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Offlinebengal
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First mono: How do these look? Premature opening? Need advice!
    #19791552 - 04/03/14 07:53 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

In the fruiting stage of my second grow, and first mono.  5 qts of rye spawned to 50/50 coir/verm, no casing.  Oakridge strain, MS.  Everything was looking great, however I recently noticed two veils beginning to break way to early, on a couple short stubs (see first two pictures).  I am trying to trouble shoot the issue, and thus could use some advice.  From what I have read so far, the main causes for "premature openings" can be lack of FAE, incorrect moisture levels, insufficient lighting, and/or genetics.  As far as FAE, they seem to be getting enough.  I loosened the polyfil in the bottom holes, plus I have been fanning the tub once or twice daily, with a fan aimed at the closet during the night.  The humidity level seems to be fine, with beads of moisture covering the substrate, walls, and with my hygrometer reading 95+. I can't see how lighting would be an issue either. I am using a 26 watt, 6500K daylight bulb, placed very close to tub on a 12/12hr cycle (provided a picture of placement).  Based on the pictures and this information, do you think its solely genetics? Is there anything I can/should be doing at this stage? Temp has been between 63-69F.  I am hoping that its just these couple that are prematurely opening and the rest will grow to a full normal/size, but I am not that confident as the ones that are opening are the biggest so far.  Any advice is GREATLY appreciated as always! Thanks!

Veil prematurely tearing (sorry for blurry picture)
Cap seems to be starting to prematurely open on this one as well




Light placement


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Edited by bengal (04/03/14 08:54 PM)

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Invisible13shroomsM
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Re: First mono: How do these look? Premature opening? Need advice! [Re: bengal]
    #19792098 - 04/03/14 09:46 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

too much moisture in your substrate, more fae for a few days, dont let the surface dry out though.  :thumbup:

it looks like condensation was heavy during colonization due to the off color ring of myc around the edge of your substrate.  :smirk:

:bonghit2:


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Offlinebengal
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Re: First mono: How do these look? Premature opening? Need advice! [Re: 13shrooms]
    #19792274 - 04/03/14 10:19 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Alright thanks!  I didn't think excess moisture would cause them to open early, but im glad it could be that as opposed to genetics.  I will fan more over the next few days. Thanks!


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Offlinekarp


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Re: First mono: How do these look? Premature opening? Need advice! [Re: bengal]
    #19792329 - 04/03/14 10:28 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

you really don't need to manually fan.  just point the fan that you have in the general direction of the tub and run it all day and night. fae should be constant.

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OfflineQuexl
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Re: First mono: How do these look? Premature opening? Need advice! [Re: bengal]
    #19792440 - 04/03/14 10:50 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

bengal said:
Veil prematurely tearing (sorry for blurry picture)




They're looking good, very healthy looking I'd say, awesome job. I'm jealous. :thumbup: The early tearing, very likely it's just genetic.


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grain spawn bacteria info

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InvisibleGeorge Sears
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Re: First mono: How do these look? Premature opening? Need advice! [Re: Quexl]
    #19792452 - 04/03/14 10:53 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

No, I agree with 13. Bengal, your water content is definitely off. I wouldn't pick them just yet though; wait for their caps to flatten out a little and don't let them drop too many spores. You should still get a decent harvest from those :thumbup:


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Offlinebengal
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Re: First mono: How do these look? Premature opening? Need advice! [Re: George Sears]
    #19792474 - 04/03/14 10:59 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Ahhhhhh okay.  Its weird though, because when I initially was mixing the coir/verm and did the squeeze test for field capacity, I thought the water content was a little bit too low but left it as it was. Also, none of the caps or anything look slimy at all, but I will take your guy's word for it as you definitely know more than me.  There definitely is a lot of beads of moisture on the surface however.  Is fanning the only thing I can do at this point? Should I maybe leave the lid cracked or off for a day or two?  Im praying that not all of the pins will turn out puny.  If they do on this flush, given that they will have absorbed a fair amount of the water, can I expect a better second flush do you think?  Thanks for all the advice guys.

Edited by bengal (04/03/14 11:13 PM)

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Offlinebengal
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Re: First mono: How do these look? Premature opening? Need advice! [Re: bengal]
    #19792509 - 04/03/14 11:07 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Just curios tacoman, what are the main reasons that your definite about my water content being off? I'm trying to learn as much as possible.


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InvisibleGeorge Sears
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Re: First mono: How do these look? Premature opening? Need advice! [Re: bengal]
    #19792538 - 04/03/14 11:15 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

I was actually thinking it might have been because you had too little water, and now that you confirmed it I'm more sure of that. I just didn't wanna contradict what 13 said if I wasn't sure.

Anyway, the reason I'm mostly sure it's too little water is because I've had the same problem you're facing now. If you look at the right pic in my signature I had a couple do the same thing for a little bit. I've also seen the same problem with other users on here before. Unfortunately, I have no scientific reason to explain why that seems to happen, other than the fact that the mycelium knows its running out of water so it's just trying to get the fruits to sporolate ASAP. Just what I've noticed in my past observations. :shrug:


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Offlinebengal
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Re: First mono: How do these look? Premature opening? Need advice! [Re: George Sears]
    #19792558 - 04/03/14 11:20 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Oooo okay.  Thanks for the insight! Its a tricky situation though, and i'm still not certain about the moisture level.  Because, as I said, when I was doing the coir/verm, I thought it was a little on the dry side, however I left it as it was.  However, once I put it into fruiting, it seemed as if there was plenty of moisture, as there are a ton of moisture build up on the surface as well as the walls. Furthermore, the first few times I took off the lid, there was literally water pouring off the lid down the walls. Right now, there is a ton of water underneath the liner in between the liner and the bottom/sides of the plastic bin.  This is what now leads me to believe that there may be too much moisture.  Ahh.. I really don't know.  Is the humidity level via my hygrometer not a good way of measuring proper moisture levels in a monotub? Right now it reads about 96.


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InvisibleGeorge Sears
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Re: First mono: How do these look? Premature opening? Need advice! [Re: bengal]
    #19792567 - 04/03/14 11:22 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Yeah a hygrometer won't tell you much about what's going on with your sub. You can probably just ditch it now and find something else to use it for.

But yeah, I'm not really sure what else to tell you. Just wait for the caps to open a little more I guess? Hopefully they'll be a little better in a few days. :thumbup:


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Offlinebengal
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Re: First mono: How do these look? Premature opening? Need advice! [Re: 13shrooms]
    #19792571 - 04/03/14 11:24 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

13shrooms said:
too much moisture in your substrate, more fae for a few days, dont let the surface dry out though.  :thumbup:

it looks like condensation was heavy during colonization due to the off color ring of myc around the edge of your substrate.  :smirk:

:bonghit2:




13shrooms, thanks for the insight.  However, im not sure about the off coloring of myc around the edges of the substrate. I reexamined it, and the darker coloring of the substrate near the edges was simply caused by shadows. The mycelium is more or less the same coloring throughout the entire substrate.


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Offlinebengal
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Re: First mono: How do these look? Premature opening? Need advice! [Re: George Sears]
    #19792585 - 04/03/14 11:27 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

No worries, thank you for the insight, its greatly appreciated. I think I am going to just keep fanning it over the next few days, as if I were to bet whether the moisture content was too high or too low, i'd definitely say its on the high side, and I also figure that more FAE can't really hurt.  Hopefully some grow to a decent size!!! :popcorn:


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Invisible13shroomsM
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Re: First mono: How do these look? Premature opening? Need advice! [Re: bengal]
    #19792981 - 04/04/14 03:40 AM (9 years, 11 months ago)

its deff a moisture content issue, too dry and they would turn black and abort, too much and they mature early. :mushroomgrow:

cool on your myc being normal then, I wasnt sure on the color, at first I though shadows but then I though it was excess moisture due to the condensation in your tub.. 

but I still say the condensation caused excess moisture in your substrate..  :smirk:

Ive had so much condensation my sub was floating, just have to remove the excess and give more fae until you notice normalcy then back to standard fruiting conditions.  :thumbup:

if you have a fan put it near the tub but not directly at it or you will dry the surface too fast and abort your pins.. 

or fan manually if thats your only option. :bonghit2:

if they do start to abort or dont reach full size then a 4hr submerged dunk and back into the tub will give a good second flush.  :super:


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OfflineNatureGuy92
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Re: First mono: How do these look? Premature opening? Need advice! [Re: 13shrooms]
    #19793145 - 04/04/14 05:50 AM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Ive been experimenting with no hole tubs and leaving the lids a little offset for an hr or so at a time,a few times a day, after reading a post from another member doing this. So far things are going alright. will take some adjustments just as a regular mono setup, but so far Ive found polyfil being more trouble than its worth. No matter how loose it was as soon as the lid went on humidity went right back up to near 100(granted they were only 1 inch holes)and Id still need to manually fan. I dnt feel its necessary to have extremeley large 2 in holes along the sides, when I can eachieve the same airflow offsetting the lids

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Invisible13shroomsM
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Re: First mono: How do these look? Premature opening? Need advice! [Re: NatureGuy92]
    #19793223 - 04/04/14 06:49 AM (9 years, 11 months ago)

umm you want you fruiting humidity to be high..  :confused2:

poly is your rh adjuster nothing more..

tight poly - holds rh and restricts fae
loose poly  - allows max fae while lowering your rh range

the whole goal to dialing in your tub is to allow maximum fae while still holding your desired rh range for fruiting..

using the lid isnt the same thing, stagnant air can lead to contams/mold but its a good things cubes arent ultra picky. :smirk:

:getstoned:


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:takingnotes:A M U:helpdesk:
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InvisibleSwampEyes
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Re: First mono: How do these look? Premature opening? Need advice! [Re: NatureGuy92]
    #19793242 - 04/04/14 07:01 AM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Nice work, bengal!  I saw this thread last night and was confused about the shadows (and camera flash maybe too?) causing that uneven coloration.  either way you've got some nice, fat little fruits growing!:dancingshroom:good luck! hope ya get some nice flushes outta that! :smoking:


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Offlinebengal
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Re: First mono: How do these look? Premature opening? Need advice! [Re: SwampEyes]
    #19793444 - 04/04/14 08:37 AM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Thanks Swampeyes, I hope I get a decent flush out of these also! Yea, sorry about that shadows, they definitely skew the image, although there was no flash used.  If all doesn't go well, I have more colonized rye of oakridge I am in the process of doing some g2g's for the next tub.

13shrooms, I really appreciate the insight.  I am now almost positive they are prematurely opening due to excess moisture.  As you stated, I should increase FAE until it seems to be at a normal level.  Even though the moisture level is much too high right now, would you still recommend leaving the lid on and just using a fan? Do you think it would hurt to leave the lid cracked for a bit in order to dry it out faster to proper levels? Or will solely a fan aimed near the closet be sufficient in lowering the moisture levels given where I am at? Sorry if I am being redundant, as I know you already mentioned to not leave the lid off, just want to make sure given my moisture levels.  I really would like to salvage this first flush as best as possible, as right now it seems that all the larger pins are at the first stages of premature tearing.  Thanks again!!!


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InvisibleSwampEyes
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Re: First mono: How do these look? Premature opening? Need advice! [Re: bengal]
    #19793477 - 04/04/14 08:52 AM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Hell yea, still haven't done any g2g'ing myself...seems like the best route to go if you trust your sterile procedure and SAB, which I don't quite yet. 

And I probably was mistaking your bright CFL reflecting on moisture for a camera flash.

Pretty sure as long as your bottom holes are tight with poly and your top holes are loose, your situation is ideal.  maybe play around with your fan speeds and placement to optimize your evaporation, without drying it out too much.  maybe that'll help with the moisture issue


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OfflineTheBeardedNerd
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Re: First mono: How do these look? Premature opening? Need advice! [Re: SwampEyes]
    #19793490 - 04/04/14 08:59 AM (9 years, 11 months ago)

I had the same issue with the tub I harvested today. It was too dry so I harvested what was open, gave it a good misting and put the lid back on to let the others finish.

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