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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Lookin at the Ukraine Protests [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19816453 - 04/09/14 12:45 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Shins said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:

Supported in what way by the West?  I didn't see any Western troops there.




Oh wow!  You arent really that dense are you?




Answer the question.



Did you already forget this was answered for you in another thread?

Quote:

Here's a good article from a former staffer in the U.S. House of Representatives.  Former Congressman Ron Paul says the same.




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I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Lookin at the Ukraine Protests [Re: Shins]
    #19817233 - 04/09/14 08:10 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
The former president was democratically elected, period    now, are you in favor of a democratic system or are you not?

it would not be acceptable in any other civilized country for a minority to riot in the streets and storm government buildings when a party you didn't like got voted in by a majority.  Your excuses are not acceptable.  You are trying to justify unjustifiable acts. 

This was clearly the EU and its supporters refusingvto take "No" for an answer so they staged a violent and undemocratic coup.  it was not democratic and it was not civilized.  Trying to justify it is reprehensible and hypocritical.  You don't get to riot when a democratic vote doesn't go your way.




The EU did no such thing.  Stop lying.  He was deposed by the legislature, which was elected


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OfflineMightyMustache
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Re: Lookin at the Ukraine Protests [Re: zappaisgod] * 1
    #19817685 - 04/09/14 10:23 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
The former president was democratically elected, period    now, are you in favor of a democratic system or are you not?

it would not be acceptable in any other civilized country for a minority to riot in the streets and storm government buildings when a party you didn't like got voted in by a majority.  Your excuses are not acceptable.  You are trying to justify unjustifiable acts. 

This was clearly the EU and its supporters refusingvto take "No" for an answer so they staged a violent and undemocratic coup.  it was not democratic and it was not civilized.  Trying to justify it is reprehensible and hypocritical.  You don't get to riot when a democratic vote doesn't go your way.



???

Where did you pick up about massive riots after Yanukovych's election? There wasnt a single building being stormed then.

Nothing happened until Yanukovych (and not the citizens) decided for russian integration. That's when the Euromaidan revolution took place. And there's nothing democratic about a president, elected or not, deciding to go against his people's wishes. Hence why it was a revolution and not a coup.

And nobody got to vote about it either.

But hey, i guess a bunch of people that want democracy are evil right? And stuff like this:Russians taking hostages and planting explosives is nothing to be frowned upon.


Edited by MightyMustache (04/09/14 10:25 AM)


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InvisibleShins
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Re: Lookin at the Ukraine Protests [Re: MightyMustache] * 1
    #19818177 - 04/09/14 12:33 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Electing reprisentatives is the way every democracy in the world works.  If you don't feel they are reprisenting you you vote them out next election cycle.

please provide proof that the majority of Ukrainians were unhappy with the president's decision.

in no democratic country is it acceptable to violently oust the democratic reprisentitives who were elected by the people simply because you dislike a decision they make.  In every civilized democracy you vote them out next election cycle.

Why are you trying to justify what you are?  Don't you believe in reprisentative democracy?  Or do you support the violent rioting thugs simply because you favor ukraine-EU integration?  Or perhaps you're just brainwashed by television and politicians like so many others are?

tell me; in what other country would it be acceptable for a group of rioters to overthrow democratic reprisentatives because they dislike a decision they made?  No where.

The only reason anyone is justifying it is because the EU wont take "no" for an answer and wants ukraine claspef in its dirty claws and have staged a violent coup followed by a monolithic propaganda campaign.

Most people are just brainwashed by the constant propaganda and double speak blaring from televisions and newspapers 24/7 and politicians telling blatant lies to cover their true agendas.  All the braindead zombies just lap it up and swallow it down.  Well I'm not a braindead zombie and I can see right through the bullshit propaganda and lies and I'm calling you out.


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OfflineMightyMustache
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Re: Lookin at the Ukraine Protests [Re: Shins]
    #19818601 - 04/09/14 02:18 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
Electing reprisentatives is the way every democracy in the world works.  If you don't feel they are reprisenting you you vote them out next election cycle.

please provide proof that the majority of Ukrainians were unhappy with the president's decision.

Read (or translate) this

in no democratic country is it acceptable to violently oust the democratic reprisentitives who were elected by the people simply because you dislike a decision they make.  In every civilized democracy you vote them out next election cycle.

If life was a utopia, yes. In reality, no.

Why are you trying to justify what you are?  Don't you believe in reprisentative democracy?  Or do you support the violent rioting thugs simply because you favor ukraine-EU integration?  Or perhaps you're just brainwashed by television and politicians like so many others are?

You tend to use the word democracy a lot. If you feel like you have any authority on the subject, why would you call the mayority of Ukrainians "violent thugs"? The citizens wanted someone who represented them and their wishes. Not someone corrupt who goes against said wishes and sided with Russia. Hence the euromaidan revolution that took place.

tell me; in what other country would it be acceptable for a group of rioters to overthrow democratic reprisentatives because they dislike a decision they made?  No where.

When someone in charge makes a decision thats not supported by the people, it's no longer a democracy. Its a dictature. And that's why a revolution took place. A re-vo-lu-tion, not a coup.

The only reason anyone is justifying it is because the EU wont take "no" for an answer and wants ukraine claspef in its dirty claws and have staged a violent coup followed by a monolithic propaganda campaign.

Stop your "The EU is the devil" retoric. Russia is massing troops on the border and sending in armed thugs, not the Europian Union.

Most people are just brainwashed by the constant propaganda and double speak blaring from televisions and newspapers 24/7 and politicians telling blatant lies to cover their true agendas.  All the braindead zombies just lap it up and swallow it down.  Well I'm not a braindead zombie and I can see right through the bullshit propaganda and lies and I'm calling you out.

While i agree with you on some parts, there are also people that are so against mainstream news, they start believing in their own bullshit. But that's a whole other discussion.







And please. Stop all the personal accusations. Or at least take a look at the link in your signature.


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InvisibleBridgeburner
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Re: Lookin at the Ukraine Protests [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #19818941 - 04/09/14 03:35 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
That's what I'm saying.  Maybe pro Russian citizens don't care for unelected regimes?

What makes you think a coup supported by the West is legitimate?  :shrug:



It was a revolution by the people. Other countries should always support democratic values. If the West supports it, fine. We in Eastern Europe look up to the States and the West because it really stands against dictatorship to us. We live in the shadow of Russia which is still a grave threat. The West isn't Mordor.


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InvisibleBridgeburner
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Re: Lookin at the Ukraine Protests [Re: MightyMustache]
    #19818945 - 04/09/14 03:36 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

MightyMustache said:
???

Where did you pick up about massive riots after Yanukovych's election? There wasnt a single building being stormed then.

Nothing happened until Yanukovych (and not the citizens) decided for russian integration. That's when the Euromaidan revolution took place. And there's nothing democratic about a president, elected or not, deciding to go against his people's wishes. Hence why it was a revolution and not a coup.

And nobody got to vote about it either.

But hey, i guess a bunch of people that want democracy are evil right? And stuff like this:Russians taking hostages and planting explosives is nothing to be frowned upon.



BTW this is pretty much how people in the Baltic States, Ukraine and Poland see it :thumbup:


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InvisibleShins
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Re: Lookin at the Ukraine Protests [Re: Bridgeburner] * 1
    #19819509 - 04/09/14 05:27 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Show proof it was a "popular revolution!" by my eyes it looked like small groups of violent extremists staging a coup.the day after it became 100% clear the president was rejecting the EU.

you guys obviously want Ukraine to join the EU so you've chosen a side and are propegating heavily biased messages.  I personally could care less who ukraine deals with or doesn't, HOWEVER its quite annoying to watch yet another western backed, stealth government overthrow followed by propaganda and lies akin to people shouting "the earth is flat!" in an attempt to cover for crimes committed to benifit the globalist imperialists.

its getting really old.


--------------------
http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Lookin at the Ukraine Protests [Re: Shins]
    #19820983 - 04/09/14 09:56 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
Show proof it was a "popular revolution!" by my eyes it looked like small groups of violent extremists staging a coup.the day after it became 100% clear the president was rejecting the EU.

you guys obviously want Ukraine to join the EU so you've chosen a side and are propegating heavily biased messages.  I personally could care less who ukraine deals with or doesn't, HOWEVER its quite annoying to watch yet another western backed, stealth government overthrow followed by propaganda and lies akin to people shouting "the earth is flat!" in an attempt to cover for crimes committed to benifit the globalist imperialists.

its getting really old.



:thumbup:

Ukraine is regionally split in regards to what the people want.  Northwest Ukraine is pro West, Southeast Ukraine is pro Russia.  Why not let each region decide for themselves what they want, similar to what Crimea did?  I really don't know why we should force East Ukraine to join the west against their will.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


Edited by Falcon91Wolvrn03 (04/09/14 10:11 PM)


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InvisibleBridgeburner
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Re: Lookin at the Ukraine Protests [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #19822005 - 04/10/14 04:43 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
:thumbup:

Ukraine is regionally split in regards to what the people want.  Northwest Ukraine is pro West, Southeast Ukraine is pro Russia.  Why not let each region decide for themselves what they want, similar to what Crimea did?  I really don't know why we should force East Ukraine to join the west against their will.



It is not split. Its the image Russia is projecting through direct propaganda. It is trying to split Ukraine as punishment for the revolution. Russia annexed Crimea by illegal means and there wasnt a referendum; it was an illegal joke. Russia is hatemongering and Putin needs to be stopped URGENTLY. They are talking about invading former USSR countries and restoring the Soviet Union for Gods sake.


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InvisibleBridgeburner
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Re: Lookin at the Ukraine Protests [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #19822459 - 04/10/14 08:19 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

The Fruits Of Russification, From The Baltics To Kazakhstan

In recent weeks, the Russian government has articulated what might be called the Putin Doctrine, a blanket assertion that Moscow has the right and the obligation to protect Russians anywhere in the world.

Speaking on Russian television last month, Dmitry Peskov, spokesman for President Vladimir Putin, said that "Russia is the country on which the Russian world is based" and that Putin "is probably the main guarantor of the safety of the Russian world."

The ebbing and flowing of the Russian Empire and the Soviet Union over recent centuries have left millions of ethnic Russians and Russian speakers outside the borders of today's Russian Federation.

Many of them -- from Moldova's Transdniester to eastern Ukraine and elsewhere -- have responded to the Putin Doctrine with calls for Russian "protection."

A banner outside a government building in eastern Ukraine's Donetsk that is occupied by pro-Russian separatists reads: "Russia! Save us from slavery."



The Kremlin's new position has come into sharp focus in recent weeks in the Ukrainian region of Crimea -- annexed by Russia last month -- and in the southern and eastern regions of Ukraine. Russian nationalists such as the Eurasianist ideologue Aleksandr Dugin refer to this region by the historical name "Novorossiya," or "New Russia," which also encompasses several southern regions of Russia including Rostov Oblast and Stavropol and Krasnodar krais.



Ethnic Cleansing In The Baltics

Farther north, there are a little over 1 million ethnic Russians in the three Baltic States. Although the region was part of the Russian Empire, almost all the Russians living there today trace their origins back to the Soviet era.

Under the 1939 Molotov-Ribbentrop pact between the Soviet Union and Nazi Germany, the three Baltic states came under the Soviet sphere of influence and the first Soviet mass deportations of locals began in 1941.

The deportations and Stalinist Russification policies were stepped up. In all, about 200,000 Estonians, Latvian, and Lithuanians were deported during the Soviet period. Today, Russians compose about 24 percent of Estonia's population, 27 percent of Latvia's, and almost 5 percent of Lithuania's.




While the West and Europe sleeps Soviet Union came back
:cop:


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InvisibleShins
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Re: Lookin at the Ukraine Protests [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #19828372 - 04/11/14 01:01 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Anti EU protestors are fighting back  now and reclaiming government buildings.  Blackwater mercinaries are working for euromaiden.  USA spent 5 billion the padt few years trying to push Ukraine to the EU.

Its so blantant now every time the globalists try to expand..


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http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/


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InvisibleBridgeburner
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Re: Lookin at the Ukraine Protests [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #19832544 - 04/12/14 12:25 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/opinion/article/6-more-russian-myths-about-crimea/497899.html






http://www.themoscowtimes.com/opinion/article/why-the-crisis-in-ukraine-will-determine-what-happens-in-syria/497908.html

ow, global players are most concerned about the unexpected appearance of a "European front" in Ukraine, where NATO and Russian interests come into conflict and their military forces stand at only a short remove from each other. That situation is of far greater importance for the world than what is happening in distant Syria.

Although these conflicts might appear unrelated at first glance, they have emerged as a result of several common factors. These include the desire of Russian leaders to counteract the Tahrir Square and Maidan-style uprisings that have toppled legitimately elected leaders and to assert a "new role for Russia that the West cannot ignore," their geopolitical interest in maintaining Russia's presence at its Black Sea port in Sevastopol and its Mediterranean Sea port in Tartus, Syria, and the desire to mobilize and consolidate President Vladimir Putin's electorate at home. Putin's foreign policy "success" in fending off a U.S. bombing of Syria might have won him a dozen or so popularity points with voters, but the annexation of Crimea unleashed a flood of patriotic fervor that, with the help of state-controlled media, boosted his ratings to record highs and effectively drowned out all voices of protest.


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InvisibleBridgeburner
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Re: Lookin at the Ukraine Protests [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #19833371 - 04/12/14 03:21 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Russian troops are operating in Eastern Ukraine directing a militia takeover: West silent. Germany and EU we're trying to "deescalate."


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InvisibleShins
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Re: Lookin at the Ukraine Protests [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #19835037 - 04/12/14 09:36 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

They're ukranians and (big suprise) they aren't happy with the junta government.

Israeli, EU, US, etc. and Blackwater troops are directing the eurimaidens


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http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Lookin at the Ukraine Protests [Re: Shins]
    #19836921 - 04/13/14 10:16 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
They're ukranians and (big suprise) they aren't happy with the junta government.

Israeli, EU, US, etc. and Blackwater troops are directing the eurimaidens



:flowstone:


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Invisibleivi
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Re: Lookin at the Ukraine Protests [Re: zappaisgod] * 1
    #19854423 - 04/16/14 02:29 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)



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InvisibleBridgeburner
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Re: Lookin at the Ukraine Protests [Re: ivi]
    #19866117 - 04/18/14 03:25 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

ivi said:
Fuck Russia!

http://blogs.piie.com/realtime/?p=4254



ivi, my brother!


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OfflineMightyMustache
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Re: Lookin at the Ukraine Protests [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #19872891 - 04/20/14 08:27 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Yeah it's ridiculous how Russia is taking advantage of the situation.

They say they will do A, then proceed to do B, and blame party X for doing B.. And then even get away with it. Multiple times. Not so friendly but you gotta admit they are a smart bunch.

Now that Kiev has been granting some of their opponent's wishes, i just hope they calm down after Easter.


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Offlinestarfire_xes
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Re: Lookin at the Ukraine Protests [Re: MightyMustache]
    #19872982 - 04/20/14 09:11 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

The Ukraine situtation is mostly because Putin fucking owns Obama.  :lolsy:


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