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Anonymous

rejection of logic.
    #1976863 - 10/03/03 05:36 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

this is something about the eastern ways, especially taoism, that eludes me. why eschew logic? what's wrong with reason?


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: rejection of logic. [Re: ]
    #1976962 - 10/03/03 06:03 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

It's not that there's anything wrong with it. It's just that it can only bring you so far in understanding the universe, and at a certain point becomes a mental block. If you've taken a high dose of mushrooms(5g or higher) or other psychedelics you might understand what I'm talking about. This reality is far too complex to be understood through logic alone.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Anonymous

Re: rejection of logic. [Re: silversoul7]
    #1976980 - 10/03/03 06:10 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

yeah, i hear that.

it just seems that the rejection of logic is so explicit (ever read chuang-tzu?) that what they're getting at is that there's something wrong with it....

this whole ox, non-ox thing... suns simultaneously arising and setting... i'm just not getting it.


Edited by Anonymous (10/03/03 06:11 PM)


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OfflineAzmodeus
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Re: rejection of logic. [Re: ]
    #1976986 - 10/03/03 06:11 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

There are some things logic can't explain...

...like a womens behaviour for example....


--------------------
"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: rejection of logic. [Re: ]
    #1976989 - 10/03/03 06:13 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

this whole ox, non-ox thing... suns simultaneously arising and setting... i'm just not getting it.



I get it, but I can't really explain it to you, because to explain something, I'd have to use logic, which doesn't apply in this case. But I'll try anyway: Try to think of how everything is all one. Then the difference between ox and non-ox disappears.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineSpokesman
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Re: rejection of logic. [Re: silversoul7]
    #1977400 - 10/03/03 09:49 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I agree with Azmadeous, logic can only explain so much. Imagination is needed to go beyond that point. I mean logic can explain the big bang but it cant explaint the reason why we existace in the first place. My beliefs are always evolving, at times i fought myself to keep myself sane. But i alwasys hold to that grip of logic not to go TO deep into a belief where i would lose my original self. I remind myself that my beliefs make the most sense at the time but could still be wrong all together, because like my sig says. Nothing is REALLY proven.


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: rejection of logic. [Re: Spokesman]
    #1978363 - 10/04/03 04:54 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

More paranoia and groundless dismissal of a useful tool... geez.

Who ever gave any of you the impression that logic is missing from Eastern mysticism/religion?

Aren't most of our electronics as well as some of the most well-engineered cars in the world made in Southeast Asia?  I guess that's because they hate logic, right?  :rolleyes:


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: rejection of logic. [Re: Sclorch]
    #1978987 - 10/04/03 02:51 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

You're absolutely right. Logic is not rejected by Eastern religions. In fact, the Buddha instructed his disciples to question everything, including his own teachings. Just think how much better Christianity might be if Jesus had done the same to his disciples.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Re: rejection of logic. [Re: silversoul7]
    #1978997 - 10/04/03 02:58 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

logic is just a tool of belief

belief is the key to the universe

/ DoctorJ ducks to dodge accusations of being dogmaticly brainwashed committed by hardened analyticals


--------------------
peace, pot, and microdot!


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: rejection of logic. [Re: silversoul7]
    #1979017 - 10/04/03 03:05 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

silversoul7 said:
You're absolutely right. Logic is not rejected by Eastern religions. In fact, the Buddha instructed his disciples to question everything, including his own teachings. Just think how much better Christianity might be if Jesus had done the same to his disciples.




He probably did. Right up until the men that are so fucking holy decided to take that part out, for the good of the people beneath them... There is no way for me to convey with those words the accompanying feelings and connections to other thoughts that came with those words... ?shudders?
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineSpokesman
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Re: rejection of logic. [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1979500 - 10/04/03 07:23 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Ever since Christianity founded it's own country (U.S.) Its become mixed with a with a goverment trying to keep its people under control, hence the fear implementing techniques. So the original teachings of Christianity could have been alot better than the mess modern day fear implementing priest have turned it into.


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OfflineNiamhNyx
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Re: rejection of logic. [Re: Spokesman]
    #1979584 - 10/04/03 08:07 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Christianity had been messed with long before anyone ever knew about the USA. I seem to remember learning that the Pope told all the peasants in Europe that if they joined the Crusades and killed lots of Jews and Muslims they'd gain instant access to heaven no matter what. If a religion is based upon a set of scriptures those scriptures are bound to be twisted and rewritten to suit the needs of whoever is ruling. Which is why I opt out of religion and chose my path from what makes sense to me on the deepest level, no matter what source it comes from.


As for logic, it has its place. But it's one way of knowing. The problem with our culture is that we idolize it, we worship logic and we refuse to accept that there are many ways of knowing and not all of them are objective, clear or cold. I respect ration and logic, but they play only a part in my decision making process. Logic usually comes into play when I'm trying to decide how to act on my instincts/intuition.


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OfflineSpokesman
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Re: rejection of logic. [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #1979612 - 10/04/03 08:25 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Well yeah the truth of it all is that Christianity was based on religions before it. The Hebrews just basicly took alot of ideas from previous cultures and praised Yaweh as the "only" god. When prvious religions stated that he wasnt. Same with Islam, they just picked Allah. And its been holy war ever since. So the whole religion was based on war, ofcourse its going to have terrible results when people are willing to kill and die over they're belief. But what i ment was that alot of Jesus teachings where correct and hads good intent, but people just asume that he was perfect. People dont seem to realize that they believe what was tought to them, and the ones who tought them were tought tmeselves. It worked like this for a Kazillion years. So in a race of beings where lies and confusion are a part of their nature, how could any teaching not be curupted. Thats why its up to every individual to search there own meaning.


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Anonymous

Re: rejection of logic. [Re: Spokesman]
    #1981304 - 10/05/03 02:54 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

did i miss something?

how does this have anything to do with the rejection of logic by various eastern philosophical\spiritual paths?


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OfflineOook
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Re: rejection of logic. [Re: ]
    #1981457 - 10/05/03 03:48 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I think logic still has a part to play, its just its meaningless in certain situations.


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OfflineFunguy
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Re: rejection of logic. [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #1981461 - 10/05/03 03:48 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)


^^^^ I agree. But I just wanted to comment on just one post.

Quote:

NiamhNyx said:
Christianity had been messed with long before anyone ever knew about the USA. I seem to remember learning that the Pope told all the peasants in Europe that if they joined the Crusades and killed lots of Jews and Muslims they'd gain instant access to heaven no matter what. If a religion is based upon a set of scriptures those scriptures are bound to be twisted and rewritten to suit the needs of whoever is ruling. Which is why I opt out of religion and chose my path from what makes sense to me on the deepest level, no matter what source it comes from.





Actually, nobody except the clergy of the church were able to read the Bible, because it was written in Latin. The pope just made up some reasons behind doing those atrocious things. The people did not know any better and just blindly accepted what the church told them. Then Martin Luther came along...
(I do recommend that you should question why you believe what you/other people believe)

The reason why many religions eschew logic is simply because you cannot use logic to explain something outside of logic (supernatural).


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OTD UNDERDOGS

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OfflineNiamhNyx
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Re: rejection of logic. [Re: Funguy]
    #1981478 - 10/05/03 03:55 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I'm aware of the fact that people were unable to read the bible apart from clergy members, which is precisely what made it so easy for them to manipulate people. But remember, the religion has been formed and influenced by these corrupt figures, so can we really believe it's in its pure state, that it isn't perverted from what it was originally intended to portray?

That was a clear and simple explanation of the logic thing btw, well said.


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OfflineOook
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Re: rejection of logic. [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #1981981 - 10/05/03 08:13 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

funguy u mean marting luther king translated the bible from latin?
:P
damn this shpongle track sounds like the music at the science museum.


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OfflineFunguy
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Re: rejection of logic. [Re: Oook]
    #1982022 - 10/05/03 08:31 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

No, Martin Luther, the monk who believed that all people should be able to read the Bible. He translated the Bible from Latin to German.


--------------------

OTD UNDERDOGS

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: rejection of logic. [Re: Funguy]
    #1983008 - 10/06/03 03:59 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Funguy said:
No, Martin Luther, the monk who believed that all people should be able to read the Bible. He translated the Bible from Latin to German.




Eh.. that doesn't exactly sound right to me... I mean, confirmed Lutheran and all that, but I still don't remember him translating the Bible.. could be mistaken, though.
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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