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Invisiblewingnutx

Registered: 09/24/00
Posts: 2,282
Re: gun control [Re: ]
    #1983529 - 10/06/03 11:03 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Firearms construction is sophisiticated.





I made a muzzle-loading shotgun when I was 11 or 12 years old. It was powered by match heads. Worked like a charm.


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: gun control [Re: ]
    #1983533 - 10/06/03 11:07 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

guns do not lead you down to the liquor store to rob the cashier.

Sure makes it a lot easier to make the cashier hand over the money tho.

you will find that alcohol and tobacco kill 50 or 60 times as many people per year than die from murders by firearm.

Really is a specious argument. Are you saying you would be as happy giving inmates access to guns as you would giving them access to tobacco? Which do you think would be more dangerous?


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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Anonymous

Re: gun control [Re: Xlea321]
    #1983550 - 10/06/03 11:16 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

I thought I read you saying something about "name one act of genocide on an armed populace".

the BULK of my argument...

though the idea that insurgency and military-scale conflict is indeed a reason for citizens to maintain arms, wasn't the BULK of my argument, i still refuted your ".38 caliber" argument, because it's still a part, and a valid part, of it.

Didn't do the taliban much good. And they were hardened fighters. How effective would Uncle Earl and his friend Bubba be after a lifetime sat in an office shooting at a tank with a rifle? My guess is the second the tank fired a shell or two they would drop their rifles and run in the opposite direction so hard their knees would hit their chins. If any town attempted to fight back a tyrant would simply drop a daisy cutter on it anyway.

you're missing the point. rifles are effective infantry weapons. that's why virtually all infantrymen carry them.

as for your stats: i couldn't find any of them on the CDC website; some of the link at that anti-handgun site do not even work. most of those stats are total figures, not per capita numbers, and the sample size of different nations is very small.

the figures for suicide and accidents are misleading... since the baseline risk is not established, saying numbers like "16 times more likely" means nothing. it could be that european children have a .0002% chance of being killed in a firearm accident while the risk for american children is .0032%. why not just compare per capita rates for the variables in question? why twist numbers around?

i would render the data into per capita figures, but unfortunately there is not enough information given by your stats to do so, and i cannot find the sources the sites you cite are citing.


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Invisiblewingnutx

Registered: 09/24/00
Posts: 2,282
Re: gun control [Re: ]
    #1983557 - 10/06/03 11:19 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Remember the 'Liberator' pistol?


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Anonymous

Re: gun control [Re: wingnutx]
    #1983570 - 10/06/03 11:24 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)



"The correct name for the Liberator Pistol is the "Flare Projector" Caliber .45 (FP-45). During 1942 over a six month period one million pistols were produced. Actual production of the pistol was about 11 weeks. Using that figure, 300 people produced a pistol with 23 parts every 6.6 seconds, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, for 11 weeks. This is probably the only pistol that could be made faster than it could be loaded. Loading takes about 10 seconds."


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OfflineRoseM
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Registered: 09/24/03
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Re: gun control [Re: wingnutx]
    #1983575 - 10/06/03 11:27 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

If guns are the wonderfuly safe invention some people make them out to be, why can't everybody have one at any age?

I know, children's hands are too small to carry some guns. Why not make child sized handguns? The Liberator looks about right.

I've been reading mushmaster's posts and I have turned 180 degrees. Now I say, "Guns for everyone!"


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.



Edited by Rose (10/06/03 11:28 AM)


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Invisiblewingnutx

Registered: 09/24/00
Posts: 2,282
Re: gun control [Re: Rose]
    #1983589 - 10/06/03 11:32 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

I wouldn't let my 3 year old nephew play with a book of matches, a sheet of blotter, or a steak-knife. That doesn't mean that an adult shouldn't have those things.


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: gun control [Re: wingnutx]
    #1983597 - 10/06/03 11:37 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Matches, blotter and steak knives for everyone too!

Let's see which is the biggest killer.

I'll put my money on the guns.


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Fiddlesticks.



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Invisiblewingnutx

Registered: 09/24/00
Posts: 2,282
Re: gun control [Re: Rose]
    #1983608 - 10/06/03 11:41 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Add beer to that list and you've got a new contender.


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: gun control [Re: wingnutx]
    #1983611 - 10/06/03 11:43 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Mix 'em all, and you have an ubersoldier!


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Fiddlesticks.



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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: gun control [Re: ]
    #1983814 - 10/06/03 01:23 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

And what about your theory that "drugs are as dangerous as guns"? Does this mean you would be as happy issuing all prisoners with handguns and rifles as you would giving them tobacco?



--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: gun control [Re: Xlea321]
    #1983970 - 10/06/03 02:21 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

I think we can safely leave tobacco out of this unless someone has some good statistics on death by sidestream smoke. There are still more deaths of innocent victims caused by drug and alcohol abuse than there is with guns.

Let's not forget also that a large part of gun deaths are caused as much by drugs as they are by guns.

Way to only care about your own rights Al. You'd make an excellent Amerikkkan too.


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: gun control [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1984116 - 10/06/03 03:39 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

There are more smokers and drinkers in America than gun owners.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.



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Anonymous

Re: gun control [Re: Xlea321]
    #1984126 - 10/06/03 03:43 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

And what about your theory that "drugs are as dangerous as guns"? Does this mean you would be as happy issuing all prisoners with handguns and rifles as you would giving them tobacco?

excuse me? my theory? and why the quotes?

i never said anything of the sort.

perhaps you are referring to baby hitlers statement that "Drugs are every bit as dangerous as guns." to which you said "how can you even suggest they are?".

i was just suggesting that maybe what was meant by 'dangerous' was its overall potential to cause harm. looking at statistics, it would seem obvious that the overall harm caused by people using drugs is greater than the overall harm by people using guns.

whether or not i particularly agree with this definition is something i did not express or imply. the fact is that i don't. i would judge something's "dangerousness" in this sense as its potential harm people excluding the individual using it. by this definition, guns clearly are far ahead of drugs.

in this response by monoamine, "Well,I've experimented with enough drugs and I'm still here,alive and well. If I experimented with weapons,the outcome would have likely been different."

he seems to define "dangerous" as including potential harm to the individual user of guns or drugs. his statement that he likely would not "be here, alive, and well" if he had used weapons in his life is absurd, unless he is taken to reckless and irresponsible behavior, in which case his safefy is quite at risk when using drugs as well; gun accidents are extraodinarily rare... but i digress, we are straying totally away from the realm of relevancy here.

whether it is drugs or guns which are more dangerous, and what definition we tag on the word "dangerous" is totally irrelevant.

...no... i wouldn't give weapons to prisoners. i wouldn't prohibit them from law-abiding citizens either.


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OfflineRoseM
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Registered: 09/24/03
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Re: gun control [Re: ]
    #1984145 - 10/06/03 03:50 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Guns for prisoners would give the PRISONERS A CHANCE TO PROTECT THEMSELVES from sodomy.

Evryone should have the right to protect themselves. Right?


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.



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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
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Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,244
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: gun control [Re: ]
    #1984236 - 10/06/03 04:30 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Nice job but it appears facts don't matter to some.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: gun control [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1984872 - 10/06/03 08:40 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Facts kill ten million children under 5 every 32 seconds.


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Offlinemonoamine
umask 077(nonefor you)

Registered: 09/07/02
Posts: 3,095
Loc: Jacksonville,FL
Last seen: 15 years, 2 months
Re: gun control [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1985097 - 10/06/03 09:57 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Nice job but it appears facts don't matter to some.




Sometimes "the facts" are hard to find. Statistics can be compiled and interpreted a million different ways. Like the two studies used by "pro gun" people are pretty well done studies,but upon reading them in their entirety,I've concluded that some people distort them to fit their own agendas. And if you want to be scientific about the whole thing,you need several studies that are reproduced to establish any kind of facts or good theories. Until that is done,I think I'll use Einstein's way of thinking in pure concepts and logic,while keeping the few well done studies at the back of my mind.

Like Ann Coulter always cites this goofy twenty-something year old study that says that married people have more enjoyable sex.This study was poorly done and hasn't been reproduced,so until it is-I'll assume she's full of shit.


--------------------
People think that if you just say the word "hallucinations" it explains everything you want it to explain and eventually whatever it is you can't explain will just go away.It's just a word,it doesn't explain anything...
Douglas Adams


Edited by monoamine (10/06/03 10:00 PM)


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OfflineRoseM
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Registered: 09/24/03
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Re: gun control [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1985160 - 10/06/03 10:15 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Well, Gary Kleck's 5000 person Defensive gun use study is certainly all inclusive!


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.



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OfflineRoseM
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Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 22,478
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Re: gun control [Re: Rose]
    #1985490 - 10/06/03 11:50 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

My girlfriend just asked me a great question after reading some of mushmaster's old posts in this thread.

Why, when gun loving Americans are asked to give up their guns, do they claim their rights are being taken away? Many of the same people could go to an outdoor concert, have a bottle of water confiscated by security and just accept it as the price of livin' in the USA?


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.



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