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Offlinepsyconaught
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Re: Why Did The BLM Stop Action Against the Rancer in Nevada? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #19846713 - 04/14/14 11:35 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Why did they quit?  Ruby Ridge and Waco.  By the way, this rancher should fucking pay the fees.  It isn't his land.



:whathesaid:



i never thought i'd see the day Zappa, Falcon, and I would all completely agree on an issue :lol:


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Why Did The BLM Stop Action Against the Rancer in Nevada? [Re: psyconaught] * 2
    #19847487 - 04/15/14 06:59 AM (9 years, 9 months ago)

There is a lot of misunderstanding in this thread about what happened with Cliven Bundy.  The fees he owes are from 1993 to 1998 when he grazed on BLM land without paying the required fees.  In 1998, grazing there was outlawed completely, and he continued to graze there.

Those are the two issues involved:

First, he owes money from 1993-1998.  That's the lesser issue and isn't what brought men with guns.

Second, he continues to graze his cattle illegally on BLM land despite being repeatedly ordered by courts to stop.  This is what prompted the seizure of his cattle which eventually escalated to this point.


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InvisibleShins
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Re: Why Did The BLM Stop Action Against the Rancer in Nevada? [Re: SeaShrooms]
    #19847719 - 04/15/14 09:11 AM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

SeaShrooms said:
They tucked tail and ran because good americans showed up with some solid american steel. ooo-rah




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Offlinespecialpeopleclub
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Re: Why Did The BLM Stop Action Against the Rancer in Nevada? [Re: Shins]
    #19848507 - 04/15/14 12:34 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Should have been prosecuted. You let crazy right wingers with guns win, they'll do it again. Don't let your cattle on public property
fuckin moron
like these fucking cats coming in my yard, people should be grateful I'm npt a hunter, I'd wear their garbage scrouning pet aroumd as a hat(if you know me, I wouldn't do that)

control your animals, or fuck off. They suffer too when you don't


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OfflineSeaShrooms
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Re: Why Did The BLM Stop Action Against the Rancer in Nevada? [Re: specialpeopleclub]
    #19848546 - 04/15/14 12:44 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

What you guys are failing to see, is that this was a federal land grab attempt, nothing more, nothing less, nothing the feds aren't already VERY well known for.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Why Did The BLM Stop Action Against the Rancer in Nevada? [Re: SeaShrooms]
    #19848577 - 04/15/14 12:51 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

SeaShrooms said:
What you guys are failing to see, is that this was a federal land grab attempt, nothing more, nothing less, nothing the feds aren't already VERY well known for.



The Feds already owned the land.  Your legal analysis is as lacking in validity as your perception of child sexuality


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Why Did The BLM Stop Action Against the Rancer in Nevada? [Re: SeaShrooms]
    #19848733 - 04/15/14 01:23 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

SeaShrooms said:
What you guys are failing to see, is that this was a federal land grab attempt, nothing more, nothing less, nothing the feds aren't already VERY well known for.




How does one "grab" what has already been theirs for years decades?


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineSeaShrooms
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Re: Why Did The BLM Stop Action Against the Rancer in Nevada? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #19848889 - 04/15/14 01:57 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

you are failing to recognize the land did not belong to the feds....


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Why Did The BLM Stop Action Against the Rancer in Nevada? [Re: SeaShrooms] * 1
    #19848905 - 04/15/14 01:59 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

SeaShrooms said:
you are failing to recognize the land did not belong to the feds....



You have failed to recognize that it did and does belong to the feds.  This has already been determined in a court of law.  Your opinion is not only wrong, but irrelevant.


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OfflineSeaShrooms
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Re: Why Did The BLM Stop Action Against the Rancer in Nevada? [Re: Enlil]
    #19848927 - 04/15/14 02:03 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

His ranch is on his land :goat: the land the cattle where graving on his nevadas land, no federal land involved... Not only is your opinion wrong, but it is irrelevant, as the feds knew they were in the wrong, and backed the fuck off


http://www.commdiginews.com/politics-2/crowds-roar-video-blm-vs-bundy-ranch-deal-reached-cattle-to-be-returned-14435/


Edited by SeaShrooms (04/15/14 02:05 PM)


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Why Did The BLM Stop Action Against the Rancer in Nevada? [Re: SeaShrooms] * 1
    #19848955 - 04/15/14 02:10 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Bundy says it's Nevada's land.  He's wrong.  The courts have already found that he's wrong.  I gave no opinion.


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: Why Did The BLM Stop Action Against the Rancer in Nevada? [Re: SeaShrooms]
    #19848962 - 04/15/14 02:11 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

We need links to the proof or stfu everyone


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Why Did The BLM Stop Action Against the Rancer in Nevada? [Re: Stonehenge] * 1
    #19849042 - 04/15/14 02:31 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Good point.  Here is a quote from the order granting the Federal Government's Motion for Summary Judgment:

"Bundy principally opposes the United States’ motion for summary judgment on the ground that this court lacks jurisdiction because the United States does not own the public lands in question. As this court previously ruled in United States v. Bundy, Case No. CV-S-98-531-JBR (RJJ) (D. Nev. Nov. 4, 1998), “the public lands in Nevada are the property of the United States because the United States has held title to those public lands since 1848, when Mexico ceded the land to the United States.” CV-S-98-531 at 8 (citing United States v. Gardner, 107 F.3d 1314, 1318 (9th Cir. 1997))."  - Page 3 of images below, lines 7-12.

Here is the bundy order:






Edited by Enlil (04/15/14 02:44 PM)


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OfflineSeaShrooms
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Re: Why Did The BLM Stop Action Against the Rancer in Nevada? [Re: Enlil]
    #19849186 - 04/15/14 03:04 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

This is over the land his cattle grazed on though correct? Not the land his ranch is on?


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Why Did The BLM Stop Action Against the Rancer in Nevada? [Re: SeaShrooms]
    #19849197 - 04/15/14 03:06 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Yes, federal land that he grazed his cattle on.


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OfflineSeaShrooms
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Re: Why Did The BLM Stop Action Against the Rancer in Nevada? [Re: Enlil]
    #19849217 - 04/15/14 03:10 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

To which he and others say the BLM stopped providing their services for his cattle to graze on that land, and he has since, "moved on to greener pastures".

Does it not strike you as odd that if the issue was back payments he owes, the feds actually moved in under the pretense of protecting endangered tortoise habitat?

If this wasn't a land grab attempt by the feds, who have forcibly made other ranchers in the area sell for sub-par prices, why make the territory of this endangered tortoise the border of the property they want to possess?


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Why Did The BLM Stop Action Against the Rancer in Nevada? [Re: SeaShrooms]
    #19849233 - 04/15/14 03:13 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Again, the issue isn't money owed.  I made that clear before, and I posted the order from the courts which doesn't deal with the money owed.

He was ordered by the court to stop grazing his cattle on that land, and the order gives him 45 days to remove his cattle.  It also gives the federal government the power to seize any cattle of his found on that land after those 45 days.  That is EXACTLY what happened here...they came and got the cattle and he's butthurt about it.


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OfflineSeaShrooms
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Re: Why Did The BLM Stop Action Against the Rancer in Nevada? [Re: Enlil]
    #19849248 - 04/15/14 03:15 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Well if your interpretation of the events that transpired is correct, it would seem very american to make such a democratic show of force, for completely the wrong battle...


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Why Did The BLM Stop Action Against the Rancer in Nevada? [Re: SeaShrooms] * 1
    #19849259 - 04/15/14 03:18 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

It's not my interpretation, dude...it's the court's.  Keep in mind also that he was ordered to stop grazing in 1998 as well by the court, and he ignored that order too.  He got an extra 16 years on the land.  He should count his blessings and move on.


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OfflineSeaShrooms
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Re: Why Did The BLM Stop Action Against the Rancer in Nevada? [Re: Enlil]
    #19849290 - 04/15/14 03:23 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

So why the media blackout, cellphone tower shut down, and halting of flights, if the court order wasn't a cover up for something else?


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