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Mr. Alien
I will abduct andprobe your anus



Registered: 01/14/14
Posts: 6,290
Loc: Star Wars Galaxy
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MS to LC, the worst way i know.. but why exactly?
#19769318 - 03/30/14 03:47 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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Please im a little confuse.. i know is the worst way.. but why? If the MS syringe is clean and you sterilized the needle each time you inject MS.. why is going to get contam?
Edited by Mr. Alien (03/30/14 03:48 PM)
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 62,905
Loc: Van Isle
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Re: MS to LC, the worst way i know.. but why exactly? [Re: Mr. Alien]
#19769339 - 03/30/14 03:52 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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because prints are almost never truly clean, we fruit in non sterile conditions
-------------------- It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn
I'm tired do me a favor
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Mr. Alien
I will abduct andprobe your anus



Registered: 01/14/14
Posts: 6,290
Loc: Star Wars Galaxy
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Re: MS to LC, the worst way i know.. but why exactly? [Re: cronicr]
#19769354 - 03/30/14 03:54 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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Ok...And why MS syringe work on grains and pf tek? if they are dirty...
Edited by Mr. Alien (03/30/14 04:00 PM)
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 62,905
Loc: Van Isle
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Re: MS to LC, the worst way i know.. but why exactly? [Re: Mr. Alien]
#19769412 - 03/30/14 04:03 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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thats simple with spore syringes you just knock up jars and wait, with a lc you wait a week or two for it to colonize another few days to show growth on grains, if its not clean you just waisted almost a month, with agar what ya see is wut ya get
-------------------- It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn
I'm tired do me a favor
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Mr. Alien
I will abduct andprobe your anus



Registered: 01/14/14
Posts: 6,290
Loc: Star Wars Galaxy
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Re: MS to LC, the worst way i know.. but why exactly? [Re: cronicr]
#19769452 - 03/30/14 04:11 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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Noo i mean.. If Spore syringes are almost contam every time, why we have a better success rate with grains than with LC?
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solomilitia
The offender
Registered: 03/25/14
Posts: 1,419
Last seen: 10 years, 7 months
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Re: MS to LC, the worst way i know.. but why exactly? [Re: Mr. Alien]
#19769478 - 03/30/14 04:17 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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I am just a noob to this how ever I am having some great results with MS and LC I am working with GT and B+ out of 4 LC jars only one contamed ! using water from the tap I found unreliable results so I started using water from my fish tank ( boiled then pressure cooked) using home make self healing injection ports I just nocked up 12 half pint jars and had full colonization with no contams its possible I just hit the MS jack pot but im getting some really nice fruits on pf cakes all knocked with MS LC
--------------------
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Mr. Alien
I will abduct andprobe your anus



Registered: 01/14/14
Posts: 6,290
Loc: Star Wars Galaxy
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Re: MS to LC, the worst way i know.. but why exactly? [Re: solomilitia]
#19769511 - 03/30/14 04:22 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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Hmmm no for me.. im not going to inoculate MS with LC if i have AGAR. i was just wondering that...
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 62,905
Loc: Van Isle
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Re: MS to LC, the worst way i know.. but why exactly? [Re: Mr. Alien]
#19769519 - 03/30/14 04:24 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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it's just a pain in the ass because you can't spot contams in lc's for the most part so agar to lc is your most reliable bet
-------------------- It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn
I'm tired do me a favor
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Mr. Alien
I will abduct andprobe your anus



Registered: 01/14/14
Posts: 6,290
Loc: Star Wars Galaxy
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Re: MS to LC, the worst way i know.. but why exactly? [Re: cronicr]
#19769625 - 03/30/14 04:50 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
cronicr said: it's just a pain in the ass because you can't spot contams in lc's for the most part so agar to lc is your most reliable bet

Damn right you are
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maddchef
Vaginal escape artist



Registered: 09/04/09
Posts: 5,602
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Re: MS to LC, the worst way i know.. but why exactly? [Re: Mr. Alien]
#19769815 - 03/30/14 05:28 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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An LC is more habitable to bacteria as well as mold. So instead of one spore germinating in a grain jar you have thousands in an LC.
You provide an ideal environment for everything to grow.
This is why bucket tek fails from time to time, from spawn that was not truly clean but looks otherwise so.
-------------------- In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king.
All mushrooms are edible, but some only once.....
Easier than cakes
I do science and shit.
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Mr. Alien
I will abduct andprobe your anus



Registered: 01/14/14
Posts: 6,290
Loc: Star Wars Galaxy
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Re: MS to LC, the worst way i know.. but why exactly? [Re: maddchef]
#19769906 - 03/30/14 05:53 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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Hmm no I'm sorry, i don't get it.. i though a single grain is also an ideal home for everything.
And you said "one spore is germinating in a grain jar" i though it was millions of spores germinating in a grain jar in both MS syringe and MS-LC?
Edited by Mr. Alien (03/30/14 05:59 PM)
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Saint
Pope



Registered: 12/05/13
Posts: 76
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Re: MS to LC, the worst way i know.. but why exactly? [Re: cronicr]
#19770884 - 03/30/14 09:47 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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Yep if your doing spore you want to do agar first so you can see what you have. I wasted 4 months so far, trying to do LC from a MS and a few pounds of grain's just to find this out. And even doing agar is a pain in my ass. IF YOU HAVE SPORE SAVE some time and find out what you have with agar first. There is only a few ways to make sure spores is with out a contam. I am get tired of using bleach to clean every time I try spores.
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Mr. Alien
I will abduct andprobe your anus



Registered: 01/14/14
Posts: 6,290
Loc: Star Wars Galaxy
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Re: MS to LC, the worst way i know.. but why exactly? [Re: Saint]
#19771026 - 03/30/14 10:13 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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The only use i can find for LC is for inoculate myco bags without having the problem of open air exposure, like we do with grains.
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blindingleaf
blue collar underworld



Registered: 07/19/13
Posts: 22,008
Loc: sub-surface unseen
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Re: MS to LC, the worst way i know.. but why exactly? [Re: Mr. Alien]
#19771154 - 03/30/14 10:38 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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yup u nailed it!! i only use LC for grain bags b/c i only have an SAB that is small so grain to bag is hard. i have done it with success but its too iffy for me. I'm only using a 66qt tote for my SAB. i always test my LC tho, ALWAYS. and i ONLY start them with agar wedge, not spores
-------------------- A few thoughts on cultivation
MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!!
The whole is greater than the sum of its parts
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elasticaltiger
Like Tigers in Coitus




Registered: 06/24/13
Posts: 8,438
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Re: MS to LC, the worst way i know.. but why exactly? [Re: cronicr] 2
#19771256 - 03/30/14 11:01 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
cronicr said: thats simple with spore syringes you just knock up jars and wait, with a lc you wait a week or two...
Just to expand on this.
When you knock up a jar with spores. Everything starts from 'zero'. There might be bacterial contamination in the syringe. But there is a good chance that spores will germinate before the bacteria can ever take a foothold.
If you inject a spore solution into a highly aqueous/nutritious environment just for the purpose of germination and colonization, you're almost GUARANTEED to germinate/multiply any contamination that may have been in the water of the spore solution.
Let's not forget also that LC is dynamic. It is not 'clean or not clean' in the general sense. Perhaps one week after MS LC inoculation and colonization of myc in the LC, you use this inoculate to inject five jars. They all turn out good. No problem. You leave the LC on the shelf for two weeks before you do your next round of jars.
In those two weeks, contaminating bacteria that may have only been starting to divide when you did your first inoculation, will now overrun the entire LC.
The dynamic of LC makes it unreliable. The older the LC the more likely you're going to get contaminated results.
I've inoculated with LC and had success. But I probably won't do it again.
When I work with agar I can visually see what I'm growing. I can cut away from contamination. I can do this as many times as it takes.
With LC it's going to be a crapshoot.
Why work with MS inoculation of LC when you can just inoculate your jars, then for a small investment, culture and clone from the results you've produced which almost guarantees you success (with a little patience)
That being said. If you're trying to inoculate 100 jars and you only have money for 1 ms syringe then maybe LC is a quick and easy way to quickly expand your inoculate.
But most people don't have a gun to their head to inoculate a hundred jars in one week.
-------------------- First time growing cakes? DON'T make a Shotgun Fruiting Chamber
The Shmuvbox. - The Old TC's Like it
Afraid to Start Growing From Your Own Prints? Drop it Like a Tiger! No Pouring. No Syringes. No Cutting. No flaming. No Contamination. No Bullshit.
"The best thing to do while your waiting is to start more stuff. I usually got so much happening that I have tossed projects simply because I didn't have time for them. -Pastywhite QFT
Pastywhite's Easy Agar Tek (PastyPlates)
Tiger Drop Video Demos By munchauzen
Van Gogh would’ve sold more than one painting if he’d put tigers in them.―Bill Watterson
EZEKIEL 23:20
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Mr. Alien
I will abduct andprobe your anus



Registered: 01/14/14
Posts: 6,290
Loc: Star Wars Galaxy
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Re: MS to LC, the worst way i know.. but why exactly? [Re: elasticaltiger]
#19771501 - 03/31/14 12:52 AM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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Well.. that was the kind of answer that i was looking for..
Exactly how an aqueous medium multiply contamination's?
How good will be if we could suck an agar wedge with a syringe, lol.
Edited by Mr. Alien (03/31/14 12:55 AM)
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elasticaltiger
Like Tigers in Coitus




Registered: 06/24/13
Posts: 8,438
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Re: MS to LC, the worst way i know.. but why exactly? [Re: Mr. Alien] 1
#19771518 - 03/31/14 01:03 AM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mr. Alien said: Well.. that was the kind of answer that i was looking for..
Exactly how an aqueous medium multiply contamination's?
A spore syringe is made from sterile water.
An LC is made from a nutrient rich aqueous mixture.
In the spore syringe, any contamination will be struggling to find nutrients to divide and expand. Just as spores probably won't be germinating for a long long time in there (though it does happen from time to time)
In sterile water growth is slow.
Once you inject this mixture into a nutrient rich environment, both the spores AND the bacteria have ideal conditions to grow.
In the water of a spore syringe, neither the contamination or the spores had an ideal environment to propagate.
Once they have sugars to feed off then it's a giant free for all. The spores may win in the first week simply by the sheer number of inoculation points. This is why some jars made in the first week of an LC's life may be fine.
Over time though any contamination that was in the syringe will slowly begin to colonize every place in the medium that the mycelium HASN'T colonized.
At this point, when you you suck up your LC into a syringe, you're getting (roughly, this is just for perspective) equal parts mycelium culture and bacteria / mold.
When you inject spore solution into a grain jar where you have 100 spores to every bacterial cell (again I'm just throwing numbers into the wind for perspective) then the spores are going to have a higher chance of colonizing before the contamination.
If you inject a solution where there is basically 50/50 mycelium / bacteria / mold, the contamination will almost always outrun your culture.
-------------------- First time growing cakes? DON'T make a Shotgun Fruiting Chamber
The Shmuvbox. - The Old TC's Like it
Afraid to Start Growing From Your Own Prints? Drop it Like a Tiger! No Pouring. No Syringes. No Cutting. No flaming. No Contamination. No Bullshit.
"The best thing to do while your waiting is to start more stuff. I usually got so much happening that I have tossed projects simply because I didn't have time for them. -Pastywhite QFT
Pastywhite's Easy Agar Tek (PastyPlates)
Tiger Drop Video Demos By munchauzen
Van Gogh would’ve sold more than one painting if he’d put tigers in them.―Bill Watterson
EZEKIEL 23:20
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Mr. Alien
I will abduct andprobe your anus



Registered: 01/14/14
Posts: 6,290
Loc: Star Wars Galaxy
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Re: MS to LC, the worst way i know.. but why exactly? [Re: elasticaltiger]
#19771555 - 03/31/14 01:35 AM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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now i understand.
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 62,905
Loc: Van Isle
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Re: MS to LC, the worst way i know.. but why exactly? [Re: Mr. Alien]
#19771559 - 03/31/14 01:39 AM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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-------------------- It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn
I'm tired do me a favor
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Saint
Pope



Registered: 12/05/13
Posts: 76
Last seen: 5 years, 5 months
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Re: MS to LC, the worst way i know.. but why exactly? [Re: cronicr]
#19771585 - 03/31/14 01:59 AM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
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Right thats is my point too. IF you have more contam's then real spore your going to lose. and remember the higher the temp the faster cottam's grow. best to transfer your dish to a new dish as soon as you see growth and keep going till you have the best dish posable. maybe a month or 2 but then make a LC from a clean agar dish and your going to be over run with a clean grow.. Spore's are very ruff to do if you unsure about where they came from...Never heat your dish's
Was going to say I use potato starch and agar to make my dishes. at times i use the starch to make my LC too you can do many things with just starch.
Edited by Saint (03/31/14 02:10 AM)
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