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InvisibleShins
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Re: Minimum Wage Effects On Employment [Re: Stonehenge]
    #19779366 - 04/01/14 04:57 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Wages have also declined because wealth has been misallocated, stolen and destroyed by corrupt bankers and politicians from the productive workers of the country.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Minimum Wage Effects On Employment [Re: Shins]
    #19779377 - 04/01/14 04:58 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Wages have not declined.


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InvisibleShins
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Re: Minimum Wage Effects On Employment [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19779386 - 04/01/14 04:59 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Relative to what?


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Minimum Wage Effects On Employment [Re: Shins]
    #19779476 - 04/01/14 05:15 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Wages in the past.


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InvisibleShins
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Re: Minimum Wage Effects On Employment [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19780486 - 04/01/14 07:42 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Wages in the past.




That's not a sufficient metric to calculate real wages


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Minimum Wage Effects On Employment [Re: Shins]
    #19783028 - 04/02/14 09:00 AM (9 years, 9 months ago)

They are adjusted for inflation.  Just stop.


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Offlineqman
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Re: Minimum Wage Effects On Employment [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19783055 - 04/02/14 09:05 AM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Off shoring has nothing to do with  minimum wage and the core reason wages have stagnated (not declined) is because of illegal border jumping scum who suck government resources, cheat on taxes and contribute to a higher than natural supply of workers in jobs that cannot be off shored.





"Off shoring has nothing to do with minimum wage and the core reason wages have stagnated"

Losing jobs to other countries and creating an excess pool of labor does bring down the minimum wage and wages in general, people crossing the border also creates the same situation.

Why do you think low skilled workers and now college graduates have been struggling (high unemployment and declining real wages) in the workforce?  Too many workers relative to labor demand.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Minimum Wage Effects On Employment [Re: qman]
    #19783153 - 04/02/14 09:22 AM (9 years, 9 months ago)

The excess pool of labor is entirely due to illegal immigration.  Competition is healthy.  It cuts out the chaff and makes for more efficient production.  It also has not one thing to do with a government imposed wage manipulation.  An increase in the minimum wage will increase the incentive to send more jobs offshore.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Minimum Wage Effects On Employment [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19783186 - 04/02/14 09:28 AM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
The excess pool of labor is entirely due to illegal immigration. 


That's a ridiculous statement.


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InvisibleShins
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Re: Minimum Wage Effects On Employment [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19783214 - 04/02/14 09:37 AM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
They are adjusted for inflation.  Just stop.




Using what measure of inflation?

do they adjust for standard of living?


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Minimum Wage Effects On Employment [Re: Enlil]
    #19783373 - 04/02/14 10:13 AM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
The excess pool of labor is entirely due to illegal immigration. 


That's a ridiculous statement.




No it isn't.  If the jobs being done by illegal immigrants were being done by Americans we would be at an all time high in labor force participation.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Minimum Wage Effects On Employment [Re: Shins]
    #19783383 - 04/02/14 10:15 AM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
They are adjusted for inflation.  Just stop.




Using what measure of inflation?

do they adjust for standard of living?




Standard of living?  Standard of living is even better than inflation adjusted because so many things not counted are cheaper by far.  Everything electronic, for instance.  They are not factored into inflation and their costs have gone down, not just adjusted for inflation but absolutely.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Minimum Wage Effects On Employment [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19783462 - 04/02/14 10:39 AM (9 years, 9 months ago)

That's a completely different claim.  Your other claim was that the excess pool of labor is entirely due to illegal immigration.  This is clearly false.


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: Minimum Wage Effects On Employment [Re: Enlil]
    #19783535 - 04/02/14 11:01 AM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
That's a completely different claim.  Your other claim was that the excess pool of labor is entirely due to illegal immigration.  This is clearly false.




If its false then why can't you prove your statement with some facts?


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Minimum Wage Effects On Employment [Re: Stonehenge] * 1
    #19783559 - 04/02/14 11:11 AM (9 years, 9 months ago)

I didn't make the claim.  I've no burden of proof here.

The claim is, of course, absurd on its face.  An excess in labor pool is caused by many things, and for anyone to claim that illegal immigration is wholly responsible is beyond ridiculous.

Later retirement, more two-income families, reduction in domestic manufacturing jobs, and many other factors play into it.


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: Minimum Wage Effects On Employment [Re: Enlil]
    #19783611 - 04/02/14 11:28 AM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Thats not how it works, enlil. You can ask him to prove his statement but you went beyond that and made a statement of your own that what he said was false. You now have to prove your statement. No ducking, no dodging, the ball is in your court like it or not.


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Minimum Wage Effects On Employment [Re: Stonehenge]
    #19783623 - 04/02/14 11:32 AM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Kid, I don't "have to" do anything.


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Offlineqman
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Re: Minimum Wage Effects On Employment [Re: Enlil]
    #19783643 - 04/02/14 11:38 AM (9 years, 9 months ago)

http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/labor/news/2012/07/09/11898/5-facts-about-overseas-outsourcing/

"Manufacturing employment collapsed from a high of 19.5 million workers in June 1979 to 11.5 workers in December 2009"

"Between August 2000 and February 2007, manufacturing jobs were lost for a stunning 43 consecutive months"

"Manufacturing plants have also declined sharply in the last decade, shrinking be more than 51,000 plants, or 12.5 percent between 1998 and 2008"

"These stable middle class jobs have been the driving force of the US economy for decades and these losses have done considerable damage to communities across the country"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offshoring

"the impact of off-shoring on US jobs were between 150,000 and 300,000 per year from 2004-2015"

It's actually much higher, after a company closes a plant and eliminates 2000 US jobs, they continue to hire more (another 2000) workers in the years ahead, those are NOT counted as a lost US job.

Lets not forget the domino effect of shipping work out of the US, some estimate for every one high quality job sent out it costs 3-4 domestic jobs.


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: Minimum Wage Effects On Employment [Re: qman]
    #19783714 - 04/02/14 12:02 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Enlil, you asked him to prove his statement and then you think you don't have to prove yours. It shows that once again you are 'talking out of your ass' as you love to say to others. Back it up or shut up.


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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Offlinepsyconaught
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Re: Minimum Wage Effects On Employment [Re: Stonehenge]
    #19783768 - 04/02/14 12:16 PM (9 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
Enlil, you asked him to prove his statement and then you think you don't have to prove yours. It shows that once again you are 'talking out of your ass' as you love to say to others. Back it up or shut up.



thats not how the burden of proof works. If you claim that there are flying invisible spaghetti monsters and i say that i dont believe you its up to you to prove they exist. Not up to me to prove that they don't.


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