterile Spore Printing! [Re: blindingleaf]
    #19721165 - 03/19/14 09:14 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

ive had rye grass seed that was just a little smaller rye berries, but this lawn seed is almost paper thin when you look at it. and no I never had a PC and still have yet to get one when I get income..
Just got a bag of untreated/uncoated grass seed today though and wanted to figure out if its possible to sterilize without a PC and an overly long sterilization time


Edited by supernewfie (03/19/14 09:19 PM)


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InvisibleViolet
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Re: Culturing Tech • Agar containers, "Grain Petri" Tek, Invitro growing & Sterile Spore Printing! [Re: supernewfie]
    #19721201 - 03/19/14 09:21 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

I think it could be done with a pretty good success rate.

On a number of occasions I've thrown in unprepared seed with coir bulk sub mixes - yes, non-hydrated grain in a bulk sub - and pasteurized it very thoroughly, inoculating Into the myco-bag the sub was treated in.

That would possibly be foolish with other grains, but somehow I knew before I did it that it would work with grass seed.
The reasoning is mainly exactly the one you mentioned - the seed is so thin and tiny. It didn't have to be hydrated for similar reasons that BRF isn't hydrated when mixed into wet verm for PF cakes.

All that said... I wouldn't recommend it.
Grass seed in plastic containers would still need to be steam sterilized for much longer than it would have to be sterilized at pressure.
Although it would be an easy experiment to see how short of a time period sterilizes different grains (in various containers, too) since the partially-sterilized grains smell quite sour in a week or so.
My guess is that 4 hours could do it for sure. Maybe less, maybe more. Dunno, it's just a guess.


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Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
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Offlinesupernewfie
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Re: Culturing Tech • Agar containers, "Grain Petri" Tek, Invitro growing & Sterile Spore Printing! [Re: Violet]
    #19721306 - 03/19/14 09:48 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

alright, that sounds like something I could possibly try and work with. thanks for the honest answer, i'm gonna try and do some up later this week!


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OfflineGlazedHazels
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Re: Culturing Tech • Agar containers, "Grain Petri" Tek, Invitro growing & Sterile Spore Printing! [Re: supernewfie]
    #19846755 - 04/14/14 11:51 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Awesome tek!

Quick question, how much condensation would you say coats the walls of these containers. Mine had a bunch because they tipped over. I tried more than 8. :c


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InvisibleJ. Jack Flash
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Re: Culturing Tech • Agar containers, "Grain Petri" Tek, Invitro growing & Sterile Spore Printing! [Re: GlazedHazels]
    #19847437 - 04/15/14 06:32 AM (9 years, 9 months ago)

i've found condensation is unavoidable, but not detrimental.  just makes it hard to see.


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the j stands for jesus.
2020 new years grow along


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InvisibleMudaFuka
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Re: Culturing Tech • Agar containers, "Grain Petri" Tek, Invitro growing & Sterile Spore Printing! [Re: J. Jack Flash]
    #19848025 - 04/15/14 10:41 AM (9 years, 9 months ago)

I have done a few of these screw top PP5 grows and I always get a shit tone of condensation after about 50% colonisation. I've got some pan cyans on a mix of grass seed and WBS in some screw tops and the walls are quite fogged up but I don't see it being a problem.


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AMU
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Liquid Inoculant Tek                                   
                     


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InvisibleImperfect Iam
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Re: Culturing Tech • Agar containers, "Grain Petri" Tek, Invitro growing & Sterile Spore Printing! [Re: MudaFuka]
    #19848347 - 04/15/14 12:02 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

I have had nothing but bad luck using WGBR, any of you guys come up with a good method? I got one to about 60% colonization, and it stalled, so I shook,(as I found out later, this is a no no)! But what ends up happening, is I give a little twist, to let some GE,  and the rice gets some kind of bacteria that turns it into a brown, fucked up slimy mess! I'm thinking a whole in the lid needs to be done, what are your guys thoughts?


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All you touch, and all you see, is all your life will ever be- Pink Floyd

Life is what happens while you're busy making other plans- John Lennon


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Offlinesupernewfie
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Re: Culturing Tech • Agar containers, "Grain Petri" Tek, Invitro growing & Sterile Spore Printing! [Re: Imperfect Iam]
    #19848383 - 04/15/14 12:08 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

heres a container of grass seed I have, I would say another week or so n it will be fully colonized, the surface is completely covered, and the sides are thickening up and the bottom is coming along nicely.

you can see there's come condensation on the sides and its been like it shortly after noticing colonization


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InvisibleImperfect Iam
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Re: Culturing Tech • Agar containers, "Grain Petri" Tek, Invitro growing & Sterile Spore Printing! [Re: supernewfie]
    #19848426 - 04/15/14 12:18 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Are you using her method for prep, and do you have a hole in the lid, or did you manage to do that w/ o it stalling? Or have you done a little twist for GE, or did you manage to get that w/o fucking with any of that?


--------------------
All you touch, and all you see, is all your life will ever be- Pink Floyd

Life is what happens while you're busy making other plans- John Lennon


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Offlinesupernewfie
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Re: Culturing Tech • Agar containers, "Grain Petri" Tek, Invitro growing & Sterile Spore Printing! [Re: Imperfect Iam]
    #19848460 - 04/15/14 12:24 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

i left the cover open a crack, I found it grew a lot faster than when I had it sealed... i never used a pressure cooker though I don't own one... I prepped it a little different as well... i kinda went freestyle when I done this lol not recommended but so far so good


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InvisibleImperfect Iam
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Re: Culturing Tech • Agar containers, "Grain Petri" Tek, Invitro growing & Sterile Spore Printing! [Re: supernewfie]
    #19848517 - 04/15/14 12:36 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Cool, yeah, IDK WTF, is up with the brown slimy funk I have gotten in all but one of mg original, V- teks, ah well, live and learn!


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All you touch, and all you see, is all your life will ever be- Pink Floyd

Life is what happens while you're busy making other plans- John Lennon


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InvisibleJ. Jack Flash
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Re: Culturing Tech • Agar containers, "Grain Petri" Tek, Invitro growing & Sterile Spore Printing! [Re: Imperfect Iam]
    #19850381 - 04/15/14 06:23 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

personally only ever used rice, and yeah it's tricky to get the hydration right without getting sticky.  also done a fair number of these cups, with rice, and haven't yet had an issue reaching 100%.  i've gone back and forth with cracking the lids and haven't really noticed much difference in speed.  violet explicitly stated leave them sealed until it's time to case.

in any case, i've only had one contam on my first set ever.  a tiny green spot on the edge.  keep at it, i guess.  brown slimy shit  sounds like it was too wet to begin with, but ?

last i'll say is the last grain prep i did, it was 10 one-quart mason jars.  i had to beat em silly to get the grain to separate.  rice can suck.


--------------------
 
the j stands for jesus.
2020 new years grow along


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Offlinesupernewfie
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Re: Culturing Tech • Agar containers, "Grain Petri" Tek, Invitro growing & Sterile Spore Printing! [Re: J. Jack Flash]
    #19850423 - 04/15/14 06:29 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

yeah well I guess the only reason why I thought I noticed a big difference was because in the early stages of colonization I was going back and fourth cracking and closing the lid.. it was probably just getting it's grip on the seed at that point... this past 4 or 5 days it's been cracked, and its colonizing fast but it probably would have done the same if it was closed either way


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InvisibleMudaFuka
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Re: Culturing Tech • Agar containers, "Grain Petri" Tek, Invitro growing & Sterile Spore Printing! [Re: J. Jack Flash]
    #19850446 - 04/15/14 06:32 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

I've left them sealed with cubes no problem but my pans moved slow as hell until I cracked the lids. Then they just took off.


--------------------
AMU
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InvisibleJ. Jack Flash
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Re: Culturing Tech • Agar containers, "Grain Petri" Tek, Invitro growing & Sterile Spore Printing! [Re: MudaFuka]
    #19850630 - 04/15/14 07:13 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

well fuck me.  i dropped pan wedges on four third-full zipjars 4/2 and only one is very close to 100%.  i think i'll go crack the lids now, maybe i can spawn them this weekend.

thanks, mudafuka.


--------------------
 
the j stands for jesus.
2020 new years grow along


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InvisibleImperfect Iam
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Re: Culturing Tech • Agar containers, "Grain Petri" Tek, Invitro growing & Sterile Spore Printing! [Re: J. Jack Flash]
    #19850755 - 04/15/14 07:47 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

How are you doing your rice j jflash, I have a bunch, and would really appreciate the help, as you sound as if you are doing great with it, are you using gypsum? Just a question, I know the tek don't call out for it, man, if you got time to run throught your prep sometime, this guy would appreciate it!


--------------------
All you touch, and all you see, is all your life will ever be- Pink Floyd

Life is what happens while you're busy making other plans- John Lennon


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InvisibleJ. Jack Flash
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Re: Culturing Tech • Agar containers, "Grain Petri" Tek, Invitro growing & Sterile Spore Printing! [Re: Imperfect Iam]
    #19851003 - 04/15/14 08:56 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

for sure man. 
first, lemme explain i have wasted a lot of rice getting to where i can prepare it fairly well.  also, it varies by volume, i've found.

in general, i start with some volume of rice, where 7oz dry by weight = one cup.  it roughly doubles in volume when hydrated.  so for a single quart jar full, i'd figure a pint dry.  that's two cups or 14 oz dry by weight.  i've found 10oz dry per jar to leave room for shaking pretty reasonable. (i weigh everything cause it's easier)

boil triple the volume of water.  so 1pint (14oz) rice to 3pints water.
boil, dump in the rice, cover, immediately remove from heat.
stir every now and then until it's cooled somewhat.  leave it long enough, you'll notice the rice kinda sticks together when you first stir.  just keep up the occasional stirring until it doesn't really do that anymore.  probably not critical, but i guess it evens out the hydration. 

cover and walk away.

next day, put the pot back on the stove.  bring to simmer.
this is the tricky timing bit.  keep a close eye on it, stirring, watching for any burst grains.  as soon as you see a single one, it's been too long, and the shit will be sticky no matter what you do.  but it's not yet too late.  what you want is to strain and cool close to that point but not actually there.

strain, and catch the liquid if you can.  it has uses i don't bother with, but just i don't like to drop all that shit in my sink.  it can be used for culture medium, but it's unpredictable nutrient density offends me, so i just feed it to my garden.
if you over cooked, you'll also need to rinse.  rinsing sucks cause it means you're keeping it wet to cool it, so it won't steam off as well.  i use a giant nylon mesh grain straining bag, available from home brew suppliers, to steam out/dry/swing around the yard, to get as much water out as possible.

i've tended to end up sticky, so i spread it out, still in the huge bag, on a rack or something to kinda dry out a little more.  i've never come close to passing rogerrabbit's toilet paper test.  one day we'll get it. 

so here now, we want hydrated-enough rice, without any burst kernels and as unsticky as possible.  i do use gypsum to sortof absorb some stickiness.  gently toss or fold in a giant bowl, don't try to stir, or you break kernels and make it worse.  i guess i use about an ounce of gypsum per 7oz dry of rice. 

the way i see it now, the hydration desired in the grain is only enough to colonize.  bulk sub is where the water for fruiting comes from.  violet would strongly disagree.  make up your own mind.  i believe it's better to err on the side of too little, if you want to shake. 

load and sterlize.  the better you did, the easier it will be to separate the grain after PCing.  zipjars are way easier to break up, just cause their walls flex.  careful tho, cause the flex could also crack the seal and inhale contaminants.  bad for business.

i've considered cutting the hydrated rice with vermiculite, but haven't tried it. 

finally, i'm deffo still a knewb at this.  i'm only on my second 25# bag of rice, and i've had as many failed attempts as successful ones.  i posted a thread a long time ago about using rice flour to mitigate the stickiness, and was pretty well assured i was a dumb shit for it.  it was true, it did not scale up well at all.

sorry so wordy.  hope it helps.


--------------------
 
the j stands for jesus.
2020 new years grow along


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