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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,470
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Minimum Wage Effects On Employment [Re: Stonehenge]
#19832860 - 04/12/14 01:39 PM (9 years, 9 months ago) |
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I don't see other nations as "hell", and there are dirtbags who don't follow the law in every nation...including right here in the good ole USA.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Minimum Wage Effects On Employment [Re: Enlil]
#19833035 - 04/12/14 02:08 PM (9 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: But they aren't negotiating from equal positions. One party is vulnerable because there is always the threat that the other party will report them. That is exploitation as opposed to what most of the morons think it is
That's the case now. That wouldn't be the case in my hypothetical because there would be nothing to report.
Of course, there would always be a power imbalance. There always is between employer and employee. The notion of "equal bargaining power" is aspirational at best.
I cannot believe any sane person would argue for open borders. Not just here but anywhere. In your hypothetical they would be competing with 100 million other border jumpers. Insane. There is a reason why no country on earth has what you want.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Minimum Wage Effects On Employment [Re: Enlil]
#19833041 - 04/12/14 02:09 PM (9 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: I don't see other nations as "hell", and there are dirtbags who don't follow the law in every nation...including right here in the good ole USA.
Yes there are and they get prosecuted when we catch them.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,470
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Minimum Wage Effects On Employment [Re: zappaisgod]
#19833082 - 04/12/14 02:18 PM (9 years, 9 months ago) |
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There would certainly be an influx of people....but equilibrium would be reached eventually. All of those people need food, shelter, clothing, etc...so it's not like they're going to not feed the economy. Granted, it won't be on the same level as most Americans.
I also realize that it's not a commonly discussed approach. It is a complete paradigm shift. I happen to think that is what we need. America was separated from the world by oceans and then by economic power. Oceans are irrelevant now and we're not likely to be the dominating economy we once were. It's time to face the future as it actually is instead of how we'd like it to be.
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Stonehenge
Alt Center


Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: Minimum Wage Effects On Employment [Re: Enlil]
#19833120 - 04/12/14 02:25 PM (9 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: I don't see other nations as "hell", and there are dirtbags who don't follow the law in every nation...including right here in the good ole USA.
And your job, before you lost it, was to get them off without punishment.
The open borders thing is totally whacko, every country in history which had that policy has gone under and none remain. Our now tenuous economic situation would go from bad to horribly worse. The massive burden that we are now dealing with from illegals would multiply many fold. People would have to carry a gun to keep from being robbed in the street. The min wage, would be lowered to $3
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Minimum Wage Effects On Employment [Re: Enlil]
#19833132 - 04/12/14 02:29 PM (9 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: There would certainly be an influx of people....but equilibrium would be reached eventually. All of those people need food, shelter, clothing, etc...so it's not like they're going to not feed the economy. Granted, it won't be on the same level as most Americans.
I also realize that it's not a commonly discussed approach. It is a complete paradigm shift. I happen to think that is what we need. America was separated from the world by oceans and then by economic power. Oceans are irrelevant now and we're not likely to be the dominating economy we once were. It's time to face the future as it actually is instead of how we'd like it to be.
What does an ocean have to do with the borders of Switzerland?
Face this. There will never be a world without borders and I think that is a good thing. I thought diversity was a positive.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,470
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Minimum Wage Effects On Employment [Re: Stonehenge]
#19833133 - 04/12/14 02:29 PM (9 years, 9 months ago) |
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Nah, the job was to force the state to meet it's burden of proof. Sometimes it could...sometimes it couldn't.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,470
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Minimum Wage Effects On Employment [Re: zappaisgod]
#19833140 - 04/12/14 02:32 PM (9 years, 9 months ago) |
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Zappa, believe me...I know there will never be an open border. I know the U.S. will no longer be the dominating economy of the world, and our standard of living will go down. I know that soon enough, America as we know it will no longer exist. That's all inevitable. We're all just arranging deck chairs on the Titanic at this point.
Still, as long as we're discussing issues as if they are going to be solved, I may as well throw in my two cents.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Minimum Wage Effects On Employment [Re: Enlil]
#19833156 - 04/12/14 02:37 PM (9 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: Zappa, believe me...I know there will never be an open border. I know the U.S. will no longer be the dominating economy of the world, and our standard of living will go down. I know that soon enough, America as we know it will no longer exist. That's all inevitable. We're all just arranging deck chairs on the Titanic at this point.
Still, as long as we're discussing issues as if they are going to be solved, I may as well throw in my two cents.
We could stay the dominant economy if we stopped coddling losers. We have the resources.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,470
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Minimum Wage Effects On Employment [Re: zappaisgod]
#19833159 - 04/12/14 02:38 PM (9 years, 9 months ago) |
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Maybe, but deep down inside, you know that isn't going to happen.
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Shins
Fun guy



Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 16,337
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Re: Minimum Wage Effects On Employment [Re: Enlil]
#19833302 - 04/12/14 03:05 PM (9 years, 9 months ago) |
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Its hilarous how these guys were calling Ron Paul such an "isolationist" look at them now.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Minimum Wage Effects On Employment [Re: Shins]
#19833380 - 04/12/14 03:23 PM (9 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shins said: Its hilarous how these guys were calling Ron Paul such an "isolationist" look at them now.
What are you babbling about? Are you equating birder control with isolationism? Get off the pipe, homes
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,470
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Minimum Wage Effects On Employment [Re: zappaisgod]
#19833398 - 04/12/14 03:27 PM (9 years, 9 months ago) |
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Seriously, zappa. Stop jacking my style. I looked the other way when I saw you use my trademarked, "Which is, of course, blah blah blah"...but this is going too far. I'm the only middle aged, educated white guy allowed to call people "Holmes"...and no...spelling it differently doesn't make it okay.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
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Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Re: Minimum Wage Effects On Employment [Re: Enlil]
#19833449 - 04/12/14 03:38 PM (9 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: Seriously, zappa. Stop jacking my style. I looked the other way when I saw you use my trademarked, "Which is, of course, blah blah blah"...but this is going too far. I'm the only middle aged, educated white guy allowed to call people "Holmes"...and no...spelling it differently doesn't make it okay.
Holmes and homes are different things. Holmes is Sherlock. homes is homeboy.
I remember many years ago when some sportswriter tried to list all the great quotes from George Allen as if they were original. Some gems I remember were "Our backs are against the wall" and "there is no tomorrow". Those were not original to George Allen, homes.
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Stonehenge
Alt Center


Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: Minimum Wage Effects On Employment [Re: zappaisgod]
#19833496 - 04/12/14 03:48 PM (9 years, 9 months ago) |
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Enlil tries to be ghetto but comes up short once again. Not one coherent argument to support the ridiculous notion of open borders. Perhaps an example of some place where it worked out well? Any example, even one? No, because its always been a disaster
Shins, i never once called ron paul isolationist. I think he has a lot of good ideas which of course is why the media demonizes him and the fools go along with it. It reminds me of how the media demonized nader and told the whopper that he was responsible for gore's loss. Gore was a fool, might have been better than bush jr but nader is not why he lost. Gore ran a stupid campaign and couldn't even win his own home state. Tell me nader caused that? If he had won his home state he would have won the election and then florida and scotus would not have entered the equation.
But no, they don't say stupid gore couldn't even hold his home state, they blame it all on nader. Its an excuse to tell the faithful fools not to vote third party which they should. Break the stranglehold of the duopoly over our govt. The only wasted vote is one that goes to d or r.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Re: Minimum Wage Effects On Employment [Re: Stonehenge]
#19833514 - 04/12/14 03:52 PM (9 years, 9 months ago) |
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I always love it when people whine about the complicated nature of the balloting in FLA 2000. Why is that only Democrats were too stupid to figure out who to vote for? I mean I know the answer but I'm surprised they would cop to it. Dems, too stupid to figure out a ballot.
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Shins
Fun guy



Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 16,337
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Re: Minimum Wage Effects On Employment [Re: zappaisgod]
#19835055 - 04/12/14 09:41 PM (9 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Shins said: Its hilarous how these guys were calling Ron Paul such an "isolationist" look at them now.
What are you babbling about? Are you equating birder control with isolationism? Get off the pipe, homes
You're talking about how you dislike having to compete with foreign workers and want to close the boarders and eliminate competition. That's Isolationist.
don't you want cheaper consumer prices? Isn't that how a free market works? Are you afraid you can't compete? You're sounding like a unionist / socialist
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Stonehenge
Alt Center


Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: Minimum Wage Effects On Employment [Re: Shins]
#19836700 - 04/13/14 09:15 AM (9 years, 9 months ago) |
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Shins, we are competing with foreign workers right now via imports from china and elsewhere. Those imports are keeping costs low. The only work that can't be taken over by offshore workers is service work that must be done here. Even that is being chipped away by call centers in india taking away jobs. If we allow all the dirtbags to come in then even those jobs will be lost. Before enlil got his job as a shill and after he was tossed out of his good job he got by by delivering pizzas.
When a country loses control of its borders its doomed. Take for example palestine. They lost control and could not keep out foreigners in the last century. How are they doing today? Some want the same fate for usa.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Re: Minimum Wage Effects On Employment [Re: Shins]
#19836991 - 04/13/14 10:38 AM (9 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shins said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Shins said: Its hilarous how these guys were calling Ron Paul such an "isolationist" look at them now.
What are you babbling about? Are you equating birder control with isolationism? Get off the pipe, homes
You're talking about how you dislike having to compete with foreign workers and want to close the boarders and eliminate competition. That's Isolationist.
This is one of the all time stupid distortions of the English language I have ever read.Quote:
don't you want cheaper consumer prices? Isn't that how a free market works? Are you afraid you can't compete? You're sounding like a unionist / socialist
As a taxpayer I don't want to subsidize lower consumer prices by providing billions and billions of dollars in services to illegal border jumping scum.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Re: Minimum Wage Effects On Employment [Re: Stonehenge]
#19836998 - 04/13/14 10:40 AM (9 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Stonehenge said: Shins, we are competing with foreign workers right now via imports from china and elsewhere. Those imports are keeping costs low. The only work that can't be taken over by offshore workers is service work that must be done here. Even that is being chipped away by call centers in india taking away jobs. If we allow all the dirtbags to come in then even those jobs will be lost. Before enlil got his job as a shill and after he was tossed out of his good job he got by by delivering pizzas.
When a country loses control of its borders its doomed. Take for example palestine. They lost control and could not keep out foreigners in the last century. How are they doing today? Some want the same fate for usa.
There was never a country of Palestine.
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