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Invisiblerackem
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feds killing cattle in war with a rancher
    #19825479 - 04/10/14 08:08 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

government overreacts and now malitia members are headed to nevada some all the way from florida to help this rancher named cliven bundy.

Quote:

BUNKERVILLE — From near and wide, armed men are trickling toward Cliven Bundy’s ranch, where the rancher’s fight with the federal government has become a rallying cry for militia groups across the United States.

On Wednesday, that dispute teetered at the edge of deadly conflict, when Cliven Bundy’s family members and supporters scuffled with rangers from the Bureau of Land Management sent to protect the federal roundup of Bundy’s cattle on public land.

One of Bundy’s seven sons was shot with a stun gun, and Bundy’s sister was knocked to the ground; but no one was seriously hurt, and no arrests were made.

By late Wednesday, three militia members — two from Montana and one from Utah — had arrived at the ranch 80 miles northeast of Las Vegas. Other militia groups have inundated the Bundy household with calls and pledges to muster at the site. Their stated goal: to protect the Bundys from tyranny.

They say they are prepared for armed confrontation, but they insist they will not be the instigators if bloodshed happens.

Ryan Payne and Jim Lardy, members of the West Mountain Rangers, made the 12-hour drive from western Montana on Tuesday night. Payne is also a coordinator with Operation Mutual Aid, a national association that describes itself as a coalition of state militias.

“They all tell me they are in the process of mobilizing as we speak,” Payne said.

He didn’t put a specific estimate on how many militia members may come, but he said the groups expected are from places like New Hampshire, Texas and Florida and could number in the hundreds.

“We need to be the barrier between the oppressed and the tyrants,” he said. “Expect to see a band of soldiers.”

Payne, 30, and Lardy, 49, both wore holstered handguns as they spoke, but they downplayed the display of firepower. They wear their weapons daily.

They say the goals are for no one to be harmed, the Bundy family to be protected, and the Bundy property restored.

For now, the militia members will camp on the Bundy ranch. They say the issue isn’t about cattle or grazing rights; it’s about constitutional rights.

“We’re not anti-government,” said Lardy, who cuts firewood for a living. “We’re anti-corrupt government.”

Stephen Dean, 45, an artist from Utah, said he made the trip in hopes of heading off another Ruby Ridge or Waco, referring to deadly confrontations involving federal agents in Idaho in 1992 and in Texas in 1993.

A member of the People’s United Mobile Armed Services, Dean said he also carries weapons more powerful than his firearms: a camera and the Internet. Those tools will document the plight of the Bundy ranch and bring the issue to light, he said. “I’m here to see it does happen differently.”

Serious bloodshed was narrowly avoided earlier in the day, when a BLM ranger shot Ammon Bundy, a son of Cliven Bundy, with a stun gun during a heated confrontation a few miles from the ranch house.

A YouTube video shows protesters and law enforcement officers yelling and threatening each other as trucks involved in the roundup attempt to drive through. The officers have stun guns drawn, and one is trying to push the crowd back with a barking dog on a leash.

Cheryl Teerlink, said Ammon Bundy was hit by a stun gun in his arm, chest and neck, but he shook off the first attempt to incapacitate him. “I pulled the tasers out of him,” Teerlink said.

Shortly before that, Cliven Bundy’s sister, Margaret Houston, was thrown to the ground by a BLM officer, Teerlink said.

The incident unfolded near the intersection of Gold Butte Road and state Route 170, where protesters gathered after they saw BLM vehicles coming down from the range.

The Bureau of Land Management and National Park Service released a statement confirming that one protester had been stunned. The agencies said the incident started when “a BLM truck driven by a non-law enforcement civilian employee assisting with gather operations was struck by a protester on an ATV, and the truck’s exit from the area was blocked by a group of individuals who gathered around the vehicle.”

According to the statement, peaceful protests have “crossed into illegal activity” in recent days, with people “blocking vehicles associated with the gather, impeding cattle movement, and making direct and overt threats to government employees.”

“These isolated actions that have jeopardized the safety of individuals have been responded to with appropriate law enforcement actions,” it said.

Federal law enforcement officers, also heavily armed, are providing tight security to contract cowboys from Utah who were hired by the government for almost $1 million to round up as many as 900 cattle that Bundy has left to roam on federal land despite not paying grazing fees for the past 20 years.

Two federal court orders issued within the past year called for the rancher’s livestock to be impounded from a vast swath of mountains and desert. That roundup began Saturday on almost 600,000 acres closed to the public during the operation.

As of Wednesday, 352 animals had been rounded up.

Gov. Brian Sandoval on Tuesday slammed the BLM for creating an “atmosphere of intimidation” and called on the agency to dismantle two “First Amendment areas” it set up for demonstrators well away from any roundup activity.

The former federal judge said he told the agency “that such conduct is offensive to me and countless others.”

“No cow justifies the atmosphere of intimidation which currently exists nor the limitation of constitutional rights that are sacred to all Nevadans,” the Republican governor said.

On Wednesday morning, before news broke of the scuffle between protesters and the BLM, Sen. Dean Heller, R-Nev., sent a statement expressing “great disappointment with the way that this situation is being handled.”

Heller said he spoke to newly confirmed BLM director Neil Kornze and “told him very clearly that law-abiding Nevadans must not be penalized by an over-reaching BLM.”

“After hearing from local officials and residents, and receiving feedback from the Nevada Cattlemen’s Association in a meeting this morning, I remain extremely concerned about the size of this closure and disruptions with access to roads, water and electrical infrastructure,” Heller said. “I will continue to closely monitor this situation, and urge the BLM to make the necessary changes in order to preserve Nevadans’ constitutional rights.”

Kornze is a Nevada native who spent eight years as a senior policy adviser for Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid before joining the BLM.

Reached for comment before Wednesday’s altercation between rangers and demonstrators, spokeswoman Kristen Orthman said: “Senator Reid hopes the trespassing cattle are rounded up safely so the issue can be resolved.”






what do you guys think of this? overreacting government? a man that has lost his damn mind?


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OfflineUzziel
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Re: feds killing cattle in war with a rancher [Re: rackem] * 1
    #19825504 - 04/10/14 08:12 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Am I reading this right? His cattle isn't on his property but on public/federal property and they want them removed from the property and all these dumbshits are coming to the rescue to help a guy keep his cattle where they aren't suppose to be?

Don't know if the booze is making me read wrong or what

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Invisiblerackem
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Re: feds killing cattle in war with a rancher [Re: Uzziel] * 1
    #19825522 - 04/10/14 08:16 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

hes been fighting this sense the early 90's.

but its public land before its the governments.


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OfflineUzziel
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Re: feds killing cattle in war with a rancher [Re: rackem]
    #19825598 - 04/10/14 08:32 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Bundy has left to roam on federal land despite not paying grazing fees for the past 20 years.




Sounds like he's not paying what he is suppose to. I don't like to side with the government but this seems to be a clear case of him being in the wrong?

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Invisiblememes
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Re: feds killing cattle in war with a rancher [Re: rackem]
    #19825611 - 04/10/14 08:36 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

rackem said:
but its public land before its the governments.



not if it's the governments land.







as i read it this morning, the dude's been grazing his cattle on government-owned land for comething like 20-30 years.  the government tried (through multiple means) to get him to stop it back then, and again last year.  now, they're saying fuck you.

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OfflineUzziel
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Re: feds killing cattle in war with a rancher [Re: memes]
    #19825617 - 04/10/14 08:38 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

It specifically states its federal land... I think he is in the wrong :shrug:

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Offlinefapjack
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Re: feds killing cattle in war with a rancher [Re: rackem]
    #19825640 - 04/10/14 08:43 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

That guy sounds like a dick.


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Invisiblerackem
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Re: feds killing cattle in war with a rancher [Re: Uzziel]
    #19825647 - 04/10/14 08:44 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

his family was settled there before blm even existed..

how can he be in the wrong?

the feds stating over some fucking turtle? if you have been through that part of nevada... there aint nothing out there.. hes just making a living and justifiably so. i wouldnt pay the feds he should be grandfathered in like seemingly everything else.

this could potentially be another waco type scenario


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OfflineUzziel
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Re: feds killing cattle in war with a rancher [Re: rackem]
    #19825660 - 04/10/14 08:49 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Every other rancher abides by the rules, why is he exempt from the law?

It doesn't matter if it existed or not beforehand, the law changed, and they were given the chance to abide by the law.

Don't like it? Don't live in America. :shrug:

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InvisibleLegend
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Re: feds killing cattle in war with a rancher [Re: Uzziel]
    #19825685 - 04/10/14 08:53 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

The govt.. shouldn't fine people for something like cows gazing. That's the dumbest thing i've ever heard. It's like you have to pay money just to live your life these days.


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OfflineUzziel
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Re: feds killing cattle in war with a rancher [Re: Legend]
    #19825713 - 04/10/14 09:00 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

You realize they can contract out workers to cut all that grass and turn it into bales of heigh to sell right?

Why shouldn't he be fined for it?

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Offliner00tuuu123
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Re: feds killing cattle in war with a rancher [Re: memes] * 1
    #19825743 - 04/10/14 09:08 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Uzziel said:
Am I reading this right? His cattle isn't on his property but on public/federal property and they want them removed from the property and all these dumbshits are coming to the rescue to help a guy keep his cattle where they aren't suppose to be?

Don't know if the booze is making me read wrong or what


Er it's common practice to allow ranchers to graze their cattle on public land
Quote:

memes said:
Quote:

rackem said:
but its public land before its the governments.



not if it's the governments land



Er maybe you don't pay attention to the Constitution But newsflash we are the government. :psycrankey: If he were growing organic plants instead of beef cattle I'd bet dollars to doughnuts you'd be singing a different tune.


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OfflineUzziel
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Re: feds killing cattle in war with a rancher [Re: r00tuuu123]
    #19825755 - 04/10/14 09:10 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Nope. You can't just start a farm on federal land, just like you can't start a farm in federal parks, state parks, etc.


Can you show me where it's common practice? I had no idea that it's fine for ranchers to just let their cattle roam. I thought that was NOT okay.

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Invisiblerackem
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Re: feds killing cattle in war with a rancher [Re: r00tuuu123]
    #19825763 - 04/10/14 09:12 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

yeah, the feds are pissed because someone finally came along and said fuck you this is public land..

and the feds up and decided one day, it wasnt public it was theirs, to protect the desert tortoise. get the fuck outta here... they are out of control.


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Offlinefapjack
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Re: feds killing cattle in war with a rancher [Re: rackem]
    #19825774 - 04/10/14 09:14 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

It was never his or his families land, they just used it.  Its protected land, and cattle grazing fucks it up.  Not only did he not pay and fees, he also didn't pay any fines, and they have repeatably told him to stop.  He's making money off of the cattle, and he's saving lots by graving them on land he pays no taxes on.  I really don't understand how anyone thinks he's in the right.  If I go mine on federally own land, I would expect to get arrested for trespassing.


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OfflineUzziel
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Re: feds killing cattle in war with a rancher [Re: rackem]
    #19825810 - 04/10/14 09:20 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

rackem said:
yeah, the feds are pissed because someone finally came along and said fuck you this is public land..

and the feds up and decided one day, it wasnt public it was theirs, to protect the desert tortoise. get the fuck outta here... they are out of control.




So I can just up and build a water park on public land is what you're saying?

This isn't how it works man

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Invisiblerackem
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Re: feds killing cattle in war with a rancher [Re: Uzziel]
    #19825841 - 04/10/14 09:25 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

water park and live stock are 2 different things man.

i get what your saying from the business aspect of it. but the cows arent ruining anything.. specially the turtles.


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Offlinefapjack
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Re: feds killing cattle in war with a rancher [Re: rackem] * 2
    #19825856 - 04/10/14 09:30 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Cattle screws up the land, especially in the desert.  He's running a business and should pay his taxes like everyone else.


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OfflineTheGreenArrow
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Re: feds killing cattle in war with a rancher [Re: fapjack]
    #19825887 - 04/10/14 09:39 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

:nodofunderstanding:


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Invisiblerackem
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Re: feds killing cattle in war with a rancher [Re: fapjack]
    #19825946 - 04/10/14 09:51 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

lets take the cows out of it..

the government up and decides one day that that land is no longer public. it is now federal.. thats the real issue at stake here.. government taking over whatever they want whenever they want and that should be stood up to.


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Offliner00tuuu123
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Re: feds killing cattle in war with a rancher [Re: Uzziel] * 1
    #19825954 - 04/10/14 09:53 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Uzziel said:

Can you show me where it's common practice? I had no idea that it's fine for ranchers to just let their cattle roam. I thought that was NOT okay.


Er look it up yourself smart ass. Further more.  the article states nothing about the rancher not paying grazing fees or not having the proper permit. I sincerely doubt that this guy would jeopadize hundreds of thousands of $ worth of cattle over what would amount to 10,000 $ in fees. You hippie types really amze me with your lack of logic. Just because people with guns are helping the guy automatically he's the bad guy. Maybe if they all sat in a circle and played bongos and strummed guitars it would be more to your liking.


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OfflineTheGreenArrow
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Re: feds killing cattle in war with a rancher [Re: r00tuuu123]
    #19825976 - 04/10/14 09:59 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

You realize it costs money to graze cattle right?  That shit hasn't been free since they stopped driving cattle man.


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equation, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a
computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly.
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Offlinefapjack
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Re: feds killing cattle in war with a rancher [Re: rackem] * 1
    #19825979 - 04/10/14 09:59 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Its protected because of the turtles, I'm pretty sure that's what happens when they protect an endangered species.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: feds killing cattle in war with a rancher [Re: rackem]
    #19825980 - 04/10/14 10:00 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

rackem said:
his family was settled there before blm even existed..

how can he be in the wrong?





my family was settled here for more than 10,000 years, does that mean I can
go in and claim his land as my own and make use of it as I wish without
giving him just compensation?

the BLMs roots go back to legislation as far back as 1787, when did his
family settle the land? when did they buy the federal land in which
they're grazing their cattle?

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: feds killing cattle in war with a rancher [Re: r00tuuu123] * 1
    #19825999 - 04/10/14 10:05 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

r00tuuu123 said:
Further more.  the article states nothing about the rancher not paying grazing fees or not having the proper permit.




it clearly states it

Quote:

Federal law enforcement officers, also heavily armed, are providing tight security to contract cowboys from Utah who were hired by the government for almost $1 million to round up as many as 900 cattle that Bundy has left to roam on federal land despite not paying grazing fees for the past 20 years.





Quote:

I sincerely doubt that this guy would jeopadize hundreds of thousands of $ worth of cattle over what would amount to 10,000 $ in fees.




you should doubt yourself because that's exactly what he's doing, he's
seen a chance for grazing on open range and took advantage of it, they've
demanded the money for decades and he's refused to pay so now they're
obtaining compensation, kinda like dropping your car off at a shop for wrk
and then refusing to pay, maybe if he had removed his cattle when they
originally asked he wouldnt be a butthurt asshole about it now.

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Offlinespecialpeopleclub
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Re: feds killing cattle in war with a rancher [Re: rackem]
    #19826228 - 04/10/14 11:16 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

rackem said:
hes been fighting this sense the early 90's.

but its public land before its the governments.



That is what public means, everyone's, tax dollars. government

also, he is in the wrong obviously, though killing his animals makes them jerks too, but people often are


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Edited by specialpeopleclub (04/10/14 11:21 PM)

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OfflineUzziel
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Re: feds killing cattle in war with a rancher [Re: r00tuuu123]
    #19826246 - 04/10/14 11:25 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

r00tuuu123 said:
Quote:

Uzziel said:

Can you show me where it's common practice? I had no idea that it's fine for ranchers to just let their cattle roam. I thought that was NOT okay.


Er look it up yourself smart ass. Further more.  the article states nothing about the rancher not paying grazing fees or not having the proper permit. I sincerely doubt that this guy would jeopadize hundreds of thousands of $ worth of cattle over what would amount to 10,000 $ in fees. You hippie types really amze me with your lack of logic. Just because people with guns are helping the guy automatically he's the bad guy. Maybe if they all sat in a circle and played bongos and strummed guitars it would be more to your liking.




Smart ass? I was asking a serious question because I've never heard of that.

It SPECIFICALLY states that in the article... just search (Control + F) "fee" and it pops right up....

I'm not a hippie, but so far you've just insulted me and you want to talk about logic?

Yikes...

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Invisiblerackem
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Re: feds killing cattle in war with a rancher [Re: Uzziel]
    #19826294 - 04/10/14 11:46 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

its a greedy fucking government and the guy is standing up to it.

what do you think those grazing fees go to out there anyways?


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OfflineUzziel
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Re: feds killing cattle in war with a rancher [Re: rackem]
    #19826348 - 04/11/14 12:06 AM (9 years, 11 months ago)

How is it greedy?

They're not using their property and gaining cash from it without paying proper fees. Nevada isn't exactly a grassland. Herds of cattle ruin the land.

I don't like siding with the government at all, I get this guy is just a rancher, but you can't just expand your ranch area to wherever you please

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Re: feds killing cattle in war with a rancher [Re: rackem]
    #19826397 - 04/11/14 12:19 AM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Guys grazing on protected land, he's had 20 years of warnings to stop and hasn't, he's in the wrong as far as I'm concerned. At best his position is questionable and bringing the question of violence into a federally served warrant is not justified in such a case.
If he was in the right he would have moved his cattle and pursued the case in court.

Definitely siding with the gov from the information given.

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Invisiblerackem
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Re: feds killing cattle in war with a rancher [Re: Repertoire89]
    #19826460 - 04/11/14 12:36 AM (9 years, 11 months ago)

i just fail to see it that way.

once was public land, government came in, said it was theirs. put a tax on it for help to maintain roads etc. that seized to happen. and took more ranchers out in the process with the tax money they were getting.

corporate tax in america is a criminal. im glad someone is standing up for it.

“It is the mission of the Bureau of Land Management to sustain the health, diversity, and productivity of the public lands for the use and enjoyment of present and future generations.”

if that is the mission statement of the blm. and given the circumstances,they want him off his land.

and if you have ever been in that area, it is a desolate fucking place let me tell you.


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Re: feds killing cattle in war with a rancher [Re: rackem]
    #19826487 - 04/11/14 12:47 AM (9 years, 11 months ago)

You may be right, I don't know, just going from the information given it sounds like his position is pretty shaky.

Nevada is a real no man's land, pretty beautiful in its own way. Looking forward to passing through again sometime but probably won't stop anywhere :lol:

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Invisiblerackem
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Re: feds killing cattle in war with a rancher [Re: Repertoire89]
    #19826506 - 04/11/14 12:56 AM (9 years, 11 months ago)

no where really to stop man.

you got vegas and reno.

the rest is desolate. yeah a few barely surviving old mining towns. but other than that just landscaping.


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OfflineUzziel
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Re: feds killing cattle in war with a rancher [Re: Repertoire89]
    #19826508 - 04/11/14 12:57 AM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Well all I can say is I hope this resolves peacefully and hope it works out for both sides. I don't know enough to really say what exactly is the case here.

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Invisiblerackem
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Registered: 11/27/09
Posts: 14,024
Re: feds killing cattle in war with a rancher [Re: Uzziel]
    #19826632 - 04/11/14 01:45 AM (9 years, 11 months ago)

it just screams like ruby ridge or waco.

im sure it will be nothing but it def goes to show that the government is willing to step over dollars to pick up pennies to prove a point.


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InvisibleRepertoire89
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Re: feds killing cattle in war with a rancher [Re: rackem]
    #19826635 - 04/11/14 01:47 AM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

rackem said:
it just screams like ruby ridge or waco.

im sure it will be nothing but it def goes to show that the government is willing to step over dollars to pick up pennies to prove a point.




Well I do think that's often necessary, whatever disagreements we have with the law to a certain extent it needs to be respected. Its a shame they don't go through such trouble to prove a point when it comes to corrupt politicians and sacrifice their own political careers to do what's right.

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Invisiblerackem
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Re: feds killing cattle in war with a rancher [Re: Repertoire89]
    #19826695 - 04/11/14 02:28 AM (9 years, 11 months ago)

hes out in the middle of nowhere. and im a fan of leaving people be.

its not like he was cutting into their  pocket books or living in a mansion on the beach. simply eeking out a living doing his thing.

and happened to say damn the man in the process.. isnt that the whole point of living in a desolate place


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InvisibleVespera
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Registered: 03/17/14
Posts: 474
Re: feds killing cattle in war with a rancher [Re: rackem]
    #19826701 - 04/11/14 02:34 AM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Government plans to euthanize hundreds of desert tortoises after budget cuts to refuge


http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/08/25/government-plans-to-euthanize-hundreds-of-desert-tortoises-after-budget-cuts-to-refuge/


Because they really care about turtles.


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:atom: "The copper wire pipe has a significant amount of AC electricity running through it, causing it to act like a really strong electromagnet. In the metal slug, eddy currents form due to the magnetic field the copper wire pipe is causing while the copper wire pipe has high frequency AC flowing through it. The metal slug’s electric resistance causes a portion of the electric energy to turn into heat, but the heat builds up until the metal slug becomes white hot and melts."

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InvisibleMush 4 Brains
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Re: feds killing cattle in war with a rancher [Re: Vespera]
    #19826709 - 04/11/14 02:43 AM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Ha, plot thickens

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Invisiblerackem
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Re: feds killing cattle in war with a rancher [Re: Vespera]
    #19826711 - 04/11/14 02:44 AM (9 years, 11 months ago)

point and case..

they after his land.. the turtles are a cover up.

shit pisses me off.. im wondering what the outcome of this will be. peaceful waco or prison for the dude.


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InvisibleRepertoire89
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Re: feds killing cattle in war with a rancher [Re: rackem]
    #19826714 - 04/11/14 02:46 AM (9 years, 11 months ago)

I don't know the details of the situation really




Quote:

Vespera said:
Government plans to euthanize hundreds of desert tortoises after budget cuts to refuge

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/08/25/government-plans-to-euthanize-hundreds-of-desert-tortoises-after-budget-cuts-to-refuge/

Because they really care about turtles.




What in the world



Edited by Repertoire89 (04/11/14 02:53 AM)

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Offlinespazmodog
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Registered: 02/27/11
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Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
Re: feds killing cattle in war with a rancher [Re: Repertoire89]
    #19826812 - 04/11/14 04:07 AM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

rackem said:
water park and live stock are 2 different things man.

i get what your saying from the business aspect of it. but the cows arent ruining anything.. specially the turtles.




source? im sorry but thats quite a claim. the turtles could be seriously effected, especially if the guy is cutting for hay

if it is a protected area the guy should probably be moved off it, HOWEVER if hes been there for 20 years, they should pay him some compensation at least. and they DEFINALTY should NOT be killing his fucking cows man, thats out of order

Edited by spazmodog (04/11/14 04:09 AM)

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Offlinefapjack
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Registered: 07/26/07
Posts: 16,574
Loc: Central New Jersey
Last seen: 4 years, 13 days
Re: feds killing cattle in war with a rancher [Re: rackem]
    #19826949 - 04/11/14 05:57 AM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Its not his land though, its the federal governments.  He is benefiting from land he pays no taxes on, why shouldn't he pay a fee?  I don't agree with land ownership, but its a way of life today.  Pay your taxes or expect to have the government take you to jail.


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