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Shop: PhytoExtractum Maeng Da Thai Kratom Leaf Powder   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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InvisibletrendalM
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Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,790
Loc: Ontario, Canada Flag
Re: Polish Troops in Iraq find recently produced French Missiles [Re: wingnutx]
    #1976761 - 10/03/03 05:10 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

The Roland anti-aircraft system is a short-range air defence missile in service with at least ten countries, including France and Germany.

Does that mean that France produces these missiles and sells them to ten other countries for their usage? Or that these missiles are produced in ten different countries?


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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Invisiblewingnutx

Registered: 09/25/00
Posts: 2,282
Re: Polish Troops in Iraq find recently produced French Missiles [Re: trendal]
    #1976813 - 10/03/03 05:25 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

I think produced in France and then sold to the ten different countries.



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Anonymous

Re: Polish Troops in Iraq find recently produced French Missiles [Re: wingnutx]
    #1976825 - 10/03/03 05:27 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

that is correct.


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Polish Troops in Iraq find recently produced French Missiles [Re: ]
    #1976847 - 10/03/03 05:34 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

this isn't the first time they've come across these missiles in iraq

So what? Do you believe the french government are so desperate for money they're selling 4 missiles to Saddam for christs sake?


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Don't worry, B. Caapi


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Polish Troops in Iraq find recently produced French Missiles [Re: infidelGOD]
    #1976861 - 10/03/03 05:36 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

what about all the US made stinger missiles that were in the possesion of Taliban fighters?

And of course they were supplied directly to the nightmarish warlords by the american government.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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Anonymous

Re: Polish Troops in Iraq find recently produced French Missiles [Re: Xlea321]
    #1976884 - 10/03/03 05:43 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

(in order to repel a soviet invasion)


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Polish Troops in Iraq find recently produced French Missiles [Re: ]
    #1978001 - 10/04/03 02:16 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

So by the same logic you would support governments selling the taliban weapons in order to repel the US invasion?

Or are wars of aggression allright if George Bush says so?


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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Anonymous

Re: Polish Troops in Iraq find recently produced French Missiles [Re: Xlea321]
    #1978672 - 10/04/03 11:21 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

no alex. fallacious reasoning. the two are incomparable.

fundamental difference: when the soviets went into afghanistan it wasn't because the government of afghanistan was in cahoots with an international terrorist organization that was attacking russians all over the world. it was simply to install and support an unpopular communist government.

the US's invasion was not a 'war of aggression'.... they clearly had been hitting us first for years.

the invasion by the soviets was.


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Polish Troops in Iraq find recently produced French Missiles [Re: ]
    #1978775 - 10/04/03 01:05 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

I'm afraid saying invading Afghanistan was to stop international terrorism is pure Bush bullshit. Plain and simple. You do not invade Eire to stop the IRA. (Incidentally Bin Laden is still operating)

And if thousands of innocent dead civilians and the widespread use of depleted uranium weapons, cluster bombs and daisy cutters isn't a "war of aggression" I don't know what is.

Remember, your perception of the Russian invasion is merely what people like George Bush have told you. The truth is a little different. Are you aware the Afghan government invited the Russians in to help protect them from CIA backed terrorists operating out of Pakistan for example?

And surely it's a little rich the country that invaded Vietnam complaining about "wars of aggression"?


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Don't worry, B. Caapi


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Anonymous

Re: Polish Troops in Iraq find recently produced French Missiles [Re: Xlea321]
    #1978977 - 10/04/03 02:43 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

I'm afraid saying invading Afghanistan was to stop international terrorism is pure Bush bullshit. Plain and simple. You do not invade Eire to stop the IRA. (Incidentally Bin Laden is still operating)

we've already discussed this. perhaps your memory is worse than mine. here: same argument still applies.

why do you think the united states went to war against the taliban and al-qaeda?

And if thousands of innocent dead civilians and the widespread use of depleted uranium weapons, cluster bombs and daisy cutters isn't a "war of aggression" I don't know what is.

every war is a war of aggression. the real question is: who is the aggressor? the identity of the aggressor of course has nothing to do with the tactics employed by each side, but is determined by which party initiated forceful action.

Remember, your perception of the Russian invasion is merely what people like George Bush have told you. The truth is a little different. Are you aware the Afghan government invited the Russians in to help protect them from CIA backed terrorists operating out of Pakistan for example?

this perception is historically accurate, and one that will be corroborated by many unbiased sources.

which afghan government are you referring to? the People's Democratic Party of Afghanistan?

1978: pro-soviet communist guerrillas assassinate afghani president muhammad daud khan and establish the People's Democratic Republic of Afghanistan.

1979: a coup against the PDPA, bringing Hafizullah Amin to power, provokes an invasion in december of that year by soviet forces and the installation of babrak karmal as president.

the invasion sparked international outcry. guerrilla resistance fighers, the mujahidin, were supported by aid from the united states, china, and saudi arabia, channeled through pakistan, and from iran. eventually soviet forces pull out and the government of the PDPA collapses.

the events are quite clear. the soviet government invaded afghanistan to install and prop up an unpopular pro-soviet government. there was no justifiable reason for them to invade afghanistan. they were the aggressors in the conflict.

And surely it's a little rich the country that invaded Vietnam complaining about "wars of aggression"?

completely fallacious. do i really need to show you why?


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InvisibleEdame
gone

Registered: 01/14/03
Posts: 1,270
Loc: outta here
Re: Polish Troops in Iraq find recently produced French Miss [Re: wingnutx]
    #1979347 - 10/04/03 05:49 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Poland Apologizes for French Missiles Report
Sat October 4, 2003 12:46 PM ET
By Pawel Kozlowski and Marcin Grajewski

WARSAW/ROME (Reuters) - Poland apologized to France on Saturday for claiming that its troops had found advanced French-made missiles in Iraq that had been produced this year.

The report sparked strong criticism from French President Jacques Chirac, who called it wrong and drawn up without proper checks.

However, neither Polish nor French authorities denied that the Roland-type anti-aircraft weapons were discovered near the Iraqi town of Hilla in a zone controlled by the Polish-led military force.

"Defense Minister Jerzy Szmajdzinski expresses regret concerning the information on the alleged date of the production of these missiles," the ministry said in a statement, adding that a investigation had been ordered.

The Polish Defense Ministry said on Friday that Polish troops in Iraq had discovered four French-made Roland missiles, which are part of short-range air defense systems in many countries including France and Germany.

Ministry spokesman Eugeniusz Mleczak told Reuters the missiles were manufactured in 2003, but the French Foreign Ministry promptly denied that, saying production of the most modern Roland 3 rocket ended in 1993.

"There could not be any 2003 missiles because those missiles have not been manufactured for 15 years," Chirac told a news conference at a European Union summit in Rome.

"I believe the Polish soldiers have created confusion that could have been avoided with thorough verification," he said, adding that he had made the point to Polish Prime Minister Leszek Miller "in a friendly but frank and firm way."

FRANCE ANGRY

The spat briefly sent France's relations with Poland, the biggest of 10 countries set to join the EU in seven months, to fresh lows after Chirac criticized Poland for supporting the U.S.-led war on Iraq, some diplomats said.

But a senior French diplomatic source told reporters that following the Warsaw's apology "France was satisfied and the issue was clarified."

Many Polish politicians cannot forgive Chirac, an outspoken opponent of the war, for his remark this year that Poland and other EU newcomers "missed a good opportunity to keep quiet" when they signed a joint open letter in support of Washington.

France has been irritated by Poland's refusal to accept a new EU voting system embedded in a draft constitution which EU members and newcomers debated in Rome.

The United States gave a Polish-led force control over a zone in south-central Iraq after Poland emerged as one of its strongest allies in the war against Iraq.

Industrial sources in France said 2003 was the year the missiles were checked in Iraq by an Iraqi company, not the year of manufacture.

A French Foreign Ministry spokeswoman told Reuters on Friday that Roland 1 missile systems were sent to Iraq from 1980 to 1981 and Roland 2 systems from 1983 to 1986. The Roland 3 was never exported to Iraq, she said.

Under a strict trade embargo imposed by the United Nations, Iraq was barred from buying arms after its invasion of Kuwait in 1990. But Baghdad managed to circumvent the ban in the 1990s through shadowy deals with various arms traders.




http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=worldNews&storyID=3558044


--------------------
The above is an extract from my fictional novel, "The random postings of Edame".
:tongue:

In the beginning was the word. And man could not handle the word, and the hearing of the word, and he asked God to take away his ears so that he might live in peace without having to hear words which might upset his equinamity or corrupt the unblemished purity of his conscience.

And God, hearing this desperate plea from His creation, wrinkled His mighty brow for a moment and then leaned down toward man, beckoning that he should come close so as to hear all that was about to be revealed to him.

"Fuck you," He whispered, and frowned upon the pathetic supplicant before retreating to His heavens.


Edited by Edame (10/04/03 05:50 PM)


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Invisiblewingnutx

Registered: 09/25/00
Posts: 2,282
Re: Polish Troops in Iraq find recently produced French Miss [Re: Edame]
    #1979376 - 10/04/03 05:59 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Good find.


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Polish Troops in Iraq find recently produced French Miss [Re: Edame]
    #1980510 - 10/05/03 03:11 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Thanks edame. It was complete bullshit all along.

Strange how anxious our right-wing collegues were for it to be true tho  :smile: 


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Don't worry, B. Caapi


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