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 Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
 
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,689
Loc: On the Border
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 Re: The Fallacy and Double-Standard of the Use of Anecdotes  [Re: Swami]
#2809408 - 06/19/04 06:24 PM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
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Preaching involves the process of judging those you preach to. Teaching just imparts knowledge free of judgement. There are spiritual teachers who are not preachers or gurus.
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: The Fallacy and Double-Standard of the Use of Anecdotes [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#2809418 - 06/19/04 06:29 PM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
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Thanks for noticing!  
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,689
Loc: On the Border
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Re: The Fallacy and Double-Standard of the Use of Anecdotes [Re: Swami]
#2809440 - 06/19/04 06:39 PM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
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I learned what a preacher is growing up in a Southern Baptist church. I have a good friend who is a Baptist preacher. I told him that he was evil for preaching, but he just laughed and told me to quit preaching to him.
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 fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: The Fallacy and Double-Standard of the Use of Anecdotes [Re: fireworks_god]
#2809794 - 06/19/04 09:12 PM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Huehuecoyotl said:
Preaching involves the process of judging those you preach to.
It doesn't have to. You are making a generalization that cannot be made. Preaching, by definition, is proclaiming; getting in front of an audience and announcing something. If I were to stand on a box in Wal-Mart and yell "I proclaim that the Earth revolves around the Sun", I am not by any means judging the people I am preaching to. I am announcing a fact to a group of people... it can be as simple as that.
Does that mean that no preacher has ever undergone the process of judging the audience he is preaching to? Definitely not, but it has to be noted that there is a difference between preaching and the motivations for preaching. To define all preaching as "evil" (whatever the hell that is) is rather short-sighted. Also, to say that nothing can ever be learned from any preacher or guru is just ignorant. 
Quote:
Teaching just imparts knowledge free of judgement. There are spiritual teachers who are not preachers or gurus.
Just as there are spiritual preachers and gurus who teach. 
 
Peace. 
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If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
  
 
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: The Fallacy and Double-Standard of the Use of Anecdotes [Re: fireworks_god]
#2809881 - 06/19/04 10:02 PM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
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Why Wal-Mart?
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,689
Loc: On the Border
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Re: The Fallacy and Double-Standard of the Use of Anecdotes [Re: Swami]
#2809899 - 06/19/04 10:10 PM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
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I would use the court house steps or possibly a town square if one existed in the town I was in. Catering to Wal-Mart is another example of furthering the agenda of big business.
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: The Fallacy and Double-Standard of the Use of Anecdotes [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#2809908 - 06/19/04 10:13 PM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
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It wasn't always a big business. Are you against success? Should we squash fledgling businesses before they grow?
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,689
Loc: On the Border
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Re: The Fallacy and Double-Standard of the Use of Anecdotes [Re: Swami]
#2809972 - 06/19/04 10:35 PM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
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Oh man, come on surely YOU recognize sarcasm.
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: The Fallacy and Double-Standard of the Use of Anecdotes [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#2809987 - 06/19/04 10:40 PM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
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Apparently you only recognize blunt-force sarcasm. There are deeper and subtler levels, grasshopper.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,689
Loc: On the Border
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Re: The Fallacy and Double-Standard of the Use of Anecdotes [Re: Swami]
#2810001 - 06/19/04 10:44 PM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
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Swami:1
Huehuecoyotl:0
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: The Fallacy and Double-Standard of the Use of Anecdotes [Re: Swami]
#2812534 - 06/20/04 10:59 PM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Swami said:
Why Wal-Mart?
Why, because they sell boxes to stand on at low enough prices for the average preacher to afford, of course.
Peace.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: The Fallacy and Double-Standard of the Use of Anecdotes [Re: fireworks_god]
#2812586 - 06/20/04 11:13 PM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
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Ever the practical one. 
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Panoramix
Getafix
Registered: 11/26/03
Posts: 634
Loc: Everywhere else
Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
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Re: The Fallacy and Double-Standard of the Use of Anecdotes [Re: ferago2]
#2815159 - 06/21/04 07:38 PM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
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"That doesn't mean that there _are_ such things, nor does it mean that it's even worth considering that there are such things."
My pocket invisible giant space dragon takes offense to your offhand dismissal of his existance and potential importance in this world. And so he should; he's what makes the world go 'round, after all. The fact that neither you nor Swami could prove the non-existance of my invisible space dragon is exactly my point. Nothing gets DISproved, possible proofs just get refuted. So I don't see how Swami can be so firm in his BELIEF that the laws of physics will never get bent or broken. As a debunker, you think he'd recognize the value of keeping one's beliefs ambiguous and flexible. I guess he's got a lot of faith in the science of his forefathers.
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Don't worry, I'm wrong.
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Moonshoe
Blue Mantis
Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 27,202
Loc: Iceland
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Re: The Fallacy and Double-Standard of the Use of Anecdotes [Re: Panoramix]
#2816763 - 06/22/04 10:22 AM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
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"On the "Other Drugs" board, one may hear a story about someone going permanently insane from LSD and instantly dismiss it. Here, someone hears a story about prayer and healing and instantly accepts it.
Apparently the validity of the story is nowhere near as important as to whether or not it reinforces our preconceived ideas about the subject being discussed.
It sort of reminds of the OJ Simpson murder trial. Black America overwhelming thought him innocent. White America thought him guilty. The facts seem to be largely irrelevant. "
Well, when it comes to spirituality (or any anecdotes for that matter) i think the key is simply to 1. filter out immediatly the obvious crap (or that which appears to be obvious crap to you) since this is undoubtedly not going to work for you. an example is that article that was posted in the 'is this guy crazy? i dont think he is" thread about underground lizards, masons and zeta reticuli.
Than, when you have something that doesnt seem like total crap or at least appeals to you on some level, than look for a way you can verify it, simple as that.
For example, carlos castaneda's works appealed to me. I didnt arbitrarily decide to believe nor to disbelieve. I simply read the books, who claimed to contain techniques to percieve and deal with alternate or seperate realities, and tried those techniques as they came up. The results were exactly as the book claimed. A 'tighter' more efficient life, more happiness, less self indulging... than later prolounged dreams, lucid dreams, spiritual dreams...
In my spirituality i take nothing on faith, i keep an open mind and try things that appeal to me, if they work than there is no more need for questioning, if they dont there is no more need for belief.
Its quite simple, the mistake people make is believing you either have a rational/scientific mind or a believing/spiritual mind. You should combine the two.
Apply a controlled method to your spiritual exploration. When trying a technique like meditation or OBE or something, keep a log. Maintain the variables, observe results and draw conclusions. Thus you can avoid the fallacy of anecdotes.
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Panoramix
Getafix
Registered: 11/26/03
Posts: 634
Loc: Everywhere else
Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
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Re: The Fallacy and Double-Standard of the Use of Anecdotes [Re: Moonshoe]
#2817439 - 06/22/04 02:23 PM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
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"Its quite simple, the mistake people make is believing you either have a rational/scientific mind or a believing/spiritual mind. you should combine the two."
Yeah, if your mind can be defined in such a limiting way then all that says to me is that you're Not Doing It Right.
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Don't worry, I'm wrong.
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Strumpling
Neuronaut
Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 7,571
Loc: Hyperspace
Last seen: 12 years, 10 months
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Re: The Fallacy and Double-Standard of the Use of Anecdotes [Re: Swami]
#2817613 - 06/22/04 03:31 PM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
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"Apparently the validity of the story is nowhere near as important as to whether or not it reinforces our preconceived ideas about the subject being discussed."
Beautiful
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Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE
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ZenGecko
enthusiast
Registered: 11/02/03
Posts: 285
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
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Re: The Fallacy and Double-Standard of the Use of Anecdotes [Re: Swami]
#2820033 - 06/23/04 04:11 AM (19 years, 9 months ago) |
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You must all sieze the pebble from swami's hand!!! As for me i brought my own damn pebble and none of you fucking grasshoppers can have it.
Sincerely,
That which is, and has no choice but to be
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,441
Loc: Under the C
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Re: The Fallacy and Double-Standard of the Use of Anecdotes [Re: ZenGecko]
#19789642 - 04/03/14 01:55 PM (10 years, 15 days ago) |
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A classic!
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