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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Kratom withdrawal - my experience * 2
    #19768824 - 03/30/14 04:02 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Just thought I should share - I have been using ten to fifteen teaspoons Of kratom a day every day for longer than six months.

I quit cold turkey and had zero withdrawals .

I feel good. No noticeable withdrawal whatsoever.

If 1 Is miserable and ten is euphoric I feel about a seven.

I am taking many supplements such as adrafinil, citicoline, piracetam, ginseng, ashwagandha and rhodiolla .

It is possible that these supplements are helping prevent withdrawal.

I will post updates each day without Kratom and report any withdrawal that might occur.

Just wanted to share and thank the mother earth for this amazing euphoric plant medicine and it's amazing lack
Of withdrawal effects even at very heavy and prolonged use.

:heart: :kratom: :heart:

I am quitting for a month then I will start using 2-3 days a week.


:peace:


Edited by Moonshoe (03/30/14 04:21 PM)


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InvisibleJvells
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Re: Kratom withdrawal - my experience [Re: Moonshoe]
    #19768863 - 03/30/14 04:09 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

how long you been clean?


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: Kratom withdrawal - my experience [Re: Jvells]
    #19768927 - 03/30/14 04:22 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Today is day 1 with no Kratom , 3:30 pm. Normally I take my first
Dose first thing in the morning. Will update each day.


--------------------


Everything I post is fiction.


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Offlineplektheplek
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Re: Kratom withdrawal - my experience [Re: Moonshoe]
    #19768939 - 03/30/14 04:25 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

That's awesome that those supplements may be helping with the potential withdrawl. I used to take Ginkgo Biloba now I just take a men's multivitamin


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: Kratom withdrawal - my experience [Re: plektheplek]
    #19769030 - 03/30/14 04:46 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

I encourage supplementation but advise against multivitamins


--------------------


Everything I post is fiction.


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Invisiblememes
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Re: Kratom withdrawal - my experience [Re: Moonshoe]
    #19769055 - 03/30/14 04:49 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

it's not the withdrawal i think you'll have trouble with, it's the breaking of your habit.  daily use for 6mo is an ingrained routine.  sure, you're doing great today (good job, by the way) - but are you going to be able to break routine so easily?

i'm a creature of habit, could never do it.








good luck!


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InvisibleCosmicJokeM
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Re: Kratom withdrawal - my experience [Re: Moonshoe]
    #19769064 - 03/30/14 04:51 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

If I use Kratom for two days or so it just quits working all together regardless of how much I take, 6g on day 1 would do more for me than 25g on day three....  Then I need about two to three weeks to really reset my tolerance.  It's peculiar, as other people seem to be able to get something out of it on a more routine basis.


--------------------
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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: Kratom withdrawal - my experience [Re: CosmicJoke]
    #19769231 - 03/30/14 05:32 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

It continues to benefit me with daily use but less and less each day until it levels off at a nice feeling but if I do it once a week I feel real amazing euphoria.


--------------------


Everything I post is fiction.


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InvisibleJvells
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Re: Kratom withdrawal - my experience [Re: Moonshoe]
    #19769612 - 03/30/14 06:48 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Moonshoe said:
I encourage supplementation but advise against multivitamins




why against a multi?


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Invisiblemoonrockmushy
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Re: Kratom withdrawal - my experience [Re: Moonshoe]
    #19769623 - 03/30/14 06:50 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Moonshoe said:
Today is day 1 with no Kratom , 3:30 pm. Normally I take my first
Dose first thing in the morning. Will update each day.




Well that is not very long.  I think there are some alkaloids in Kratom that have fairly long halflife.

Its not supposed to be that bad.  Effects different people differently of course but I've heard alot of people say the severity of withdrawal is comparable to a caffiene addiction.


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InvisibleLegend
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Re: Kratom withdrawal - my experience [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #19769645 - 03/30/14 06:54 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

It's more comparable to a cannabis addiction, IME.


--------------------
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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: Kratom withdrawal - my experience [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #19769662 - 03/30/14 06:56 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Well I will update every day but day one so far so good , I actually think day 1 and 2 will be the worst and it
Will get better from 48
Hours on,
And first 24 is nothing sort of like mild fatigue but some caffeine compensates nicely.


--------------------


Everything I post is fiction.


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: Kratom withdrawal - my experience [Re: Legend]
    #19770007 - 03/30/14 08:29 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Legend said:
It's more comparable to a cannabis addiction, IME.




I would agree, in other words virtually no physical addiction or withdrawal, just a desire
To use because of the sense of enjoyment.

24+ hours since last Kratom dose and zero withdrawals. Very minor fatigue but really it's just living life without the warm blanket of
Kratom.


--------------------


Everything I post is fiction.


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InvisibleBiodiversity
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Re: Kratom withdrawal - my experience [Re: Moonshoe]
    #19770133 - 03/30/14 09:03 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

For me I think it's less addictive than cannabis. I haven't been using kratom for too long so I can't really say for sure.

With cannabis I get really high and when I become accustomed to getting that high when consuming everyday, things can become difficult when taking a leave of absence from it. With kratom its more of a mellow relaxation with a splash of euphoria. Kratom also allows me to dream and doesn't seem to effect my sleeping as heavily as cannabis does when I go for a tolerance break. Also I think I get a cloudy consciousness especially when using cannabis again after a long absence, with kratom, so far not so much.


Kratom seems a lot more school friendly, while cannabis now after not using it as much is more like a full blown psychedelic experience. It will be interesting to see in the summer time how these two substances meld together in light doses.


--------------------




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Invisibleopenmind
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Re: Kratom withdrawal - my experience [Re: Moonshoe] * 1
    #19770187 - 03/30/14 09:14 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

10 to 15 teaspoons of kratom a day? You go through a few ounces every day?....I consider that to be a rather hefty amount of kratom for daily use, especially for 6 months. Amounts like that would have me puking, shakey, and dizzy.


Interesting to hear you're not experiencing much withdrawal from taking amounts like that daily. 2 to 3 teaspoons a day is a sufficient amount for my self, keeps me going all day. My length of use is usually a month or two of taking it daily, then a break for a week or so.

The first few times I went on a break from the leaf after a long period of daily use I was expecting there to be a few shitty days ahead, but I was surprised to find the "withdrawal" to be virtually non-existent. When I stop, I will sometimes feel lethargic during the day and have trouble getting to sleep at night, and feel kinda dull...part of that is likely mild withdrawal, but I think it's mostly just returning to how I feel with out the leaf :shrug: .



I don't really have any cravings for kratom, though, when I don't have it...it just "sounds nice" . And this is coming from someone that absolutely loves opiates (never been hooked though) .



...and I just ran out of kratom today as well :thumbdown: .





-OM


.


--------------------


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InvisibleLegend
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Re: Kratom withdrawal - my experience [Re: openmind]
    #19770196 - 03/30/14 09:16 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

I ran out today as well. Luckily i have a nice sampler pack coming in this week.


--------------------
No sympathy for the devil, keep that in mind.
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]Buy the ticket, take the ride. [/url]
Are you lost?


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Invisiblemoonrockmushy
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Re: Kratom withdrawal - my experience [Re: Moonshoe]
    #19770243 - 03/30/14 09:27 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

I'm interested to see how you do.

So no excessive yawning?

No Chills?

No runny nose or bum?

Is your appetite and desire for your usual activities diminished at all?


--------------------


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: Kratom withdrawal - my experience [Re: openmind]
    #19770520 - 03/30/14 10:37 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Yes I was using 10-15 tsp a day eventually very excessive to be sure .

That's why it's all the more impressive that I have no withdrawal with cold turkey.


It has now been one full day without any Kratom and I feel fine.

Slight fatigue, life just feels a bit tougher, but that's not wothdrawal it's just the absence of the boost the Kratom was giving me. Honestly the withdrawals have been nothing.
Like maybe equivalent to getting an hour less sleep than usual or going without your morning cup of coffee.

Instead of feeling amazing like I did with Kratom I feel good-fine like a
Normal non Kratom user. I certainly don't feel bad or like I'm in withdrawal.

On a scale of 1-10 with 10
Being horrific opiate withdrawal and 1 being slightly crappy I would rate yhis "withdrawal" a .5.

It's basically nothing. I just lack the energy and euphoria Kratom gives me but not mix of a rebound or backlash at all.


It's basically a non existent withdrawal even at heavy prolonged use like I was doing.
It's just a return to how you feel without the benefit of Kratom which sucks by comparison but it's basically just normal life.

No nausea, no anxiety, no depression, no vomiting again- so far one day workout Kratom witbdrawal = non-existent.


--------------------


Everything I post is fiction.


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OfflineNoble
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Re: Kratom withdrawal - my experience [Re: Moonshoe]
    #19771070 - 03/31/14 12:22 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

I don't understand how people have NO WD from K, I came off a 8 month binge of 10 grams 4-5 X a day and had some pretty bad WD. I mean it wasn't anywhere as bad as H or oxys but I still felt like shit and my stomach was all fucked up for about 4 days. The worst part of it for me was the restless legs AND arms, the restless arms stuff almost made me go insane:crazy2:


--------------------
The more you know, the less you need.
May as well be here we are as where we are.


                               
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Offlineclaraclairvoyant
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Re: Kratom withdrawal - my experience [Re: openmind]
    #19771101 - 03/31/14 12:29 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

openmind said:
10 to 15 teaspoons of kratom a day? You go through a few ounces every day?....I consider that to be a rather hefty amount of kratom for daily use, especially for 6 months. Amounts like that would have me puking, shakey, and dizzy.

.



doesnt 1 teaspoon equal roughly 2 grams? correct me if i'm wrong my memory is a lil hazy right now. he's not doing a few ounces every day.


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OfflineDrMambo
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Re: Kratom withdrawal - my experience [Re: Moonshoe]
    #19771187 - 03/31/14 12:45 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Coming off of 30-45 grams daily for three plus months I experienced essentially no withdrawals. I had a restless night or two, but I commonly sleep like crap, so I couldn't really blame the kratom too much.

Hope things continue well for you.


--------------------


"Yeah, he's a professor...... OF BEING A DOG!"


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Offlinelot_justice
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Re: Kratom withdrawal - my experience [Re: DrMambo]
    #19771354 - 03/31/14 01:34 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

thank you for sharing!


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Invisibleopenmind
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Re: Kratom withdrawal - my experience [Re: claraclairvoyant]
    #19771488 - 03/31/14 02:37 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Moonshoe said:
Yes I was using 10-15 tsp a day eventually very excessive to be sure .

That's why it's all the more impressive that I have no withdrawal with cold turkey...




It is...That's what's up though :yesnod: .

Like someone else mentioned, some of the alkaloids in kratom do have a relatively long half life. There's also corynantheidine in kratom which is a μ-opioid antagonist, as well as rhynchophylline which is an nmda agonist....both of those alkaloids are in rather small concentrations in the leaf and I'm not sure how significant of an influence they might have on the effects, or withdrawal...but it's interesting to note.



Quote:

....I am taking many supplements such as adrafinil, citicoline, piracetam, ginseng, ashwagandha and rhodiolla .

It is possible that these supplements are helping prevent withdrawal....




I'm sure that's playing a role in that. Some green tea, quality ginseng, and some mucuna pruriens and/or rhodiolla would lift me up quite nicely the days I'd decide not to take kratom. I've been out of my herbal, botanical, and super food goodies for a while now though, don't have the money for it...I really need to get back on that hype, all that stuff had me feeling like sunshine dipped in honey....really really good.







Quote:

claraclairvoyant said:
doesnt 1 teaspoon equal roughly 2 grams? correct me if i'm wrong my memory is a lil hazy right now. he's not doing a few ounces every day.




Does it?...I was under the impression a level teaspoon was 3 to 4 grams, depending on how coarse or fine it was milled. I could be wrong though, I honestly have never straight up weighed the amounts I take. If that's the case though, then I'm actually taking even less than I assumed I was.






-OM

.


--------------------


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Offlinetripp23
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Re: Kratom withdrawal - my experience [Re: openmind]
    #19771505 - 03/31/14 02:55 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

wow and I thought I was bad lol 15 teaspoons a day.. that's about 30ish grams in one sitting.  thats not too bad though, a lot have their tolerance a lot higher.

I normally take 5 teaspoons a day.  I limit myself to 5 a day and just occasionally redose.  Seems to work really well.  I've been doing it for a long time too.  Great medicine :thumbup:  I've even quit cold turkey for a year once in between just to see if I could do it.  No withdrawls what so ever.  I fucking :heart: kratom.  Seriously a god send in my life.


--------------------


PLEASE DONATE TO THE AMERICAN KRATOM ASSOCIATION TO KICK THE DEA'S ASS!!!!

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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: Kratom withdrawal - my experience [Re: tripp23] * 2
    #19771918 - 03/31/14 07:48 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Ok guys so heres the situation. I made it through a day with no withdrawals or whatever. However at night time I spiralled into a black depression. No physical withdrawal but just like horrible mental loops about being worthless, suicidal, a fuck up, an addict, etc. Total insomnia. I couldnt sleep even with a few mg of etizolam. It was really miserable.

No aches and pains, no stomach upsets, no restless arms or legs, just insomnia.

The problem was partly I had a hard turn around at work, I worked until 11pm then worked again at 8am.

I wasn't able to sleep and spent the night talking to my wife in this horrible black depressed mood.

We talked it out and realized the problem for me is caffeine. If I drink one cup of coffee, one small cup of coffee, at like 5 pm, I WILL NOT SLEEP all night even with 4mg of etizolam in me. Its absolutely insane how bad insomnia I get from small amounts of caffeine.

SO I absolutely will never drink coffee again. Never.

I also realized my real problem is not kratom but etizolam. I need to taper off etizolam quickly and get off it for good. Unlike kratom etizolam is a serious addiction.

Kratom is a miracle cure for my depression. So my wife said "take your kratom but just take less of it, drink zero coffee, and taper off etizolam quickly and for good"

So I agreed. This morning I took 3 tsp kratom which weighed out to about 5.5 grams.

This night was an absolute mess. Havent had such a horrible night ... ever.

My wife insisted on calling in sick for me because I did not sleep a minuite and she didn't want me going to work on no sleep.

So I cant say kratom caused no withdrawals. I have no experience with "real" opiates so I cant compare but I had no stomach pains, no aches or chills, none of that, but a black depression came on me at night time along with insomnia.

I am now going to resume daily kratom dosing until such time as I get off etizolam, and reduce my kratom doses.

I am not happy right now, feel like a right mess.

Just thought I should be honest about this.

By the way the 15 tsp a day is in three seperate doses of 5 tsp in the morning, 5 in the afternoon and 5 in the evening.

Kratom has been a god send in my life. It CURES the depression that runs in my family and has saved me from having to go on SSRI antidepressants.

I am currently taking SAMe and hoping when it builds up to effect I wont need kratom as much.

For now I am just going to use kratom because it allows me to function so well and without it life basically sucks by comparison.

My real goal now is to taper off etizolam and avoid caffeine like the plague.

Good luck to you all.


--------------------


Everything I post is fiction.


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: Kratom withdrawal - my experience [Re: Moonshoe]
    #19771966 - 03/31/14 08:26 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

I feel like I should share: My mother suffered intense depression her entire life. Genetically that was passed down to me and my brother. My brother has had crippling depression his entire life as well. It ruined his life. His wife recently left him because she couldn't tolerate his depression anymore.

I have the same tendency. However, I discovered daily intense exercise, daily meditation, and supplements, and the miracle supplement for me has been kratom.

WIth kratom I have been happy, social, outgoing, energetic, productive, and really enjoy my life. I am not only not depressed, I feel GREAT one hundred percent of the time!

Because I have had kratom I have never had to go on SSRI antidepressants which I really dont trust or believe in.

The only other thing that works as well as kratom is SAMe , S adenosyl Methionine, which once you take it daily for a few weeks is AMAZING for depression and also puts you in a consistently euphoric mood.

Now, I tested it and found out even on high doses kratom does not cause physical withdrawal for me.

However, when I don't take it I revert to my depressive tendencies and get really down on myself and miserable. Not physically like a heroin withdrawal, but I guess I am a depressed person and kratom is my medication and when I went off it the depression came back.

So because kratom is safe, legal, natural and EFFECTIVE I am going to continue to use it so I can enjoy quality of life.

However, I am going to reduce my dosage greatly! Maybe 3 tsp total a day, either all at once or 1 tsp three times a day.

I actually just ordered 600 grams total of ten different varieties. ITs just not worth it. WIth kratom I have been super succesful in life, it enhances my workouts, it makes me more confident, assertive and social, it has even helped me get a promotion at work.

I am not comfortable being an addict but I consider it my medication and I cant force my wife to live with a depressed person. She loves me when I am not depressed and I dont want to bring her down. If kratom can help me be a happier, more functional person and a better husband then I am not going to quit.

I am going to get off etizolam and quit coffee and maybe even weed but not Kratom, at least not until my SAMe builds up to full effect.

I am embarressed about last night and how depressed I got , like suicidal. A few teaspoons of kratom and I feel great again.

So again for me, no physical withdrawals, but a powerful mental withdrawal. There were other factors such as caffeine and having a wierd shift where I worked late and then early.

I still managed to go 24 hours without using and did not feel terrible. My mistake was trying to use caffeine and to substitute. Caffeine just does not agree with me.

So I am going to try and take more break days and not drink coffee on those days.

I am addicted to kratom and etizolam and I am going to focus first on quitting etizolam, then on tapering down and off kratom and eventually using it only twice a week.

Thanks for listening to my story. Sorry for being so long winded.


--------------------


Everything I post is fiction.


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OfflineTheNarrator
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Re: Kratom withdrawal - my experience [Re: Moonshoe]
    #19771984 - 03/31/14 08:48 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

What exactly is kratom and what are the effects?


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: Kratom withdrawal - my experience [Re: TheNarrator]
    #19772058 - 03/31/14 09:35 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

kratom is the leaf of a tree that grows in south east asia. The leaf is eaten. The effects are euphoria, anti-depressant effects, relief of anxiety, increase in physical and mental energy and stamina, happiness, pain relief and well-being. It is also extremely helpful for people who are addicted to hard opiates (heroin, oxycontin etc) who can use kratom to get off those drugs.


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InvisibleJvells
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Re: Kratom withdrawal - my experience [Re: Moonshoe]
    #19773615 - 03/31/14 05:22 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

I still want an answer for why you said you're against multivitamins lol, im curious as to what you have to say


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InvisibleLegend
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Re: Kratom withdrawal - my experience [Re: Jvells]
    #19773727 - 03/31/14 05:48 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

It's more efficient to get your vitamins from food, with multivitamins you're likely to piss it all out. Not to mention you body wants natural vitamins, not synthetic.


--------------------
No sympathy for the devil, keep that in mind.
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Are you lost?


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Re: Kratom withdrawal - my experience [Re: Legend]
    #19774263 - 03/31/14 08:13 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

im more curious about what the real difference between having food be the vitamin source vs the multi. Like if we only absorb a small amount then what the hell might as well take it anyways to make sure we try and get the full spectrum no? I guess what I'm getting at is why advice against it?


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OfflineViveka
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Re: Kratom withdrawal - my experience [Re: Moonshoe]
    #19776577 - 04/01/14 03:09 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

I've read multiple times that kratom withdrawal doesn't kick in until 24 hours after your last dose. Your experience seems to corroborate this.

Have you tested any strategies for mitigating tolerance as much as possible so you can keep your doses lower? Of course you can never reverse tolerance or really reduce it that much without cessation but I've read a good bit about what other people try and have been using some of these strategies.

Magnesium is supposed to help diminish tolerance when taken regularly. It seems to be pretty popular for this purpose for substances other than kratom as well. It's also an NMDA antagonist and seems to contribute slightly to the kratom dose. The best part about using magnesium in a tolerance mitigation strategy is that it's a common deficiency, so you have the benefit of avoiding that as well if you're taking it regularly. You want a good form of it though like threonate or chelated forms; or at least malate or glycinate which is preferable to citrate. Citrate and cheaper forms of Mg are also supposed to give you the runs in higher doses whereas I've not had that problem with the chelated form I'm using.

I've also tried the old tonic(quinine) and grapefruit route, the effectiveness of which I would not rule out, taken about a half an hour before dosing. Starfruit is supposed to be even better. Though alkaloids are supposed to be better absorbed in an alkaline environment so sometimes I'll eat a couple tums before I swallow my kratom.

I also swallow my kratom powder(and drink most of it before the kratom dose) with a tea that has Valerian which induces CYP2D6(anecdotally important for kratom to work), licorice and cinnamon which inhibit CYP3A4(supposedly useful for potentiation), cats claw which is often used to mitigate tolerance, and kava for a little extra relaxation and ginger to keep any trace of nausea away. Of course I can't say it's all effective but I figure it's worth it and the tea is delicious.

Apparently circumin is supposed to be effective but from what I've read it extends the experience at the expense of slightly diminished effects.

Turmeric + ginger/black pepper is one I mean to try and you can't eat enough turmeric; it's supposedly a great tonic, especially for males.

I've read that 20mg of kanna taken half an hour before kratom greatly potentiates and people can cut their doses in half. I've yet to try that one either.

DXM seems to potentiate, and is often used to combat tolerance, though in my experience even a very small dose of dxm brings out the dissociative side of kratom.

I've also swallowed cayenne mixed in water a little bit before dosing which is supposed to increase absorption. It increases the internal warmth that kratom gives and may be effective but I'm not sure it's worth the fire in your anus the next day.

Anybody else got any?


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Re: Kratom withdrawal - my experience [Re: Viveka]
    #19777789 - 04/01/14 01:03 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Thanks for the great info. For now I am keeping a journal where I record my doses and trying to reduce the size of my doses. I take magnesium with my kratom and have also used turmeric. I will take some turmeric today before my next dose.

I am just going to take slightly smaller doses each day until I am only taking one teaspoon three times a day.


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Re: Kratom withdrawal - my experience [Re: Moonshoe]
    #19817285 - 04/09/14 10:28 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

I just wanted to update this post to share that In my experience taking S adenosyl Methionine (1600 mg a day) with B 100 vitamin complex and Adrafinil completely cures any kratom withdrawal.

So if anyone out there is having a hard time quitting kratom try taking SAMe with B vitamins and adrafinil first thing in the morning in my opinion it totally eliminates any kratom withdrawal symptoms.


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Re: Kratom withdrawal - my experience [Re: Moonshoe]
    #19824503 - 04/10/14 06:48 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Are you sure its those that are getting rid of it or did you just not have any..?


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Re: Kratom withdrawal - my experience [Re: Jvells]
    #19824522 - 04/10/14 06:51 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

15 teaspoons?

30 grams?

I had no idea people did those kinds of doses. I've been using 1 teaspoon sometimes for chronic headaches and wondering about it's long term effects...but it sounds like lots of people are doing orders of magnitude more, so I guess that's encouraging.


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Re: Kratom withdrawal - my experience [Re: Xingu]
    #19824677 - 04/10/14 07:27 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

i was taking a shitload of kratom in 5-6 day binges 2 weeks out of the month all semester and i never have any W/D symptoms from it. i stopped though because it was giving me pretty bad acne and just generally making me irritable and anti-social


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Re: Kratom withdrawal - my experience [Re: Jvells]
    #19824794 - 04/10/14 07:50 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Jvells said:
Are you sure its those that are getting rid of it or did you just not have any..?




Yeah it may be that there just want any for sure.

But kratom has an energizing and an anti depressant effect, and SAMe is an antidepressant and Adrafinil is energizing so I guess it like replaces kratom well.


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Re: Kratom withdrawal - my experience [Re: Moonshoe]
    #19825955 - 04/10/14 11:53 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Interesting.

Pretty incredible to hear it seems to be relatively common to have a lack of physical WD from Kratom at high doses for a pretty long period of time.

But someone above said it kicks in after 24hrs so I wonder if u would have experienced some after like 2-3 days.


Im glad it is a potent and effective antidepressant for you moonshoe. Ive always really enjoyed reading your posts. You sound like a very aware individual and Im confident that you will be able to ween off etiz and lower kratom if that is what you truly want to do.


Im also curious how that camping/canoe trip went that you posted a while back about:grin:


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Re: Kratom withdrawal - my experience [Re: weshroom]
    #19827280 - 04/11/14 10:20 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Thank you for your kind words !

I am going to get off etizolam in the next three days. I expect some insomnia and no sleep for a few days and some muscle twitches but hopefully nothing more than that.

I may also cold
Turkey off Kratom for a week in a few days when I go to the states.


That should reset my tolerance nicely.

The canoe trip is still upcoming but I have decided to play it safe and enjoy the trip without any extra shenanigans
:wink:


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Re: Kratom withdrawal - my experience [Re: Moonshoe]
    #19827318 - 04/11/14 10:33 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Encouraging to hear.

I've been eating only maybe 2 teaspoons per day for a month or so. Maybe less sometimes, rarely more. That's plenty for me.

I can't imagine eating those doses. I would be vomiting for sure.

I have some concern about addiction and withdrawal. I've taken a day off here and there but I enjoy the stuff so damn much, and it feels so benign, I find myself wanting to take it all the time.

I plan on doing a week long break like this to make sure I'm not in deeper than I think. Only problem is, I don't really want to. Time to test my will power.


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Re: Kratom withdrawal - my experience [Re: drr]
    #19827348 - 04/11/14 10:42 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

heheheheh me too man, me too. Shit's beautifulllll and pretty damn clean on the body compared to oxy, dope, etc.


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Re: Kratom withdrawal - my experience [Re: Moonshoe]
    #19828073 - 04/11/14 02:03 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Moonshoe said:
Thank you for your kind words !

I am going to get off etizolam in the next three days. I expect some insomnia and no sleep for a few days and some muscle twitches but hopefully nothing more than that.

I may also cold
Turkey off Kratom for a week in a few days when I go to the states.


That should reset my tolerance nicely.

The canoe trip is still upcoming but I have decided to play it safe and enjoy the trip without any extra shenanigans
:wink:




What are headed to the states for?


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Re: Kratom withdrawal - my experience [Re: weshroom]
    #19829161 - 04/11/14 06:21 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

My wife is presenting her research at a world summit  and I will be there to help / facilitate the workshop.

We will also be doing some camping in the old growth forests and hiking.


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Re: Kratom withdrawal - my experience [Re: Moonshoe]
    #19831937 - 04/12/14 11:22 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Awesome, sounds like a good trip.


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Re: Kratom withdrawal - my experience [Re: weshroom]
    #19831971 - 04/12/14 11:37 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

didn't read whole thread. 

OP you're naive.  48 hours and you finally started to get sick (which is TOTALLY normal.)  then you blame it on caffeine and etiz, both of which are considerably less addictive.

but for real though, give it till day 4 and then tell me you're not experiencing withdrawals.

If you want to do kratom once or twice a week that's totally fine, but every day and at unnecessarily high doses and you will have withdrawal.  Don't protect an addiction, it's not doing you any good.


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Re: Kratom withdrawal - my experience [Re: collinZzZz]
    #19831985 - 04/12/14 11:44 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

all this kratom lauding pisses me off.

It's an OPIATE.  It's an awesome opiate.  Probably my favorite and I've done oxymorphone, heroin and morphine.  It is physically addictive.

it's an awesome plant drug but it's not a fucking health drink.


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Re: Kratom withdrawal - my experience [Re: collinZzZz]
    #19832143 - 04/12/14 12:43 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

no, it is not an opiate.


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Re: Kratom withdrawal - my experience [Re: claraclairvoyant]
    #19832265 - 04/12/14 01:23 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Opioid.  It hit's that receptor.  Subjectively there's no difference.

I Used kratom to maintain just like you would tabs or oxy.

It hurts to come off of.  Have you ever been habituated to it??


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Re: Kratom withdrawal - my experience [Re: collinZzZz]
    #19832290 - 04/12/14 01:30 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

I got to the point where I was taking 45-60 grams 5 out of 7 days of the week and then stopped abruptly. i was moody for a week or so but it's nothing like what i've heard people describe coming off oxy/heroin as being like

i do understand that they hit the same receptors and fully realize that the effects are comparable though. that's why i took it


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Re: Kratom withdrawal - my experience [Re: morrowasted]
    #19832311 - 04/12/14 01:36 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

I really like your sig picture morrow:smile:


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Re: Kratom withdrawal - my experience [Re: weshroom]
    #19832323 - 04/12/14 01:39 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

thank you kind sir


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Re: Kratom withdrawal - my experience [Re: Moonshoe]
    #19832374 - 04/12/14 01:51 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

I know you're only on day one, but I agree that krat w/d is very minimal. I've taken it just like you (decent amounts daily for months), quit cold turkey, and the worst I experienced was a couple restless nights. That plant is a true blessing.

Some people complain of bad w/d from it though. They're either significantly more sensitive or the krat did something to their biochemistry. My perspective could be screwed up though; I've been addicted to most opiates and benzos, and have experienced near fatal withdrawals. So maybe I do get krat w/d, but it doesn't effect me.

Good luck man!


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Re: Kratom withdrawal - my experience [Re: Burke Dennings]
    #19832393 - 04/12/14 01:54 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

To the guy insisting that kratom is an opiate/opioid and that it's much more addictive than caffeine and etizolam: LOL! Do some research.


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Re: Kratom withdrawal - my experience [Re: Burke Dennings]
    #19832569 - 04/12/14 02:32 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Yeah etizolam is a much more serious addiction than Kratom dude much more.

Anyways I will be cold turkey off
Kratom
For a full week In two days so I will find out how bad the withdrawal is and post here.

I'm honestly not too worried.


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Re: Kratom withdrawal - my experience [Re: collinZzZz]
    #19832587 - 04/12/14 02:35 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

collinZzZz said:
didn't read whole thread. 

OP you're naive.  48 hours and you finally started to get sick (which is TOTALLY normal.)  then you blame it on caffeine and etiz, both of which are considerably less addictive.

but for real though, give it till day 4 and then tell me you're not experiencing withdrawals.

If you want to do kratom once or twice a week that's totally fine, but every day and at unnecessarily high doses and you will have withdrawal.  Don't protect an addiction, it's not doing you any good.



Quote:

collinZzZz said:
all this kratom lauding pisses me off.

It's an OPIATE.  It's an awesome opiate.  Probably my favorite and I've done oxymorphone, heroin and morphine.  It is physically addictive.

it's an awesome plant drug but it's not a fucking health drink.




Extremely naive statements. While it touches on some opioid receptors it doesn't come even close to the opiate embrace of actual opiates. Caffeine is ~ the same level of addictiveness as kratom in my opinion depending on how heavy each habit is. Etiz is definitely not considerably less addictive... Do you know what etizolam is? Also, don't think he's exactly defending an addiction here, look at the thread title please.


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Re: Kratom withdrawal - my experience [Re: Snotfish]
    #19832920 - 04/12/14 03:49 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

:whathesaid:

:hug:


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Re: Kratom withdrawal - my experience [Re: Moonshoe]
    #19847674 - 04/15/14 10:50 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

I used kratom almost daily 3-4 gram dose in the morning for about 6 months until i ran out... cant import anymore so i quit cold turkeys...

had ZERO withdrawals.

i wish i had some kratom because it is just so great


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Re: Kratom withdrawal - my experience [Re: AIRDOG]
    #19849502 - 04/15/14 06:01 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

That's a really low dose. I do 3-5 gram doses (sometimes higher) 5+ times per day. I can tell you, if you run off this stuff, you WILL have withdrawals.


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Re: Kratom withdrawal - my experience [Re: Snotfish]
    #19849518 - 04/15/14 06:04 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

It's really subjective man. I've taken 20+ g doses every day for months, and the worst w/d effect I had was some sleepless nights. No biggie.


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Re: Kratom withdrawal - my experience [Re: Burke Dennings] * 1
    #19849575 - 04/15/14 06:16 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

I'm not trying to say it's awful, nothing like an actual WD from booze/opiates/benzos, but it still exists if you are on a regime. I love this herb and full respect it but it gets slightly frustrating by the amount of people I hear dismiss any weirdness caused by a W/D and label the stuff not physically addictive.

On top of that, I feel like the majority of the addictiveness of this stuff is mostly mental. Just don't want newcomers diving in expecting to be able to hit it hard with no consequences once they quit.


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Re: Kratom withdrawal - my experience [Re: Snotfish]
    #19850726 - 04/15/14 09:38 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Snotfish said:
That's a really low dose. I do 3-5 gram doses (sometimes higher) 5+ times per day. I can tell you, if you run off this stuff, you WILL have withdrawals.




I find this to be very true, although kratom seems to vary from person to person in its strength. I definitely get sick and weak coming of 12g 3 to 4 times a day doses (for months though)


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Re: Kratom withdrawal - my experience [Re: Panaeolus92]
    #19850776 - 04/15/14 09:51 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Panaeolus92 said:
Quote:

Snotfish said:
That's a really low dose. I do 3-5 gram doses (sometimes higher) 5+ times per day. I can tell you, if you run off this stuff, you WILL have withdrawals.




I find this to be very true, although kratom seems to vary from person to person in its strength. I definitely get sick and weak coming of 12g 3 to 4 times a day doses (for months though)



also the psychological addiction to opioids is pretty fucking strong.  Not saying everyone will experience this but I have been on and off opiates for 5 years now.  Frankly if i'm honest it started with ordering kratom.  I had a series of medical problems and all of a sudden true opiates were available (hydrocodone).  Then came oxymorphone then back to kratom. then kicked, then back to morphine and tramadol, the kicked, then back to Hydro, then subutex, then kicked again, back to kratom again then tabs were cheaper so back to hydro. 

All i'm saying is that going for that OOOH so GOOD feeling everytime you get the chance can sneak up on you.  A pattern of addiction starts.

For real tho also.  You guys that don't have w/d from kratom are lucky i guess.  Everytime i quit anything that fucks with my mu opioid receptors now i get acute withdrawal.

I'm 27 and since i was 22 i've gone through withdrawal 4 times.  The last time being the absolute worst and longest lasting and it was from switching from tabs and kratom to suboxone then tapering down.

don't fool your selves.


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Re: Kratom withdrawal - my experience [Re: collinZzZz]
    #19850906 - 04/15/14 10:26 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

I've gone months eating over an Oz a day and have never had withdrawal from it.


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Re: Kratom withdrawal - my experience [Re: deladude]
    #19850974 - 04/15/14 10:46 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

i call bullshit.


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Re: Kratom withdrawal - my experience [Re: collinZzZz]
    #19851076 - 04/15/14 11:10 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Im on a 3 month binge boutta quit and take rhodiola root with my fish oil and good meals throughout the day, chamomile, valerian, mj and kava for the comedown and exercise a good amount too. Im just worried about not getting sleep at night but if i do everything right hopefully i can get little to no w/d and that would be awesome because i just found the perfect drug to abuse occasionally as long as i learn good self control. Doesnt ravage your body and mentality like heroin does and thats why i fucking love it. Has this slight trippy side too its so so beautiful


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Re: Kratom withdrawal - my experience [Re: deladude]
    #19856221 - 04/16/14 09:48 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

all my fellow high dosers are starting to come out of the woodworks


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Re: Kratom withdrawal - my experience [Re: morrowasted]
    #19858337 - 04/17/14 04:03 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

In my experience so far after about five months of use, usually more days in a week than not, I still have found that over 10 grams of any type of kratom, especially if there's red vein in the mix, seems to be the point where unpleasant effects become significant. It could partly be because I usually don't hit 10 grams unless it's the third or fourth day in a row so by then bliss is largely diminished anyway.

How do you not get uncomfortably nauseous with these 20+ gram doses? I also suspect that much would make me really dizzy and wobbly feeling. Or maybe you hit a new plateu of opioid effect at those doses that ramps up the positive effects to compensate?


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Re: Kratom withdrawal - my experience [Re: Viveka]
    #19858428 - 04/17/14 04:42 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Promethzine helps with the nausea of high doses


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Re: Kratom withdrawal - my experience [Re: Legend]
    #19858465 - 04/17/14 05:07 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Wouldn't have expected that. I also wouldn't expect promethazine to be all that easy to acquire so I'm surprised it seems pretty popular these days.

Ginger works well for nausea. And cannabis of course.


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Re: Kratom withdrawal - my experience [Re: Viveka]
    #19858472 - 04/17/14 05:11 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Walk in clinics hand out promethazine syrup like candy. :shrug:


but yeah cannabis works, but it really potentiates the kratom a lot.

ginger does help too


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Re: Kratom withdrawal - my experience [Re: Legend]
    #19858501 - 04/17/14 05:31 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

I've been using kratom several times a day for almost a year now.  Typically I'm having fun if I'm taking around 10 grams a day, but I can survive on around 5.  However, even when I take as muh as I'd like I really don't get the same kind of lasting mood lift and motivation as I did early on.  I might only feel good for a couple hours before a bit of a crash.  I have to redose often to keep any good feeling going.

Several times I have taken a small amount, or even skipped a day.  It seemed pretty easy and I started to think that I wasn't at all addicted.  It was only when I tried to stay at reduced doses for several days that I began to understand that I needed the substance.  Trust me, if you haven't seen more than a day at a significantly reduced dose then you haven't really seen what withdrawl is like.  It takes a couple days for the withdrawal to really kick in.

When I cut back significantly I tend to have a bit of a sour stomach, and maybe some aches and pains.  That's not that big of a deal.  It's the restless feelings that really start to wear on me.  I get tired and I want to sit down, but I can't sit still, and at night it is very difficult to sleep with the restless legs.  Still though, the physical withdrawal doesn't seem horrible.  However on the mental side, kratom withdrawl can get a bit nasty.  I tend to get very anxious, depressed, paranoid, and just plain feel wierd, icky.  Then I start thinking of how great kratom is, how cheap it is, how I didn't really want to take a break.  Almost inevitably, eventually the mind games have me taking what seems like a big dose.  And like it always does as of late it only leaves me satisfied for a short time.  So then I have to decide, redose, and redose, and redose, or go back to reducing doses.

Probably kratom isn't nearly as addicting as many substances.  But because of it's price and availability it can still get ahold of you.  I mean how many opiate addicts dose several times a day for months and months on end without interuption?  With any other drug that would be one hell of a run, but with kratom that kind of usage pattern quickly becomes normal.  You can very quickly go from casual user to using like a hard core addict would use other drugs.  It's silly to think that using that way won't have any consequences.

It's also very easy to rationalize using, even when it isn't really working well any more.  And while it isn't the most horrible experience you can imagine, withdrawal can be bad enough that you cannot continue to live and work normally.  And so you fall into a trap where you want to quit, but you can't because you have to keep living life.  It's cheap, legal, not life destroying of anything, so you keep putting off dealing with the addiction.  Or at least that's how it's going with me.

Currently I recognize that kratom just isn't doing what it used to do for me.  I can no longer honestly say that it improves my life.  Yet I also cannot just cold turkey quit without upsetting my life.  So I'm in this sort of taper whereby I make some progress as situations permit, and try to hold steady when life gets demanding.  I'm sort of screwed because I'm stuck working 12hr midnights for the next two months which has me almost dangerously depressed.  I can't afford to add on the very real mental withdrawl of quitting kratom.  I just don't want to be that unhappy and uneasy.

Anyway, like I said, kratom withdrawal doesn't really seem to become interesting until at least a couple days in.  I'm interested in hearing how things go when you give the extended break a try.  And for anybody else considering kratom, it is a marvelous plant.  You can get a lot of benefit and enjoyment from it.  In fact you can get way more out, than you will have to pay back.  But make no mistake, if you use it continuously you probably will have some debt to pay eventually.


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Re: Kratom withdrawal - my experience [Re: AllGreyThumbs]
    #19859047 - 04/17/14 11:14 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Lately I've been doing some kava, 3.5-7g of kratom, cinnamon, and some ginger in a tea at night when I'm getting ready to read and wind down before bed. Certainly kills my insomnia, no nausea whatsover, just a nice moderate relaxation and transition to sleep. I often go days or even weeks off it without craving, and don't notice any withdrawal effects. I could see how it could be habit-forming, but I guess I've been incorporating a lot of lifestyle elements to temper my desire for any substance induced altered states.


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Re: Kratom withdrawal - my experience [Re: AllGreyThumbs]
    #19864621 - 04/18/14 11:54 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

AllGreyThumbs said:
I've been using kratom several times a day for almost a year now.  Typically I'm having fun if I'm taking around 10 grams a day, but I can survive on around 5.  However, even when I take as muh as I'd like I really don't get the same kind of lasting mood lift and motivation as I did early on.  I might only feel good for a couple hours before a bit of a crash.  I have to redose often to keep any good feeling going.

Several times I have taken a small amount, or even skipped a day.  It seemed pretty easy and I started to think that I wasn't at all addicted.  It was only when I tried to stay at reduced doses for several days that I began to understand that I needed the substance.  Trust me, if you haven't seen more than a day at a significantly reduced dose then you haven't really seen what withdrawl is like.  It takes a couple days for the withdrawal to really kick in.

When I cut back significantly I tend to have a bit of a sour stomach, and maybe some aches and pains.  That's not that big of a deal.  It's the restless feelings that really start to wear on me.  I get tired and I want to sit down, but I can't sit still, and at night it is very difficult to sleep with the restless legs.  Still though, the physical withdrawal doesn't seem horrible.  However on the mental side, kratom withdrawl can get a bit nasty.  I tend to get very anxious, depressed, paranoid, and just plain feel wierd, icky.  Then I start thinking of how great kratom is, how cheap it is, how I didn't really want to take a break.  Almost inevitably, eventually the mind games have me taking what seems like a big dose.  And like it always does as of late it only leaves me satisfied for a short time.  So then I have to decide, redose, and redose, and redose, or go back to reducing doses.

Probably kratom isn't nearly as addicting as many substances.  But because of it's price and availability it can still get ahold of you.  I mean how many opiate addicts dose several times a day for months and months on end without interuption?  With any other drug that would be one hell of a run, but with kratom that kind of usage pattern quickly becomes normal.  You can very quickly go from casual user to using like a hard core addict would use other drugs.  It's silly to think that using that way won't have any consequences.

It's also very easy to rationalize using, even when it isn't really working well any more.  And while it isn't the most horrible experience you can imagine, withdrawal can be bad enough that you cannot continue to live and work normally.  And so you fall into a trap where you want to quit, but you can't because you have to keep living life.  It's cheap, legal, not life destroying of anything, so you keep putting off dealing with the addiction.  Or at least that's how it's going with me.

Currently I recognize that kratom just isn't doing what it used to do for me.  I can no longer honestly say that it improves my life.  Yet I also cannot just cold turkey quit without upsetting my life.  So I'm in this sort of taper whereby I make some progress as situations permit, and try to hold steady when life gets demanding.  I'm sort of screwed because I'm stuck working 12hr midnights for the next two months which has me almost dangerously depressed.  I can't afford to add on the very real mental withdrawl of quitting kratom.  I just don't want to be that unhappy and uneasy.

Anyway, like I said, kratom withdrawal doesn't really seem to become interesting until at least a couple days in.  I'm interested in hearing how things go when you give the extended break a try.  And for anybody else considering kratom, it is a marvelous plant.  You can get a lot of benefit and enjoyment from it.  In fact you can get way more out, than you will have to pay back.  But make no mistake, if you use it continuously you probably will have some debt to pay eventually.



Great post; best in the thread. I read this yesterday morning and it encouraged me to actually stop. I tried kratom for the first time two months ago and I don't think I've missed a day since. Some days I'd try to take a day off but by the end of the day I'd always swallow at least a little bit. I've been using smaller doses than guys in this thread (<10 grams per day, usually closer to five, sometimes only one or two). So maybe that has something to do with my situation.

Anyway I read that yesterday morning as I was waking up from a groggy kratom sleep and it kinda scared me straight. I put all of my jars and baggies of kratom in a bag, stapled it shut twenty times, and put it in the closet. I know that if I go tearing apart that bag in the next few days I've got a real problem. But so far so good. Yesterday was no problem. So far today I feel fine. My plan is to stay high on good ol cannabis and try to forget about kratom for the next 4-5 days at least. Then use it more responsibly from that point on - a couple times per week.


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Re: Kratom withdrawal - my experience [Re: drr]
    #19866139 - 04/18/14 05:30 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Hey guys!

So as I said I was taking 3-5 tsp at a time 3-5 times a day every day for months. Like maybe 8 months or so.

I cold turkey quit five days ago and i can honestly say I had virtually no withdrawals .

Like honestly nothing . Mild runny nose and mild fatigue for 1-2 days which could easily have just been jet lag from flying. It was absolutely nothing to worry about.

I would now say with confidence that for me personally kratom is no more physically additive than cannibis- which is to say not at all.

Having cold turkey from high daily doses of both cannabis and kratom I can honestly day I had zero withdrawal from either .

Ymmv.

I now love this amazing plant more than ever and no for a fact I get no withdrawal from it even after long term heavy daily use.


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Re: Kratom withdrawal - my experience [Re: Moonshoe]
    #19866144 - 04/18/14 05:32 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Impressive, how is your mentality? I'm much more worried about psychological withdrawal than the physical stuff to be honest.


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Re: Kratom withdrawal - my experience [Re: Snotfish]
    #19866225 - 04/18/14 05:56 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Mentality is very good . Been hiking every day in the smoky mountain national park, camping and feeling great. No mental or physical withdrawal of any kind.

Kratom is AMAZEballs and now I know for a fact it causes me
Zero withdrawals I can enjoy it with no fear or worry.
I will have taken a full seven day break so my tolerance will be nicely reset.

I am going to try to keep my doses lower from now on just because.

But yeah fantastic to learn kratom really is not at all addictive for me.

Heavy daily doses every possible strain for the better part of a year- cold Turkey=
No problem whatsoever no different than cannabis zero withdrawal mental or physical.

Mild fatigue for 1-2 days and that is all.


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Re: Kratom withdrawal - my experience [Re: Moonshoe]
    #19866321 - 04/18/14 06:14 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Moonshoe said:
Mentality is very good . Been hiking every day in the smoky mountain national park, camping and feeling great. No mental or physical withdrawal of any kind.

Kratom is AMAZEballs and now I know for a fact it causes me
Zero withdrawals I can enjoy it with no fear or worry.
I will have taken a full seven day break so my tolerance will be nicely reset.

I am going to try to keep my doses lower from now on just because.

But yeah fantastic to learn kratom really is not at all addictive for me.

Heavy daily doses every possible strain for the better part of a year- cold Turkey=
No problem whatsoever no different than cannabis zero withdrawal mental or physical.

Mild fatigue for 1-2 days and that is all.




Well Moon, you are my hero of the day. This makes me much less worried about withdrawal. I'm gonna make sure it's nice outside and I can spend some time excersicing outdoors and this hopefully will turn out fine.


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Re: Kratom withdrawal - my experience [Re: Moonshoe]
    #19866393 - 04/18/14 06:32 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Moonshoe said:
I will have taken a full seven day break so my tolerance will be nicely reset.




Don't count on it. Even with much lighter use than what you've been doing consistently seven days isn't nearly enough time to "reset" tolerance. Make it a month or more then you might be getting there.


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Re: Kratom withdrawal - my experience [Re: Viveka]
    #19867436 - 04/18/14 09:51 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

I've recently had some rough days without kratom.

Rough because of withdrawal symptoms? Not at all.

The only negative symptoms I've had is a hurt ego because I feel like some people who are very intrusive in my life brought this on me, or they're just testing me. I feel like a lab rat in a study on kratom withdrawal so I'm reporting my experiencing here.

I will not go a night without kratom even though I experience no noticeable withdrawal. I always went out and scored headshop kratom each night my package was in limbo, despite a lot of dirty looks.

Now some could say  I never went long enough to experience withdrawal (never more than 48 hours). However, even at those times I never felt like I was physically in need of kratom because of withdrawal. Rather, I felt in need of it because of the reasons that I started using it in the first place

boredom, isolation, pain, and too high of an energy level during the seasonal change. And this seasonal change has been really rough. Either its way cold and I get depressed, or its suddenly way warm and my sleeping meds do nothing but make me feel bad (do not put me out without kratom wearing me down for hours before using the meds)

I've been using 4-8 grams daily for about 2 months but after a crazy trip I went sorta off the deep end and was using about 15+ grams a day until I swiftly ran out.

As much as this plant has helped me in a hard time while I was on testing, I can not wait to leave kratom behind. I use it as a substitute to the medical pot I will be using once I'm off of probation and move. Now, a lot of the same people who are upset with me about my kratom use are also upset that I'm going to do medical, let alone that I'm going to toke hardddd every single night of my life until the day I drop dead but

As long as I'm doing my job with ambition, what else is there to do? I'm a felon. Even if I'm bright, I'm never going to bring major positive change, even within my community. One day I'll be a helluva boyfriend to someone, and I might have to settle for less in the female department because I'm a low down drug user, but fuck the world, I love me this way.


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Re: Kratom withdrawal - my experience [Re: lot_justice]
    #19867794 - 04/18/14 10:56 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

A tsp is around 2.5 grams. I find it hard to believe you are not getting withdrawals. Low quality maybe?


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Re: Kratom withdrawal - my experience [Re: Bitter Cactus]
    #19867905 - 04/18/14 11:24 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

My tsp's are 3.5 flat. But they are heaping.


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Re: Kratom withdrawal - my experience [Re: Bitter Cactus]
    #19867961 - 04/18/14 11:35 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Bitter Cactus said:
A tsp is around 2.5 grams. I find it hard to believe you are not getting withdrawals. Low quality maybe?




Who are referring to me or OP? It'd be weird to accuse me of being misleading when this thread is full of people who dose a lot higher than I and have minimal withdrawals. I also take herbal supplements that are mood enhancing and uplifting as well as detoxifying so maybe that fights away the withdrawals. However having a 3 days of 15+ use is nothing compared to OP who uses 5 heaping spoonfuls in the morning, afternoon, and at night.

The quality is pretty good. I'm by no means an aficionado and the recent import ban might mean future batches I order will be compromised, but I'm not at all worried about quality. It's cheap, but not the cheapest. It gets the job done in one dose. 

No anxiety (none at all) from cessation of use. I actually feel cured of anxiety in a profound way. The only time I do get anxiety is when I go out to music concerts now, which sucks because those places used to be safe for me. My situational depression spikes a bit from cessation that was also a reason for beginning use. If I was stone cold sober off of kratom for a period of time and any way the drug may be effecting my brain had been reversed, I'd be much more depressed than I am while either using it or coming off of it. It's been a little ray of sunshine in my life. The cold hard fact of my life is that for the next month at least, there's not much that I have to live for. I've had a rough life and my situation right now is pretty awkward and unfixable. I'm going to suffer greatly whether I'm a saint or bastard for these next coming months, maybe years, I'm not sure and am scared to even think about such prospects. Kratom helps me to get out and enjoy little joys like the weather. It opens up music a little bit for me too, something I miss so much about pot.

I have other things going on with my physical health (which definitely contribute to my situational depression because these symptoms are being inflicted on me rather than being a failure of personal health; they're part of my crazy situation which makes it difficult for me to ever want to even have a life, let alone one that is drug-free) that are a lot more intrusive than any sort of cut off from kratom has ever been or will be.


Edited by lot_justice (04/18/14 11:57 PM)


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Re: Kratom withdrawal - my experience [Re: Bitter Cactus]
    #19869964 - 04/19/14 12:14 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Bitter Cactus said:
A tsp is around 2.5 grams. I find it hard to believe you are not getting withdrawals. Low quality maybe?




The kratom I get is great . I have taken many strains from multiple vendors.

No withdrawals . I think some people just react differently . Maybe people who have had addictions to real opiates or other drugs are more prone to kratom withdrawals, or maybe it's a genetic difference , but I know I have been taking large doses of good quality kratom every day for along time and have no withdrawals at all with cold turkey.

It may be that people are imagining kratom withdrawals - psychosomatic, or it may be people have pre-existing depression that kratom suppresses and that returns when they stop using so they mistake the return of their normal state for withdrawal.

In your case I think you suffer from meth abuse induced depression and when you take kratom it alleviates that condition so when you don't take kratom you think you are in kratom  withdrawal but you are actually  just returning to your meth induced depression.

As for a week not being enough to reset tolerance I will have to wait and see. I know in the past even one day without kratom made a huge difference so I imagine a week will be an amazing reset.

I will let you know when I test it :smile:

Also I weighed my teaspoons once and they are a touch smaller than yours, definitely small-level not heaping.

3 tsp weighed like 5.5 grams when I weighed it.

Anyways it has now been six days without kratom and I had absolutely no withdrawal that couldn't be explained by simple jet lag- 1 or 2 days of mild fatigue which could easily have just been travel fatigue.

My advice is if you are wanting to get off kratom and you are worried about withdrawal just go for it you have nothing to worry about.

I have been out here hiking in the mountains like four hours a day doing the Appalachian trails in the smoky mountains and feeling happy and strong , not what I would call withdrawal.


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Edited by Moonshoe (04/19/14 12:29 PM)


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Re: Kratom withdrawal - my experience [Re: Moonshoe]
    #19870481 - 04/19/14 02:41 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

You dose about as much as me moonshoe, and your anecdote sounds right on par with me.

I think the w/d i get is my normal anxious/depressed self, and i had just gotten used to

how much better kratom makes me feel.


:cheers:


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Re: Kratom withdrawal - my experience [Re: Legend]
    #19870669 - 04/19/14 03:24 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

For all my fellow sufferers of situational (not clinical) depression...

Have you ever reached that point where you are as certain as any human can be that you've figured out exactly what is lacking, but you either don't have the capabilities to fill this hole, or worse, some more powerful is preventing you from being able to fill that hole?

I mean, I don't want to present this notion that there are ever solutions that will make the hardships in life go away, but situational depression definitely should not be a constant in someone's life. It's symptomatic of something missing and if you are capable of discerning just what is missing and then going out and putting word towards filling that need, situational depression cane become what its supposed to be...situational. Rarer.

*le sigh* I don't need a miracle, I need recognition and trust. Freedom.

Sorry for my rant I'm in a rough situation


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Re: Kratom withdrawal - my experience [Re: lot_justice]
    #19870802 - 04/19/14 03:56 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

i've been using kratom heavily for the last 6 months and have noticed no real withdraws and only a little tolerance build up.

the effects are great for social and work settings and i think i'm going to be using it for a long time. to the point where i am trying to find out what sort of kratom garden i'd need to keep up a big daily habit


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Re: Kratom withdrawal - my experience [Re: mapleleafmarijuana]
    #19870813 - 04/19/14 03:57 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

What kind of dose do you do for social settings? I'm not too keen on doing it for social settings but I've been having problems with going to music shows here lately. Maybe a low dose as I head out the door would help me to get settled in the venue and not to be bothered by the assholes.


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Re: Kratom withdrawal - my experience [Re: lot_justice]
    #19870843 - 04/19/14 04:04 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

My kratom withdrawal experiences were before I used meth. I have been a kratom user for over two years and plan to start up for another six months once rehab is done.


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Re: Kratom withdrawal - my experience [Re: lot_justice]
    #19870865 - 04/19/14 04:08 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

lot_justice said:
What kind of dose do you do for social settings? I'm not too keen on doing it for social settings but I've been having problems with going to music shows here lately. Maybe a low dose as I head out the door would help me to get settled in the venue and not to be bothered by the assholes.



maybe 5-6 grams, i no longer drink in social settings and i smoke pot like a chimney but unless i get what i call the 'kratom nods', which is like very weak opiate nods it's not noticeable to anyone


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Re: Kratom withdrawal - my experience [Re: mapleleafmarijuana]
    #19870872 - 04/19/14 04:10 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Sweet jeebus 4-4.5 gets me too zonked to even consider going out. what's your strand of choice?


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Re: Kratom withdrawal - my experience [Re: lot_justice]
    #19870881 - 04/19/14 04:12 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

right now red thai, but i've had good experiences with most other vendors/strains. then again i only go to vendors friends have recommended


--------------------
Vinegar Tom
stay black cocksucker, thats the most important thing - joey coco diaz
I'm not racist, but I cry alot
Please rate me, I'm terribly insecure and want to know what you think of me
Manager of the official Shroomery Band. Give us spore prints for equipment


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Offlinedrr
Female
Registered: 05/20/09
Posts: 8,283
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
Re: Kratom withdrawal - my experience [Re: mapleleafmarijuana]
    #19870892 - 04/19/14 04:15 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

5-6 grams is definitely heavy for me, that's nod territory. For social stuff I like to do more like 1.5-2, maybe a little more.

Also I've found some of the green vein strains are much better for that kind of stuff and all around. I tend to get a little nauseous on the red vein stuff, though it does seem good for pain. I actually like the euphoria on a good green malay or maeng da better than the red stuff personally and I feel like it works better for active stuff.


--------------------
Dr. Robert


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Invisiblemapleleafmarijuana
Leader of Shroomery Scythians
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Registered: 03/08/12
Posts: 7,419
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Re: Kratom withdrawal - my experience [Re: drr]
    #19870913 - 04/19/14 04:23 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

drr said:
5-6 grams is definitely heavy for me, that's nod territory. For social stuff I like to do more like 1.5-2, maybe a little more.

Also I've found some of the green vein strains are much better for that kind of stuff and all around. I tend to get a little nauseous on the red vein stuff, though it does seem good for pain. I actually like the euphoria on a good green malay or maeng da better than the red stuff personally and I feel like it works better for active stuff.




my last few lbs were red strains. i'm definitely getting a green and white to try on their own as well as blended together. the best of both worlds.

i recently made a vodka kratom extract with a kilo and 1500 mls and about 10 mls will get me nice and high for a while.

also a small dose of mxe (just enough to feel a little weird) will greatly potentiate even a small dose of kratom.


--------------------
Vinegar Tom
stay black cocksucker, thats the most important thing - joey coco diaz
I'm not racist, but I cry alot
Please rate me, I'm terribly insecure and want to know what you think of me
Manager of the official Shroomery Band. Give us spore prints for equipment


Edited by mapleleafmarijuana (04/19/14 04:24 PM)


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InvisibleMoonshoe
Blue Mantis
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Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 27,166
Loc: Iceland
Re: Kratom withdrawal - my experience [Re: Bitter Cactus]
    #19870944 - 04/19/14 04:41 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Bitter Cactus said:
My kratom withdrawal experiences were before I used meth. I have been a kratom user for over two years and plan to start up for another six months once rehab is done.



Quote:

Bitter Cactus said:
My kratom withdrawal experiences were before I used meth. I have been a kratom user for over two years and plan to start up for another six months once rehab is done.



Quote:

Bitter Cactus said:
My kratom withdrawal experiences were before I used meth. I have been a kratom user for over two years and plan to start up for another six months once rehab is done.





Strange. In that case it must be a genetic difference where some people get Kratom withdrawal and some don't.

Sorry bro sounds like pure bad luck for you.

:hug:


--------------------


Everything I post is fiction.


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InvisibleVespera
Ethereal Etiquette

Registered: 03/17/14
Posts: 474
Re: Kratom withdrawal - my experience [Re: Moonshoe]
    #19870953 - 04/19/14 04:44 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Moonshoe said:
I think some people just react differently . Maybe people who have had addictions to real opiates or other drugs are more prone to kratom withdrawals,






I've been thinking this as well.


--------------------
:atom: "The copper wire pipe has a significant amount of AC electricity running through it, causing it to act like a really strong electromagnet. In the metal slug, eddy currents form due to the magnetic field the copper wire pipe is causing while the copper wire pipe has high frequency AC flowing through it. The metal slug’s electric resistance causes a portion of the electric energy to turn into heat, but the heat builds up until the metal slug becomes white hot and melts."


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Offlinelot_justice
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Re: Kratom withdrawal - my experience [Re: Vespera]
    #19870987 - 04/19/14 04:55 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Red is my go to strand because I have insomnia and also am just generally high energy this time of here. I think my vendor lost his lead on good red thai because he just posted that you should order a small amount of the new batch before considering larger amounts :frown:


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InvisibleVespera
Ethereal Etiquette

Registered: 03/17/14
Posts: 474
Re: Kratom withdrawal - my experience [Re: lot_justice]
    #19870989 - 04/19/14 04:58 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

They suggest that so if you don't like it you're not stuck with a larger amount.


--------------------
:atom: "The copper wire pipe has a significant amount of AC electricity running through it, causing it to act like a really strong electromagnet. In the metal slug, eddy currents form due to the magnetic field the copper wire pipe is causing while the copper wire pipe has high frequency AC flowing through it. The metal slug’s electric resistance causes a portion of the electric energy to turn into heat, but the heat builds up until the metal slug becomes white hot and melts."


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OfflineBitter Cactus
reformed bad boy
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Re: Kratom withdrawal - my experience [Re: Vespera]
    #19870997 - 04/19/14 05:00 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Green malay is one of my favorite strains.

Lasts SUPER long and the high is much smoother then red or green.

It has legs man I am telling you.


--------------------
Taking acid and thinking you are a better man is a lot different then actually becoming a better man.




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Offlinelot_justice
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Re: Kratom withdrawal - my experience [Re: Bitter Cactus]
    #19871014 - 04/19/14 05:09 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

That makes sense but that also indicates that this new batch of the strand is worse than the other one, unless perhaps one customer came along, had a bad time, blew him up, and he decided to post these things. However, last time he got a new batch of the strand he said "A+". This time he said too order small amounts first.


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Invisibleluvdemboomers
loner with a boner

Registered: 01/11/13
Posts: 5,054
Re: Kratom withdrawal - my experience [Re: lot_justice]
    #19871057 - 04/19/14 05:21 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Any long lasting energizing strains? Been taking white vein but it only lasts 5 hours tops.


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InvisibleVespera
Ethereal Etiquette

Registered: 03/17/14
Posts: 474
Re: Kratom withdrawal - my experience [Re: lot_justice]
    #19871077 - 04/19/14 05:27 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

lot_justice said:

That makes sense but that also indicates that this new batch of the strand is worse than the other one, unless perhaps one customer came along, had a bad time, blew him up, and he decided to post these things. However, last time he got a new batch of the strand he said "A+". This time he said too order small amounts first.





Different people take to different strains of kratom, liking one over the other. Some strains of kratom aren't as effective for some people as they are for others.


--------------------
:atom: "The copper wire pipe has a significant amount of AC electricity running through it, causing it to act like a really strong electromagnet. In the metal slug, eddy currents form due to the magnetic field the copper wire pipe is causing while the copper wire pipe has high frequency AC flowing through it. The metal slug’s electric resistance causes a portion of the electric energy to turn into heat, but the heat builds up until the metal slug becomes white hot and melts."


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