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sonamdrukpa
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Registered: 10/18/11
Posts: 2,777
Last seen: 3 months, 2 days
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Re: New York Cancer Victim Double Screwed by Obamacare [Re: zappaisgod]
#19791365 - 04/03/14 07:19 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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sonamdrukpa said: I never consented to the existence of the services I take advantage of and they will continue to existence regardless of whether or not I do so. I think those are the only two situations under which it could plausibly be argued that a person has a responsibility towards something. So no.
You most certainly consent by using them. Pay up sucker.
There are many things I take advantage of but which I am not responsible for. The radio. The beauty of the stars. Wild berries. Anonymous kindnesses from strangers. Samples at grocery stores. Sports' teams success.
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I would still be under the protection of the U.S. armed forces, would I not?
Not really
Splitting hairs over whether or not it's possible for me to avoid sucking on the tit of the state but not over whether it's possible for me to avoid the benefits of the state, eh?
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I think you're missing my analogy here.
Your analogy was stupid, inappropriate and nonsensical.
Your refusal to deal with counterarguments to your assertions is stupid, inappropriate and nonsensical.
I have dealt with every single point you have specifically raised. Decyphering idiotic codespeak is not my job.
You claimed that you and citizens like you have built America. I asserted that that was not the case via a simple analogy of whether or not I built my house - building refers to the formation of an entity, not to the perpetuation or re-structuring of such. Your assertion that you have built many houses, in what I would consider the proper sense, is neither here nor there.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
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Re: New York Cancer Victim Double Screwed by Obamacare [Re: sonamdrukpa]
#19791414 - 04/03/14 07:29 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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sonamdrukpa said:
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zappaisgod said:
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sonamdrukpa said: I never consented to the existence of the services I take advantage of and they will continue to existence regardless of whether or not I do so. I think those are the only two situations under which it could plausibly be argued that a person has a responsibility towards something. So no.
You most certainly consent by using them. Pay up sucker.
There are many things I take advantage of but which I am not responsible for. The radio. The beauty of the stars. Wild berries. Anonymous kindnesses from strangers. Samples at grocery stores. Sports' teams success.
I think you are getting a little too cute with defining responsibility. If you take advantage of something that others have to work to provide and don't pay you are a parasite by definition.Quote:
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I would still be under the protection of the U.S. armed forces, would I not?
Not really
Splitting hairs over whether or not it's possible for me to avoid sucking on the tit of the state but not over whether it's possible for me to avoid the benefits of the state, eh?
If some Inuits from Muklukistan or whatever they call the NW Territories these days decide to cross the border and raid your hut I doubt there will be much response from the US military.Quote:
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I have dealt with every single point you have specifically raised. Decyphering idiotic codespeak is not my job.
You claimed that you and citizens like you have built America. I asserted that that was not the case via a simple analogy of whether or not I built my house - building refers to the formation of an entity, not to the perpetuation or re-structuring of such. Your assertion that you have built many houses, in what I would consider the proper sense, is neither here nor there.
What a bunch of nonsense. Do you think the United States is exactly the same as it was in 1776? Clearly somebody built something on the framework of the Constitution and the Founders were not the sole builders. Architects maybe. Architects do not often actually build anything. I don't think they envisioned parasites either
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sonamdrukpa
Wayfarer


Registered: 10/18/11
Posts: 2,777
Last seen: 3 months, 2 days
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Re: New York Cancer Victim Double Screwed by Obamacare [Re: zappaisgod]
#19791627 - 04/03/14 08:08 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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zappaisgod said: I think you are getting a little too cute with defining responsibility. If you take advantage of something that others have to work to provide and don't pay you are a parasite by definition.
I'm making a narrow philosophic point, it's true. But like I said, I find it unavoidable in a practical sense to avoid siphoning off of the state - and it's also unavoidable for me to pay my taxes. I give the state exactly what it says I should give and I give that because that's what it says I should give.
The benefits and the "responsibility" in that transaction exists only because the state says so at the point of a gun, and so I feel no essential loyalty towards the aims of the state or the responsibilities of citizenship. I don't feel like that's an inconsequential point - if the laws were different, I would have different "responsibilities." So if you want to claim that the existence of governmental benefits creates a responsibility for those that use them, you also have a responsibility to chin up and accept the consequences of broad policy decisions like the ACA on a personal level.
So I am completely blase that policy decisions like Obamacare help some people while screwing others so long as the the net gain is positive. There is no responsibility for the state to avoid screwing people beyond what the laws and courts say our rights are, nor is there some right for you not to be screwed just because there are people like illegal immigrants or welfare recipients who put little or nothing into the system.
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If some Inuits from Muklukistan or whatever they call the NW Territories these days decide to cross the border and raid your hut I doubt there will be much response from the US military.
How about my benefiting from nuclear deterence?
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You claimed that you and citizens like you have built America. I asserted that that was not the case via a simple analogy of whether or not I built my house - building refers to the formation of an entity, not to the perpetuation or re-structuring of such. Your assertion that you have built many houses, in what I would consider the proper sense, is neither here nor there.
What a bunch of nonsense. Do you think the United States is exactly the same as it was in 1776? Clearly somebody built something on the framework of the Constitution and the Founders were not the sole builders. Architects maybe. Architects do not often actually build anything. I don't think they envisioned parasites either
No, it's not the same as it was in 1776. Neither is my house the same as it was when it was built. That doesn't mean I built my house. We perpetuate the state. We alter it. We do not build it. And we do not consent to its existence through a passive acceptance of that perpetuation.
Edited by sonamdrukpa (04/03/14 08:14 PM)
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sonamdrukpa
Wayfarer


Registered: 10/18/11
Posts: 2,777
Last seen: 3 months, 2 days
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Re: New York Cancer Victim Double Screwed by Obamacare [Re: sonamdrukpa]
#19791732 - 04/03/14 08:32 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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In other words, if you want to claim that I have a responsibility towards the state to pay for the benefits I enjoy, then the woman in this article has a responsibility towards the state to be screwed over by the ACA.
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