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OfflineChiefThunderbong
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How do you get a religion officially sanctioned?
    #1984524 - 10/06/03 07:21 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

How can I go about creating my own religion, and more importantly how can I get the government to recognize my religion? The constitution grants us freedom of religion, does that not grant us the right to develop our own customs and traditions or do we only have the right to freedom of already-made religion?


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: How do you get a religion officially sanctioned? [Re: ChiefThunderbong]
    #1984575 - 10/06/03 07:39 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

You're allowed to believe whatever you like in this country, but that still doesn't give you permission to use illegal substances(if that's what you're getting at) as part of your religion, unless you're religion has already been well-established enough for the government to take your religion seriously(I believe they require that the religion has outlived its founder, otherwise it's just a cult). The main reason religions try to become officially recognized is for tax deductions(donations to the church become tax-deductible).


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineZahid
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Re: How do you get a religion officially sanctioned? [Re: ChiefThunderbong]
    #1984605 - 10/06/03 07:49 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Didn't a bunch of geeks in Britain recently founded the Jedi Knight religion?


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OfflineChiefThunderbong
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Re: How do you get a religion officially sanctioned? [Re: silversoul7]
    #1984618 - 10/06/03 07:53 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Well, that is what I'm getting at partially. Of course I realize I can't just make up some shit and be allowed to use drugs, and drugs certainly would not be the basis of the entire religion, but a part nonetheless I'm sure. What if I start a belief system, a belief systems which over time many people adopt and the followers of the system use hallucinogens (or other substances) in a religious fashion for a legnth of time without the governments permission? Is there a certain set of guidelines a religion must follow to be recognized, I looked around a little but was unable to find anything on the subject. I mean is there a number of followers required and it has to live past the inventors death? Does anyone know anything about the creation of that scienceology, or whatever it's called?


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OfflineChiefThunderbong
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Re: How do you get a religion officially sanctioned? [Re: Zahid]
    #1984633 - 10/06/03 08:00 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I've never heard of that, but I'd be interested in learning more. Are wiccans considered an official religion?

I'm quite serious about this, but really don't even know where to start. I feel all of todays major religions are horribly outdated, created by ancient people with no relavence to the world we live in now. I would love to have something to believe in that is not based around the hope of an eternal afterlife.



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InvisibleTeragon
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Re: How do you get a religion officially sanctioned? [Re: ChiefThunderbong]
    #1984637 - 10/06/03 08:02 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Leary wrote a book to solve your problem called, "How To Start Your Own Religion". There you used to be an online copy of it on leary.com, but the published book section there is currently unavailable. Anyways he made his own religion called the League for Spiritual Discovery after his favorite sacrament of course(and mine). The book goes into the steps of actually getting your religion sanctioned by the government and what things you should include in this religion to make it live up to the standards required by the authorities. Good luck if you plan on doing so and if you do please mail me and offer me an invite? Thanks man, fare well. :grin:   


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OfflineChiefThunderbong
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Re: How do you get a religion officially sanctioned? [Re: Teragon]
    #1984655 - 10/06/03 08:08 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Sweet, I need to get myself a copy. If anyone else knows of a book or article on the subject please let me know. Sure I'll mail you an invite, if your still around when I accomplish it. It's not gonna happen tommorow, more a life goal type thing....I'm sure I'll use these forums for insight and whatnot though so you'll be hearing about it. And as I said before, although drug use will be involved it will be considered sacred....not a recreational pasttime. I'm talking about an actual religion, not an excuse to get fucked up.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: How do you get a religion officially sanctioned? [Re: ChiefThunderbong]
    #1984656 - 10/06/03 08:08 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

ChiefThunderbong said:
Well, that is what I'm getting at partially. Of course I realize I can't just make up some shit and be allowed to use drugs, and drugs certainly would not be the basis of the entire religion, but a part nonetheless I'm sure. What if I start a belief system, a belief systems which over time many people adopt and the followers of the system use hallucinogens (or other substances) in a religious fashion for a legnth of time without the governments permission?



Good luck with that. I mean, the Native American Church is allowed to use Peyote in their rituals, but I have a feeling that part of the reason for that is compensation for us completely fucking them over and taking their land. Remember that the Mormon church had to reverse its position on polygamy in order for Utah to be recognized as a state.

Quote:

Is there a certain set of guidelines a religion must follow to be recognized, I looked around a little but was unable to find anything on the subject. I mean is there a number of followers required and it has to live past the inventors death?



I'm not quite sure of the exact number, but I'm guessing it'd have to be at least a couple thousand followers.

Quote:

Does anyone know anything about the creation of that scienceology, or whatever it's called?



I believe that was over a century and a half ago. L. Ron Hubbard wrote some books that basically became the scriptures of Scientology, and now they do personality tests at state fairs and convert popular movie stars.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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InvisibleTeragon
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Re: How do you get a religion officially sanctioned? [Re: silversoul7]
    #1984670 - 10/06/03 08:13 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Is there a certain set of guidelines a religion must follow to be recognized, I looked around a little but was unable to find anything on the subject. I mean is there a number of followers required and it has to live past the inventors death?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not quite sure of the exact number, but I'm guessing it'd have to be at least a couple thousand followers.
-----


Leary's religion had something like ten people in it. And he could legally use LSD I believe as it was a sacrament in the religion.
Cheif- Yeah, Leary says it would take a long time, like upwards of six years or something. Even longer nowadays I bet with all of the bullshit today. Yeah if I'm still around lemme know what the deal is.


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need that cash to feed them jones.


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Re: How do you get a religion officially sanctioned? [Re: silversoul7]
    #1984672 - 10/06/03 08:13 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

I believe that was over a century and a half ago. L. Ron Hubbard wrote some books that basically became the scriptures of Scientology, and now they do personality tests at state fairs and convert popular movie stars.




:lol: hysterical! Is the Church of Scientology recognized as an official religion by the US government?


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OfflineChiefThunderbong
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Re: How do you get a religion officially sanctioned? [Re: Teragon]
    #1984676 - 10/06/03 08:16 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I find it a bit hard to believe Leary had a religion with 10 followers and could legally use LSD....but I could be wrong. I can't seem to find the book on Amazon, BarnesAndNobles, or Ebay unfortunatly....although they all have an assortment of books by Leary. Any suggestions as where I could locate this book?


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: How do you get a religion officially sanctioned? [Re: ChiefThunderbong]
    #1984681 - 10/06/03 08:18 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Ya, that sounds suspicious to me too. Is it possible that this was before LSD was scheduled in 1966?


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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InvisibleTeragon
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Re: How do you get a religion officially sanctioned? [Re: ChiefThunderbong]
    #1984700 - 10/06/03 08:25 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

How To Start Your Own Religion This is a link to a place where one was sold. Picture and description are entailed.

I read the book online at leary.com, but if you go there now the book section is currently not available. Just wait.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: How do you get a religion officially sanctioned? [Re: Teragon]
    #1985308 - 10/06/03 11:55 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Dr. Leary and Dr. Alpert drove from Cambridge, Massachusetts to East Hanover, New Jersey to obtain LSD from Sandoz Pharmaceuticals, prior to its scheduling in 1966. I could see Sandoz from my parents front yard, had made many deliveries there (the guards always said to this long-haired truck driver "Have a nice trip!," as they let me through the gate). I never had the little light blue acid pills, but I did take their psilocybin a few times.

Leary attempted to have LSD and hemp recognized as sacraments for his International Federation of Internal Freedom (IFIF), which, like the League for Spiritual Discovery, were attempts at organizing the use of psychedelics as a sort of purely experiential religion. As it turned out Richard Nixon, then President, called Leary "the most dangerous man alive." Poor timing for Timmy.

One has to have at least 1/6 Native American blood to partake of Peyote in the Native American Church, but I agree it's a concession of small proportion when measured against the U.S. former policy of genocide against Indians.

I'm afraid that Entheogenic Enthusiasts must conduct themselves much like the early Christians in the catacombs beneath Rome. To be discovered is to be persecuted and prosecuted and punished. Meanwhile, out of 14,000 Tylenol overdoses each year, 100 people die from that common drug alone. The Devil does not want people to awaken from their slumber in the cultural 'matrix.'


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Offlinegnrm23
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Re: How do you get a religion officially sanctioned? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #1986342 - 10/07/03 10:04 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

the ellronners got their schtick from "B" scifi author hubbard right after WW2 (so that would be more like about 60 years ago...)
~
the NAC have been hassled from the time they were founded --- by christian missionaries on the rez, by the gummint's bureau of indian affairs, & by state gummint busybodies, etcetcetc... the court case in which a state employee (in a rehab program, no less) lost his job because of an asshole boss went to the state supreme court (where he "won") & was appealed to the US supreme court (where he "lost") & then the US congress passed the "religious freedom restoration act" as an end run around the supremem court decision (where i guess he sorta won again) & then the supreme court overturned the congess' law (i think we all lost on this one...) --- & the fellow never did get his job back, or even his benefits, i think... them meddlin' bastids...
huston smith was quite involved with this court case & has discussed it in a couple of his books (including _why religion matters_ ,which read is well worth checking out...)
(hey markos, i thought that required "indian blood" was 25% for membership in the NAC... & i don't actually think you could ever get 1/6 ancestry in anything, heh... you do the math... (well, i claim 1/3 martian ancestry, so that would make my kids 1/6 arean, hehheh... ouch, what a bad pun, sorry) ...)
~
and in spite of recent court decions in favor of a couple of the "ayahuasca churches" in the ussa (UDV & sante daime), i have a bad feeling about the political climate in this so-called "land of the free" --- like "hey, that there church service ain't like the little white church on the boulevard that i went to when i was a kid" sorta mentality on the part of the "impartial" supreme court justices... (maybe we can hope that we can get a chief executive on board who's got a brain, a conscience, and a soul in the next election, before the current pretender to the throne has a chance to further pack the court with a buncha reactionaries?)
~
heck, san francisco poet/artist john mann (adam gottlieb?) founded the church of the tree of life back in maybe 1970; a non-doctrinaire organmization which declared _everything_ (well, weverything that was not currently illegal) to be a sacrament & thus protected by the bill of rights... right...
~
anyway, check out some of the stuff over at www.csp.org for some stuff on psychedelics & spirituality
~
oh, and wicca is recognized enough (at the moment, anyways) to warrant at least permission for members of the armed forces to practice on base (i dunno if they have an ordained wiccan clergy as chaplain, but it certainly is possible --- much to the chagrin of some of the thumpers in congress --- heck, some o' them thumpers had a rough time accepting muslim clerics as chaplains, heh...)
~
as to developments elsewhere in the world, well, in brazil & in some parts of europe, at least, UDV & sante daime are accepted (hey, in brazil, some government officials not only checked out services, but actually consumed some of the sacramental beverage! if only we could get some of our lawmakers & rulers & judges to sip some yage or to chew some peyote... if only...)(well, the guy whom the people of the united states actually elected to the presidency, al gore, had been to his share of grateful dead concerts back in the day, so i rather suspect that he had occasion to "peek through the veil" so to speak...)
~
may all beings be peaceful
may all beings be happy
may all beings awaken


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: How do you get a religion officially sanctioned? [Re: gnrm23]
    #1986641 - 10/07/03 01:35 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

gnrm23 said:
oh, and wicca is recognized enough (at the moment, anyways) to warrant at least permission for members of the armed forces to practice on base (i dunno if they have an ordained wiccan clergy as chaplain, but it certainly is possible --- much to the chagrin of some of the thumpers in congress --- heck, some o' them thumpers had a rough time accepting muslim clerics as chaplains, heh...)




I remember reading once in the newspaper about a Wiccan being hired to lead ceremonies in a prison in Wisconsin.. I guess the percentage of prisoners there was enough so that one could be hired, so they hired her.. heh.
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineGeeno
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Re: How do you get a religion officially sanctioned? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1986827 - 10/07/03 03:01 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Heh those prisoners just got smart and realized that Wiccans tend to be female :-)

Anyways I want to tell you guys the Scientology is not a joke. No, I am not a Scientologist but more of an Anti-Scientologist. I've seen many people waste their money, their friends/parents money, ruin relationships, and alienate themselves from the world. Exactly the opposite of what they say they can do for you. Never get involved, consider the people scum.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: How do you get a religion officially sanctioned? [Re: Geeno]
    #1986900 - 10/07/03 03:32 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Geeno said:
Exactly the opposite of what they say they can do for you. Never get involved, consider the people scum. 




I don't know much at all about this religion or anything, but any specific reasons to considering them scum and to never get involved? Free thinking is the name of the game, I need some details to do some thinking on my own.. :grin:

Anything that thinks for you or tells you what to do is a scary thing.
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisiblethePatient
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Re: How do you get a religion officially sanctioned? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1987422 - 10/07/03 06:21 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

"...fuck L. Ron Hubbard and fuck all his clones..."


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T h e r e  a r e  n o  o r d i n a r y  m o m e n t s.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: How do you get a religion officially sanctioned? [Re: gnrm23]
    #1988508 - 10/07/03 11:52 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Seriously, these numbers, like 2.5 children being a statistical number that can't exist unless maybe one's unfortunate child is legless from the hips. I swear I 've seen this number, like a derivative of a half-relative. Maybe something like Hitler was 1/8 Jewish . I don't get it, this time I just repeated [*burp*] it. I'll look it up in The Peyote religion or some such text. OK, if grandma married an Indian...oh never mind. It's all ridiculous anyway making genetics the basis of whether one can chew some cactus tops. Am I Jewish because my mother was born into a Jewish family? She was an atheist til her dying day. I can't handle the absurd stupidity of it all. I especially hate it when I'm being stupid.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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