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OfflineEkstaza
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Once again, the L-Tryptophan Q
    #1974425 - 10/02/03 11:45 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I just got through doing a search on L-Tryptophan and increasing potency and I've read every post I found that was relevent. This weekend I plan to start a grow with a mixture of parakeet feed (millet, oat groats, and canary grass seed) and sesame seeds. The sesame seeds are said to have a .5% tryptophan content and I'm not sure if the canary grass seed contains any precusors or not(Canary Grass or Phalaris Grass is known to contain DMT).

I already have the seeds and they are going to be used no matter what but what I want to ask is whether or not any of you think it will make much of a difference.

I also have a source for veterinary grade L-Tryptophan at a price that equals out to about $.54 per gram. Do any of my fellow shroomerites think that adding this pure powder (about 2 grams) to a Rye Flour cake would be noticably beneficial?

If so would 2 grams be too much or too little?

Thanks in advance for any feedback.


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OfflineEkstaza
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Re: Once again, the L-Tryptophan Q [Re: Ekstaza]
    #1982624 - 10/06/03 12:33 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Come on people. You must have some input on this.


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Invisiblemicro
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Re: Once again, the L-Tryptophan Q [Re: Ekstaza]
    #1983593 - 10/06/03 12:34 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I think adding tryptophan would be a waste of time -- I don't think it'll increase the potency by that much.  The DMT should work, I would think, if there is DMT in it.  Please post your results :wink:

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OfflineEkstaza
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Re: Once again, the L-Tryptophan Q [Re: micro]
    #1984399 - 10/06/03 06:38 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I'm PCing the parakeet seed as I type. I'm not to optimistic about the canary grass seeds having DMT in them or if they do enough to matter.

Isn't tryptophan a precursor to tryptamine and tryptamine a precursor to psilicybin and psilocin? I would think that adding a rich source of it would provide the mycelium with more of the building blocks it needs to produce the goodies.

Three of my jars are a mix of millet, oat groats, canary grass seed, and sesame seed. The sesame seed is supposed to have .5% tryptophan. Those three jars will be cased together and I'll try to do my best to compare the fruits from them with the other jars without sesame seed. It will be bioassay so the results will really be meaningless but what the hell. No harm in trying. They might come out to be great.

Wish me luck.



--------------------
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Invisiblemicro
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Re: Once again, the L-Tryptophan Q [Re: Ekstaza]
    #1984581 - 10/06/03 07:41 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Almost all precursors tryptophan and above inhibit the decarboxylation of tryptophan.  This is the step that turns it into tryptamine.  If you add tryptamine no tryptophan needs to be decarboxylated, since it already has tryptamine.  If you add tryptophan, however, it'll stop converting it at some point.

I guess my point is I don't think it'll make a really big difference.  Of course, however, try it, if you want -- it very well may make some difference in the potency, and by all means test it out and post your results :wink:

Just my view on things :wink:

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OfflineElemicin
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Re: Once again, the L-Tryptophan Q [Re: micro]
    #2000212 - 10/11/03 03:18 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

you can decarboxylate it in your home if you have a chemistry kit :smile:

you can find the details on the hive if you are interested.


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InvisibleSorted
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Re: Once again, the L-Tryptophan Q [Re: Elemicin]
    #2000566 - 10/11/03 06:00 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I think micro may be right. Quinoa grain's something like 1.1% tryptophan (if the nutrient data I read is correct) but people using that don't report particularly more potent shrooms. I've heard figures of 10% potency increase quoted, but I don't think you can come up with percentages like that just by eating them and trying to gauge the difference..


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OfflineFlux
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Re: Once again, the L-Tryptophan Q [Re: Sorted]
    #2001277 - 10/11/03 11:47 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I'm sorry but I have to say something about all the posts concerning increasing mushsoom potency using all these fancy and labor intensive techniques. At the risk of losing cool points I have to ask instead of adding triptaphan/tryptamine etc. to your growing medium why not use it to synthesize pysilocybin/psylocin? I am in the process of experimenting with undefined growing medium to produce better/healthy/faster growing/more powerful flushes/mycelium using nutrient broths and a variety of growing mediums to find a combination that works so it's not that I have an apathetic view towards growing mushrooms but it just seems like everyones putting way too much effort towards marginal gains. I don't mind sharing my ideas, so if you're interested PM me.


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Offlinelysergic
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Re: Once again, the L-Tryptophan Q [Re: Flux]
    #2001649 - 10/12/03 03:00 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I'm not sure if you can purchase l-tryptophan at health food stores anymore, because this would be the ideal way to add large amounts, but if you can't, i know certain brands of dog food have it. Maybe use dog food / water as your liquid with your grains. Keep us posted


--------------------
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PsiloKitten said:
Just give em a little more time, the iraqis are making great progress. And this is unorganized. Wait till they get organized.


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Offlinestara
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Re: Once again, the L-Tryptophan Q [Re: lysergic]
    #2005623 - 10/13/03 04:49 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I heard that dmt containing plant can be mixed in bulk substrate with cow poe and straw and it 's increasing the potency,is it right?have you tried that way?


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OfflineEkstaza
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Re: Once again, the L-Tryptophan Q [Re: lysergic]
    #2005763 - 10/13/03 05:58 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

You can still get L-Tryptophan through veterinary sources as veterinary grade L-Tryptophan.


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Invisiblemicro
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Re: Once again, the L-Tryptophan Q [Re: Ekstaza]
    #2009346 - 10/14/03 09:17 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I don't think L-Tryptophan is regulated at all, so you should be able to buy it. Tryptamine isn't listed either, on the DEA or TCIA lists, so you should be able to get them from somewhere....

Psilocybin can't be *that* easy to synthesize.... it would probably also be advantageous to use a phenolic bicyclic compound instead of tryptophan, but I'm not sure.... Maybe on rhodium.ws?

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Invisiblemicro
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Re: Once again, the L-Tryptophan Q [Re: micro]
    #2009395 - 10/14/03 09:31 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Actually, if you are interested, read:

http://www.rhodium.ws/chemistry/iodovanillin.html

Hope that helps!

--
Micro


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OfflineEkstaza
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Re: Once again, the L-Tryptophan Q [Re: micro]
    #2009817 - 10/14/03 11:28 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

That stuff is way over my head. The only chemistry I ever had was in high school. I did alright but we never delved that deep either.


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Offlinestoner2002
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Re: Once again, the L-Tryptophan Q [Re: Ekstaza]
    #2010125 - 10/15/03 12:48 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)



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OfflineEkstaza
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Re: Once again, the L-Tryptophan Q [Re: stoner2002]
    #2010882 - 10/15/03 08:37 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

This place is cheaper and you can buy it as a powder.
http://www.biochemicals.com/orderonline.php3
You just have to buy a lot.


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OfflineElemicin
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Re: Once again, the L-Tryptophan Q [Re: Ekstaza]
    #2027417 - 10/21/03 01:59 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

ok lets address thing.

1. tryptophan will not work.


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OfflineElemicin
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Re: Once again, the L-Tryptophan Q [Re: Ekstaza]
    #2027438 - 10/21/03 02:06 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

ok lets address thing.

1. tryptophan will not work.
why? the mushroom cannot decarboxylate the molecule to the corresponding amine. however YOU can do this!

how? heat.
well not really just heat, it seems to be quiet a process however if you have chemical equiptment and skill it can be done. decarboxylation basically removes a (carboxyl) group from the molecule to give you the amine. It can be achieved buy refluxing the tryptophan in a high boiling solvent and a ketone catalyst. I believe MEK yields the best and it very OTC.

I will not go into the details PM me if you are interested but here is the basic proceedure (it can be found at the hive/rhodium)


1. Tryptophan (in DMSO + MEK cat) ----> tryptamie + CO2
distill DMSO/MEK
2. tryptamine (freebase) + HCL ----> tryptamine.hcl
distill water
3. recrystallize with anhydrous (water free) rubbing alcohol.


the link above with the iodovanillin is pretty useless (for our purposes), its for making 5-ho-vanillin which is to make mescaline.


Edited by Elemicin (10/21/03 02:07 AM)


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Invisiblemicro
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Re: Once again, the L-Tryptophan Q [Re: Elemicin]
    #2028034 - 10/21/03 09:34 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

the mushroom cannot decarboxylate the molecule to the corresponding amine.




Yes it can. It's called the tryptamine shikimic acid pathway.

Of course you could de-COOH the tryptophan, if you had a lab, but I think tryptamine is legal, anyway (I could be wrong....) I'll try to find a source for it, if I can. If not, I'm going to synthesize some because my damn Phalaris grass never came.

--
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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics >> Advanced Mycology

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